Really Boring Endgame
ift
Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179109Members
Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179109Members
Games play out different ways, but they end the same way - the pointless 15-minute turtle in the last remaining base. One team with whole map control, full tech and resources, and one team with nothing. I switch servers after a few minutes of that, because, yeah, so much fun.
It would be fine if the game just ended after getting a fourth base.
Someone's going to say it shouldn't take 15 minutes for an organized team to break through - no ######, this is pub. And it happens almost every game.
It would be fine if the game just ended after getting a fourth base.
Someone's going to say it shouldn't take 15 minutes for an organized team to break through - no ######, this is pub. And it happens almost every game.
Comments
It would be fine if the game just ended after getting a fourth base.
Someone's going to say it shouldn't take 15 minutes for an organized team to break through - no ######, this is pub. And it happens almost every game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's like saying chess should be over when you lose your queen...
Its a pub game so what do you expect?
So the loser team in ns2 needs to gg too or else... if people dont surrender/f4 they want to play this last stand, i guess.
Its a pub game so what do you expect?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. It's like saying chess should be over when you lose everything but a few pawns (1 base & 1 RT) and your opponent has 8 queens (4 bases & 8-10 RTs)... which it is. NS2 can stalemate on for quite a while, though.
The slower respawn in the next patch should help a little bit with that.
The slower respawn in the next patch should help a little bit with that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the majority of NS2 is FPS. People like shooting stuff. So even if the RTS portion is over they still want to keep shooting.
So unless people gg and F4 you're going to have a stalemate... its part of the game. I don't think there should be anything that forces the game end except winning or F4.
And if the other team has 8 "queens" it shouldn't stalemate that long...
As for marine turtling, it is a known and widely complained about issue. Changes are on the way to attempt to alleviate that.
A few days ago, I was playing on the alien team, the map was refinery. We Had containment, pipeline, the one next to containment (can't remember) and every res node except the marine base nodes. The whole map was covered in whips, crags and shades, while the marines were totally burned out, having lost a train of exos and ARCs just before. There was no way they could have recovered. Smelting was heavily sieged from conduit and controll was continualy pushed from pipeline. But no matter how hard we pushed, we couldn't break the marine's crossfire.
So, I went gorge with adrenaline and asked over voice if any other gorge would come with me to sneak behind enemy lines and bile bomb smeltings power node from the undefended side (very easy with camo). Well, it didn't work. Unfortunately no one came with me, I was killed before the power even went into emergency mode. People just prefered to run against the marine grenade wall over and over again.
I know my little anecdote is flawed; it's much easier to turtle in one base than two. But I guess what I tried to convey is: ppl seem to like the mindless trench-warfare or they just can't be bothered to make organized pushes. If anyone here ever played BF3, you should know that the most played map in this game was (and presumably is) Metro Conquest with 64 players. SPAM! Even if the average NS2 player is a spirited BF3 player, it just seems to be a thing alot of ppl find entertaining.
You have to show me one turtle that withstands the timed attack of three onos drawing fire and smashing the power node, one or two fades killing marines, two or three gorges biling and healing and one or two lerks gasing and obscuring the marines view.
And if your team isn't capable of ending it, you can always call for an f4 or as a last resort, quit the server.
I realized that I gradually play less and less NS2 because of this sucky game mechanic...
Had them contained most of the game but they were still able to beacon constantly and even pump out some EXOs. They eventually were able to get enough momentum to contest one of our hives and even bring it down twice; it was a back and forth battle for it.
Finally, we were able to get some well placed attacks on their bases and destroy the EXOs, but it still took another 15 minuets to end it after that. I think I will be taking a break from the game for a bit.
Had them contained most of the game but they were still able to beacon constantly and even pump out some EXOs. They eventually were able to get enough momentum to contest one of our hives and even bring it down twice; it was a back and forth battle for it.
Finally, we were able to get some well placed attacks on their bases and destroy the EXOs, but it still took another 15 minuets to end it after that. I think I will be taking a break from the game for a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mhhh, actually sounds like a pretty tense game. Sounds exactly like a game I had on Thursday and it was good fun. I like the match balance to be on a knive's edge.
Had them contained most of the game but they were still able to beacon constantly and even pump out some EXOs. They eventually were able to get enough momentum to contest one of our hives and even bring it down twice; it was a back and forth battle for it.
Finally, we were able to get some well placed attacks on their bases and destroy the EXOs, but it still took another 15 minuets to end it after that. I think I will be taking a break from the game for a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye, actually sounds like a pretty good game. I don't think NS is for you if the definition you just gave is a game which you don't find fun.
Had them contained most of the game but they were still able to beacon constantly and even pump out some EXOs. They eventually were able to get enough momentum to contest one of our hives and even bring it down twice; it was a back and forth battle for it.
Finally, we were able to get some well placed attacks on their bases and destroy the EXOs, but it still took another 15 minuets to end it after that. I think I will be taking a break from the game for a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like a fun game to me though. As long as marines can hold two cc's, it's still on.
I almost broke 100 kills and a teammate broke 1k score, I never have done the first or even seen the second so that was exciting.
aliens never really get the option unless they have plenty of evolved life forms to help defend.
Marines would have 4-5 exo's, 4 arcs and jp/weld support, toward one of two hives. Aliens have 2-3 upgrades and pRes. Through Onos, Bile Bomb and poorly thoughtout marine assaults, Aliens would win, off a base rush.
