<!--quoteo(post=2060243:date=Jan 14 2013, 02:26 AM:name=Ciro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ciro @ Jan 14 2013, 02:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060243"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yep. Exo's are solo'able by celerity and carapace skulk or a good fade/lerk/onos; which the aliens should have (skill and res wise) if marines can barely hold two tech points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We're not talking about what can be done by skilled players. We're talking about how much you can affect the outcome of a bad team. I gave my example, and it has also worked, several times.
Also, read the text you quoted. Then read my reply, where I also quoted it.
<!--quoteo(post=2060236:date=Jan 13 2013, 08:09 PM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Jan 13 2013, 08:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I did mention turtling. As in, sitting in base. No need to build turrets when the team just sits in base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
right, and no alien team that has your marines pinned to base unable to expand in even 1 direction will fail to destroy your turtle before you can even get w2/a2 unless they fail much harder than your team does.
Assuming both teams, and commanders are 100% equal(That is, terrible teams, good commanders), the alien commander has a significant advantage. It depends on which team you are.
<!--quoteo(post=2060245:date=Jan 13 2013, 04:33 PM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Jan 13 2013, 04:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We're not talking about what can be done by skilled players. We're talking about how much you can affect the outcome of a bad team. I gave my example, and it has also worked, several times.
Also, read the text you quoted. Then read my reply, where I also quoted it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In your post you say, "Works, because aliens won't be organized enough to stop multiple dual exos. If they would be, we'd never get past weapon level 2 before losing. Aka getting absolutely crushed.". That makes it clear, if your method works, the was something wrong with that alien team too. That alien team kept 3 tech points and 6-8 nodes for at least 15 minutes, but couldn't finish your shotgun less, mine less, GL less, possibly turret less team? So, the aliens are smart enough to read maps and pin the marines, but can't get close to finishing in that 15 minute period? Something wrong on the alien team.
I believe your strategy can and has worked. I'm focusing on the conditions that allow it to work.
WildChicken's first two sentences, are pretty much correct, imo.
Marine comm can influence the game if the terrible foot-soldiers pay attention and follow orders. Even 3 out of 7 actually doing what you ask can help. But ultimately it all comes down to kills: if marines are able to kill the aliens at each engagement, they gain time to chop down a harvester or hive and build up their own infrastructure, and therefore win. If the marines can't kill aliens, or don't defend a RT when asked to, then even an inept bunch of aliens can win by single aliens taking down distant RTs.
Though I do make the point about marines unable to kill aliens, I do not mean to ridicule marine players with poor aim. I often find that in some games I can get many kills and get to the top of the scoreboard, while in others I do very poorly. There seems to be a 50-50 split whereas in other games I play, after enough practice, I am at the top of the scoreboard far more often than I am at the bottom.
As I have said many times before, Alien comm is far easier because he doesn't need anyone to build structures, and thanks to alien speed they can easily defend a res node being attacked, as long as they are able to use the minimap and/or listen to the commander's instructions to defend an RT in such and such a place.
The only time I've seen aliens lose is when they don't defend a hive that is under attack, don't defend RTs under attack, and especially if they don't constantly, in packs, harass the marines from the very beginning of the game. Even if they don't do these things, they can still win if as happened in a game today, the Marine comm doesn't build a spare IP, gets killed as he tries to defend single-handedly without telling anyone that main base is under attack (while team is attacking the last hive), and the base power gets taken down, and despite having 4 of the 5 tech points -- and being told to by all the dead marines -- none of the other marines build an extra IP, and they all get eaten.
<!--quoteo(post=2060253:date=Jan 14 2013, 03:28 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Jan 14 2013, 03:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060253"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->right, and no alien team that has your marines pinned to base unable to expand in even 1 direction will fail to destroy your turtle before you can even get w2/a2 unless they fail much harder than your team does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You could have said this in your first post instead of wasting time for 3.
