Discussion about Lifeforms
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Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172766Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172766Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
The main point i'd like to discuss is the function of the 5 different lifeforms, their cost effectiveness in comparison to marine cost effectiveness and how this corresponds with multiple players being the same together.
Because the way i see this game having been balanced is that the P-res system translates into a 'best bang for a buck' kind of scenario.
Where every lifeform doesn't just serve a function, but rather a universal skill set of both utility and support always in tandem with some sort of offensive abilities.
What i'd like this discussion to be about is whether or not we should slowly convert that into a more function driven description.
Now do understand that every lifeform does bring a new function with him, and it is completely up to the decisions of the player as to how to use these new functions.
But if i were to make a quick analogy, the dynamism of 'best bang for a buck' seems variable, because in my own personal experience i'm better as a skulk than that i am as an onos.
This could be because the onos being a rare sight all game but the last few minutes that i haven't really gotten the ropes of playing an onos.
But thats just my personal opinion.
i feel more at ease playing skulk than i do onos, where as an onos costs 75 P-res and just doesn't feel like it's that great.
If i'd have to rank every lifeform by its function right now it'd be this;
<b>Skulk </b>- Footsoldier(near perfect), Always has been, and i feel like i'm serving that function when i play as one. the suicide ability needs some work done, but it can potentially be functional.
<b>Gorge </b>- Support(near perfect), in every way shape and form. But then there's the curious tale of bilebomb, Which seems out of place on a weak and slow unit like that. Gorges are particularly big targets for some reason.
<b>Lerk</b> - a mix?, The problem with lerk is that despite gas being offensive, it feels like it is primarily used alongside friendly rushes to distract them, so more or less a supportive function. And then there's umbra, Which also feels like a supportive ability, Because well. It is. So does that make Lerk a fighter function? or defensive?
<b>Fade</b> - on a glance, You'd see an everyday run-of-the-mill assassin, Yet. he has vortex, Which seems so out of place and wonky on a character like that, it's supposed to be supportive, at least to the point of its purpose. Which from the top of my head i can only see as vortexing exo's or beacons. Curiously it still is an assassin, most people just forget vortex exists and never even use it.
<b>Onos</b> - The oh so mighty walking siege engine, but wait you're attacking marines 99% of the time. Jokes aside, he functions as a skulk, but more clunky, He has this whole hit and run guerrilla style game as a skulk would have, yet it feels as though he should be that near unstoppable, yet slow base-wrecking unit.
I'll end my little rant about it here for now, and pose a questionnaire for you folks, Do you think Lifeforms should be defined as function rather than all-round? or not?
Apart from that i'll post some small things i think may address this all-round to function thing.
Trade lerk umbra for gorge bilebomb. Fix bilebomb to not be spamable, but charge up.
Remove fade vortex, give fade the lerk gas to give him that much more sinister assassin-y feel.
Instead of lerk gas, lerks should be able to grab marines, use them to drop into environmental factors, but be a lot more heavy / liable to be broken free.
Slow the onos down by half, give him more life / armor, make his attack cleave or knockback marines, but do a lot more damage to buildings.
Because the way i see this game having been balanced is that the P-res system translates into a 'best bang for a buck' kind of scenario.
Where every lifeform doesn't just serve a function, but rather a universal skill set of both utility and support always in tandem with some sort of offensive abilities.
What i'd like this discussion to be about is whether or not we should slowly convert that into a more function driven description.
Now do understand that every lifeform does bring a new function with him, and it is completely up to the decisions of the player as to how to use these new functions.
But if i were to make a quick analogy, the dynamism of 'best bang for a buck' seems variable, because in my own personal experience i'm better as a skulk than that i am as an onos.
This could be because the onos being a rare sight all game but the last few minutes that i haven't really gotten the ropes of playing an onos.
But thats just my personal opinion.
i feel more at ease playing skulk than i do onos, where as an onos costs 75 P-res and just doesn't feel like it's that great.
If i'd have to rank every lifeform by its function right now it'd be this;
<b>Skulk </b>- Footsoldier(near perfect), Always has been, and i feel like i'm serving that function when i play as one. the suicide ability needs some work done, but it can potentially be functional.
<b>Gorge </b>- Support(near perfect), in every way shape and form. But then there's the curious tale of bilebomb, Which seems out of place on a weak and slow unit like that. Gorges are particularly big targets for some reason.
<b>Lerk</b> - a mix?, The problem with lerk is that despite gas being offensive, it feels like it is primarily used alongside friendly rushes to distract them, so more or less a supportive function. And then there's umbra, Which also feels like a supportive ability, Because well. It is. So does that make Lerk a fighter function? or defensive?