On the other side, Marines coming back with Arcs, weapons 3 and good phase gate placement.
Every endgame isn't a turtle.
It helps if you can be a ground leader and lead your team out of the hole; or in to finish the job, if you're winning. Usually, many players need a bit more direction than a comms assault/defend orders.
Make ~ 4 oni eggs somewhere in a dark corner, when the 4th one is done yell in voip "FREE ONI EGGS *PING* *PING* "
Oh yeah, AND FOCUS THE GODDAMN POWERNODE!!!!
unfortunately with the massive differences in skill there are many players who don't understand when a game is winnable or not, leading marines to turtle for ages while the aliens have no siege.
unfortunately with the massive differences in skill there are many players who don't understand when a game is winnable or not, leading marines to turtle for ages while the aliens have no siege.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This new unit could be merged Drifters: The Khamm multi-selects a handful of Drifters and merges them. This costs a lot of res and takes a while, so the merging, evolving Drifter sludge is an attractive target for a Marine team that does actually leave base. When the merged Drifter have finished evolving, it can consume a Hive at the cost of even more res to gain the doomsdayesque AoE ability. At this point, the Alien would have lost 1) most of its team res and 2) a Hive, but have gained a slow-moving unit that can level a Marine base in an instant if it manages to travel unscathed from the Hive spot to the Marine turtle. Again, a Marine team that leave base will be presented with an opportunity to destroy the expensive, merged, Hive-consuming Drifter slodge (<-- insert cool name here, like <i>Ravager</i>, or <i>Mucus Nuke</i>).
Like a whip with bombard?
When you sync it with an attack of your team, it generally works out well. Bombard deals ######tons of damage.
unfortunately with the massive differences in skill there are many players who don't understand when a game is winnable or not, leading marines to turtle for ages while the aliens have no siege.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this.
and to add, i have played some ~50 games with players at competitive levels - or you call it those old nsers who does scrim at least or even CAL/world cup. when the game is drag into very late game, it is indeed very boring. its all about detecting a hive rush or base rush. beacon phase in or run around the map for aliens. it could continue for 45 minutes. hives go up, hives go down, cc goes, cc goes down. not quite fun really. there is just no variety in tactics used. its basically a mass push - and then you lose one of your hives because everyone is in their base, a steal - end up with a bacon, or a random skulk lucky enough picking some unsecured spots. until someone in the team gets really boring make a mistake because he doesnt care ###### anymore, likely the marine comm, then the cheap comeback gets into the play.
where is the hive ninja and the pg ninja? split push? ninja sieges? hive teleport?
When you sync it with an attack of your team, it generally works out well. Bombard deals ######tons of damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played 100 hours NS2, not a lot, no, but anyway ... I've yet to see Bombard play a crucial role. I once Khammanded on ns_docking against a turtle, and my Whips at most annoyed the Marine team (they had a few ARC's). What really won the game was spamming Onos eggs and slowly wearing the Marines down. Tedious.
Since the entire Marine team have long range guns plus turrets and ARC's (also long range), you're going to need a lot of Whips... Better to just wear them down (and that is: see thread title).
So unless people gg and F4 you're going to have a stalemate... its part of the game. I don't think there should be anything that forces the game end except winning or F4.
And if the other team has 8 "queens" it shouldn't stalemate that long...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nothing you're saying makes any sense.
1. People like shooting stuff. And what do you think they're gonna do next round?
2. Shouldn't be anything that forces the game. And what do you think controlling 9 resource nodes is?
3. 8 queens. The problem isn't on the side of one team having 8 queens. The problem is that each turn they kill 12 pawns who immediately respawn, so the king is eternally protected even though the actual game is over.
Stalemates last too long period. The only reasonable solution is for a team that controls 90% of the map to decisively end the game. (Much the same way aliens on 1 hive are decisively ended.)
Had them contained most of the game but they were still able to beacon constantly and even pump out some EXOs. They eventually were able to get enough momentum to contest one of our hives and even bring it down twice; it was a back and forth battle for it.
Finally, we were able to get some well placed attacks on their bases and destroy the EXOs, but it still took another 15 minuets to end it after that. I think I will be taking a break from the game for a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That actually sounds like a <i>good</i> game. It's only those final 15 minutes (however long you held them at 1 tech point) that were the excessive part. Simply "containing them" most of the game but letting them get Exos isn't really grounds for the game ending there there.
unfortunately with the massive differences in skill there are many players who don't understand when a game is winnable or not, leading marines to turtle for ages while the aliens have no siege.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens can go after the Command Chair, Phase Gate (while a majority of marines are away, if they are holding a nearby area), Observatory (Beacon), and/or Arms Lab (No armor- 2 shot kills). All of these can be game-enders.
If the aliens have 3 hives, marine turtles are an alien strategy problem. It only takes an onos, lerk, and bile bombing gorge to kill the power or an armslab+observatory.
Aliens can't really turtle in the opposite situation, they starve to death.
It's the players, in my opinion, not the game.
Edit/Add: If a team can't finish the job with 3/4 tech points and full upgrades, it's a player/teamwork issue.
Pretty much though this was a player issue, as soon as I joined the alien team (when enough people quit to do so) we pretty much started rolling up the marines and then I got kicked for switching as I was finishing off deposit. I'm looking forward to more skilled players because yea that's the cause of never-ending mind numbing stale mates. It has nothing to do with power nodes or tech differences, it's all about inexperience.