I disagree. I've seen it happen several times, and why it happens is simple; aliens come one by one, and get killed one by one. Turtling marines are all in the same place, unlike when they're all out in the field.
Also stop spamming that logical fallacy of yours, if the alien team would fail harder than the marine team OBVIOUSLY THE SITUATION WOULDN'T EXIST.
<!--quoteo(post=2060256:date=Jan 14 2013, 03:31 AM:name=Ciro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ciro @ Jan 14 2013, 03:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060256"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In your post you say, "Works, because aliens won't be organized enough to stop multiple dual exos. If they would be, we'd never get past weapon level 2 before losing. Aka getting absolutely crushed.". That makes it clear, if your method works, the was something wrong with that alien team too. That alien team kept 3 tech points and 6-8 nodes for at least 15 minutes, but couldn't finish your shotgun less, mine less, GL less, possibly turret less team? So, the aliens are smart enough to read maps and pin the marines, but can't get close to finishing in that 15 minute period? Something wrong on the alien team.
I believe your strategy can and has worked. I'm focusing on the conditions that allow it to work.
WildChicken's first two sentences, are pretty much correct, imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, obviously there is something wrong with the alien team too. Did someone say we're discussing an uber bad marine team vs. [Team Uberpro] clanstack? I just assumed not, since that wouldn't make much of a convo.
<!--quoteo(post=2060279:date=Jan 14 2013, 04:45 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Jan 14 2013, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i thought it would be obvious. i certainly didn't think it would take 3 posts for you to finally get it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In your first post you speculated the alien team being even worse than the marine team even though they're beating the marine team.
Want me to translate that?
You were being stupid.
And I went out of my way to try and discuss. Seems you're still not interested doing that.
Thanks for your zero contribution. <!--quoteo(post=2060279:date=Jan 14 2013, 04:45 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Jan 14 2013, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-edit- whatever, this is derailing things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No sh*t. That's the zero contribution part.
<!--quoteo(post=2060036:date=Jan 13 2013, 11:17 PM:name=Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Salt @ Jan 13 2013, 11:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060036"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's no secret that Marine commanding requires the team to be a lot more cooperative than the Kharaa commanding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
just Yesterday:
me: phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse!
* 10 seconds later no one phased and the phase gate got destroyed (this is at the early stage of the game, no CC to beacon yet) *
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
For such people I dusted of the following shiny tactic from the old days. The FOOD tactic. Follow Orders Or Die.
I will let every single marine in my team, on a 1 IP respawn, die horribly if they dont listen, while I will be sure to tell them they will die if they dont listen. That one marine who DOES listen, gets a sea of medspam, preferably around the marines who do not listen. Since I wont be getting them shinies, I can spare the medspam res.
Also dont upgrade anything but passive buffs.
Now either they amass the brains to votekick you, which means you now got 2 soldiers on the field who know what they are doing. (which isn't that bad) Or more and more are starting to listen which at least gives a slimmer of chance to stand your grand as a team. The match was already lost, might as well make them learn something while we're at it.
Comments
We're not talking about what can be done by skilled players. We're talking about how much you can affect the outcome of a bad team. I gave my example, and it has also worked, several times.
Also, read the text you quoted. Then read my reply, where I also quoted it.
right, and no alien team that has your marines pinned to base unable to expand in even 1 direction will fail to destroy your turtle before you can even get w2/a2 unless they fail much harder than your team does.
It depends on which team you are.
Also, read the text you quoted. Then read my reply, where I also quoted it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In your post you say, "Works, because aliens won't be organized enough to stop multiple dual exos. If they would be, we'd never get past weapon level 2 before losing. Aka getting absolutely crushed.". That makes it clear, if your method works, the was something wrong with that alien team too. That alien team kept 3 tech points and 6-8 nodes for at least 15 minutes, but couldn't finish your shotgun less, mine less, GL less, possibly turret less team? So, the aliens are smart enough to read maps and pin the marines, but can't get close to finishing in that 15 minute period? Something wrong on the alien team.