<b>Fade</b> - on a glance, You'd see an everyday run-of-the-mill assassin, Yet. he has vortex, Which seems so out of place and wonky on a character like that, it's supposed to be supportive, at least to the point of its purpose. Which from the top of my head i can only see as vortexing exo's or beacons. Curiously it still is an assassin, most people just forget vortex exists and never even use it.
<b>Onos</b> - The oh so mighty walking siege engine, but wait you're attacking marines 99% of the time. Jokes aside, he functions as a skulk, but more clunky, He has this whole hit and run guerrilla style game as a skulk would have, yet it feels as though he should be that near unstoppable, yet slow base-wrecking unit.
I'll end my little rant about it here for now, and pose a questionnaire for you folks, Do you think Lifeforms should be defined as function rather than all-round? or not?
Apart from that i'll post some small things i think may address this all-round to function thing.
Trade lerk umbra for gorge bilebomb. Fix bilebomb to not be spamable, but charge up.
Remove fade vortex, give fade the lerk gas to give him that much more sinister assassin-y feel.
Instead of lerk gas, lerks should be able to grab marines, use them to drop into environmental factors, but be a lot more heavy / liable to be broken free.
Slow the onos down by half, give him more life / armor, make his attack cleave or knockback marines, but do a lot more damage to buildings.
Comments
I'll end my little rant about it here for now, and pose a questionnaire for you folks, Do you think Lifeforms should be defined as function rather than all-round? or not?
Apart from that i'll post some small things i think may address this all-round to function thing.
<i>...stuff</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe life forms should be designed around fitting defined rolls but not be restricted to a point where cannot do anything outside of the role. Right now out of all the life forms I feel the fade has the most restrictions put on it on how you can use it effectively. I would love to see vortex changed or replaced with something like metabolize or acid rocket from ns1.
<b>Fade</b> - on a glance, You'd see an everyday run-of-the-mill assassin, Yet. he has vortex, Which seems so out of place and wonky on a character like that, it's supposed to be supportive, at least to the point of its purpose. Which from the top of my head i can only see as vortexing exo's or beacons. Curiously it still is an assassin, most people just forget vortex exists and never even use it.
<b>Onos</b> - The oh so mighty walking siege engine, but wait you're attacking marines 99% of the time. Jokes aside, he functions as a skulk, but more clunky, He has this whole hit and run guerrilla style game as a skulk would have, yet it feels as though he should be that near unstoppable, yet slow base-wrecking unit.
I'll end my little rant about it here for now, and pose a questionnaire for you folks, Do you think Lifeforms should be defined as function rather than all-round? or not?
Apart from that i'll post some small things i think may address this all-round to function thing.
Trade lerk umbra for gorge bilebomb. Fix bilebomb to not be spamable, but charge up.
Remove fade vortex, give fade the lerk gas to give him that much more sinister assassin-y feel.
Instead of lerk gas, lerks should be able to grab marines, use them to drop into environmental factors, but be a lot more heavy / liable to be broken free.
Slow the onos down by half, give him more life / armor, make his attack cleave or knockback marines, but do a lot more damage to buildings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are the only points I'm going to address as the rest seem fine to me.
Gorges are high priority target because they are support units. If you get rid of the support the troops start to die off. Plus once gorge gets Bile Bomb, they can wreck havoc on your bases pretty quickly if gone un-noticed.
Giving BB to lerks has been tested in Beta and found it was undesirable and had issues so it was moved back to Gorge.
Vortex is one feature that I just can't seem to understand why you would use it. Sure it can disable structures but for only for a very short period of time. I myself hardly ever use it.
I agree with the Onos analysis that he is suppose to be a siege tank but I also find myself fighting mostly Marines rather than busting bunkers.
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/150pxFW1b_KqgdzIF4MNxO1xBA-jrndZZ9-d_Ez0L1js/mobilebasic?pli=1" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/150pxFW1...bilebasic?pli=1</a>
The link at the bottom of the page will take you to this document:
<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Avf52Av12Mk3dG5Sa0VKU3RFR2NDWHNaR1hIVkQ3c2c" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=...WHNaR1hIVkQ3c2c</a>
Early game; Really powerful if played right. Picking off reinforcement and lone strayers.
Mid game; Helps prevent marines to push hives with spores until you can push for that third hive / while it's growing.
Late game; Great support (umbra) for every life form when pushing back marines and a near neccesity to end dual exo turtle.
However, Umbra doesn't really do that much to help you win as when 3 hives are up and fortified it's pretty much game. Very rarely does it matter to push into a base as gorges generally does it fine. It does however, reduce the required amount of onos to break a turtle. And if you're getting pressure at 3 hives it's generally by exos / arcs which gorges clear up much better than mass onos, which benefit most from umbra. However, that's more an overall game design problem, that marines rarely stands a chance at late game / onos explosion.