I believe your strategy can and has worked. I'm focusing on the conditions that allow it to work.
WildChicken's first two sentences, are pretty much correct, imo.
Though I do make the point about marines unable to kill aliens, I do not mean to ridicule marine players with poor aim. I often find that in some games I can get many kills and get to the top of the scoreboard, while in others I do very poorly. There seems to be a 50-50 split whereas in other games I play, after enough practice, I am at the top of the scoreboard far more often than I am at the bottom.
As I have said many times before, Alien comm is far easier because he doesn't need anyone to build structures, and thanks to alien speed they can easily defend a res node being attacked, as long as they are able to use the minimap and/or listen to the commander's instructions to defend an RT in such and such a place.
The only time I've seen aliens lose is when they don't defend a hive that is under attack, don't defend RTs under attack, and especially if they don't constantly, in packs, harass the marines from the very beginning of the game. Even if they don't do these things, they can still win if as happened in a game today, the Marine comm doesn't build a spare IP, gets killed as he tries to defend single-handedly without telling anyone that main base is under attack (while team is attacking the last hive), and the base power gets taken down, and despite having 4 of the 5 tech points -- and being told to by all the dead marines -- none of the other marines build an extra IP, and they all get eaten.
You could have said this in your first post instead of wasting time for 3.
I disagree. I've seen it happen several times, and why it happens is simple; aliens come one by one, and get killed one by one. Turtling marines are all in the same place, unlike when they're all out in the field.
Also stop spamming that logical fallacy of yours, if the alien team would fail harder than the marine team OBVIOUSLY THE SITUATION WOULDN'T EXIST.
<!--quoteo(post=2060256:date=Jan 14 2013, 03:31 AM:name=Ciro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ciro @ Jan 14 2013, 03:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060256"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In your post you say, "Works, because aliens won't be organized enough to stop multiple dual exos. If they would be, we'd never get past weapon level 2 before losing. Aka getting absolutely crushed.". That makes it clear, if your method works, the was something wrong with that alien team too. That alien team kept 3 tech points and 6-8 nodes for at least 15 minutes, but couldn't finish your shotgun less, mine less, GL less, possibly turret less team? So, the aliens are smart enough to read maps and pin the marines, but can't get close to finishing in that 15 minute period? Something wrong on the alien team.
I believe your strategy can and has worked. I'm focusing on the conditions that allow it to work.
WildChicken's first two sentences, are pretty much correct, imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, obviously there is something wrong with the alien team too. Did someone say we're discussing an uber bad marine team vs. [Team Uberpro] clanstack? I just assumed not, since that wouldn't make much of a convo.
In your first post you speculated the alien team being even worse than the marine team even though they're beating the marine team.
Want me to translate that?
You were being stupid.
And I went out of my way to try and discuss. Seems you're still not interested doing that.
Thanks for your zero contribution.
<!--quoteo(post=2060279:date=Jan 14 2013, 04:45 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Jan 14 2013, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-edit- whatever, this is derailing things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No sh*t. That's the zero contribution part.
just Yesterday:
me: phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse! phase to warehouse!
* 10 seconds later no one phased and the phase gate got destroyed (this is at the early stage of the game, no CC to beacon yet) *
my team: dude, STFU!
The FOOD tactic.
Follow Orders Or Die.
I will let every single marine in my team, on a 1 IP respawn, die horribly if they dont listen, while I will be sure to tell them they will die if they dont listen.
That one marine who DOES listen, gets a sea of medspam, preferably around the marines who do not listen. Since I wont be getting them shinies, I can spare the medspam res.
Also dont upgrade anything but passive buffs.
Now either they amass the brains to votekick you, which means you now got 2 soldiers on the field who know what they are doing. (which isn't that bad)
Or more and more are starting to listen which at least gives a slimmer of chance to stand your grand as a team.
The match was already lost, might as well make them learn something while we're at it.
Nanites!