Squads, Recoil, Weapon Attachments and more...
ma$$a$$ter
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165651Members
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165651Members
<div class="IPBDescription">immerse me...</div>A) Accuracy cone rather then pin-point (forced by recoil?)
1. Where you aim should never be where you hit 100% of the time with any weapon...
B) Accuracy loss on movement
2. You can't run and gun and expect to maintain 100% target accuracy..
C) Heavy machine-gun like a SAW was the upgrade
3. You should loose the ability to bunny hop across the battle with heavier weapons spraying and praying..
I personally think the marines strengths are in the combat of the squad, rather then the single marine.
Picture it.. 2-3 marines forced to burst fire to prevent accuracy loss over fire duration as they slowly creep down the hallway, a single marine with limited mobility but great suppressive firepower (the SAW) lays covering fire... More interesting combat tactics required, more interesting game play... IMHO...
But again, in my world you wouldn't be firing from a jetpack with a rifle either.. at least not expecting to hit whatever your shooting at.
At the current state I feel like the game lacks a certain depth..
I think an ability to "squad" your team as commander is important, putting up to 4 players in a squad and forcing them to stay together. Some kind of "downed" system should be in place to help with this.. Maybe for 10 seconds, that player is revivable by his squad. adding some sound to correlate, marine talk - like "covering fire!", "Man Down!" - something to immerse you into the battle...
Honestly the fact that upgrades are handed to every marine at spawn is rather bleh too. I think if you want weapon level 2, you walk your butt to the armory and go get it as if it was an upgrade.. hell aliens don't start with Carapace because it was researched..
It's a great game, the concept has so much to offer, it's just at the moment, lacking....
recoil suggestion :
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbFG7DGVsKA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbFG7DGVsKA</a> : Note the gun "walks" up the wall as well with the recoil.
Add a foregrip as an upgrade you can get at the armory to lower the recoil effect. weapon mods as upgrades? Sounds like a great addition..
1. Where you aim should never be where you hit 100% of the time with any weapon...
B) Accuracy loss on movement
2. You can't run and gun and expect to maintain 100% target accuracy..
C) Heavy machine-gun like a SAW was the upgrade
3. You should loose the ability to bunny hop across the battle with heavier weapons spraying and praying..
I personally think the marines strengths are in the combat of the squad, rather then the single marine.
Picture it.. 2-3 marines forced to burst fire to prevent accuracy loss over fire duration as they slowly creep down the hallway, a single marine with limited mobility but great suppressive firepower (the SAW) lays covering fire... More interesting combat tactics required, more interesting game play... IMHO...
But again, in my world you wouldn't be firing from a jetpack with a rifle either.. at least not expecting to hit whatever your shooting at.
At the current state I feel like the game lacks a certain depth..
I think an ability to "squad" your team as commander is important, putting up to 4 players in a squad and forcing them to stay together. Some kind of "downed" system should be in place to help with this.. Maybe for 10 seconds, that player is revivable by his squad. adding some sound to correlate, marine talk - like "covering fire!", "Man Down!" - something to immerse you into the battle...
Honestly the fact that upgrades are handed to every marine at spawn is rather bleh too. I think if you want weapon level 2, you walk your butt to the armory and go get it as if it was an upgrade.. hell aliens don't start with Carapace because it was researched..
It's a great game, the concept has so much to offer, it's just at the moment, lacking....
recoil suggestion :
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbFG7DGVsKA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbFG7DGVsKA</a> : Note the gun "walks" up the wall as well with the recoil.
Add a foregrip as an upgrade you can get at the armory to lower the recoil effect. weapon mods as upgrades? Sounds like a great addition..
Comments
Why do all the people who want to turn this in to COD with aliens always make a new thread like their ideas haven't been suggested before?
Now consider that, since marine vs skulk gameplay is largely balanced at the moment, introducing recoil, and decreasing marine accuracy in the process, will need to be counter balanced by reducing the number of shots it takes to kill a skulk. So if it currently takes less than a second to kill a skulk, how long will it take after recoil is introduced? Half a second? Less?
And for what? Something that the player can't even control. You are just going to get more spray and pray kills, and far fewer focused, skill based kills. Sounds like a lose lose to me.
Now consider that, since marine vs skulk gameplay is largely balanced at the moment, introducing recoil, and decreasing marine accuracy in the process, will need to be counter balanced by reducing the number of shots it takes to kill a skulk. So if it currently takes less than a second to kill a skulk, how long will it take after recoil is introduced? Half a second? Less?
And for what? Something that the player can't even control. You are just going to get more spray and pray kills, and far fewer focused, skill based kills. Sounds like a lose lose to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
recoil is not a bad thing as you think it is.
as if the game is not based on spray and pray -,-
as if the game is not based on spray and pray -,-<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The hallmarks of games with recoil are:
Slow targets
Death in 1-2 hits
Static placement while shooting (no run n gun)
How does this fit for natural selection at all? Recoil isn't a generally applicable mechanic. Sure, sometimes it works. this isn't one of those times.
I do not want any random luck###### at this game. Every spraying gun or tons of recoil increase the chance for noobs to hit something randomly and you want to add that?
This game is full of pure controls with nearly every gun (except shotgun) but for the shoty its okay.
If you do want some suppression effects you may enter skillcapfield 3 or worseplayerfield 3 - skillcap OVER NINETHOUSAND.
Slow targets
Death in 1-2 hits
Static placement while shooting (no run n gun)
How does this fit for natural selection at all? Recoil isn't a generally applicable mechanic. Sure, sometimes it works. this isn't one of those times.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
how are you so sure without actually trying it.
as if the game is not based on spray and pray -,-<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The hitreg is pretty troll at times, but seriously if you are spraying and praying, you are doing something wrong
Btw. with adding a Recoil (Without randomspray noobluck) would kill marines totaly - hiting a skulk while rifles or pistols get recoil in matter of alien skulks are moving extremly fast on walls n stuff with celerity you would never be able to control recoil + aiming at once.
You might can try that in a old HL1 Mod called "The Specialists" recoil only and now try to move + stunts + control recoil + aim in a much lower game speed - its freakin hard now add it into NS2 and try to hit any skulk while you cant actually hit an good moving skulk anyway - without aimbot good luck ... atm. its not a problem to survive 250 bullets of 5 marines while u just move around and troll those with leap + celerity
I've tried games with recoil, noobspread and worse still BF3's "suppression" which results in when being fired at, the bullets from your gun get scared and leave your rifle at random angles to where your cross hair is, because they are scared of other bullets coming at them. Your character of course doesn't even flinch. So you know what, I have an idea of how those mechanics play out. They result in players camping in bushes to make sure they see the enemy before the enemy sees them. Boring game play.
It wouldn't suit NS2 in the slightest. If you added spread / recoil to NS2's weapons you would drop the skill ceiling immensely. There would be stuff all difference between someone who can aim and some one who can't. Both would just point cross hair in general direction of skulk and hope. I guess that would make it easy to balance A0 W0 Marine vs vanilla skulks whilst at the same time ruining the game as we know it. If you are that dead set on trying it, go make a mod and test it then report back.
This game does not need to have recoil and would absolutely destroy the current gameplay.
Well choosing no recoil, even at the time NS1 was released, was no small decision to make. I'm quite confident it wasn't Charlie's first choice, and even if it was, I'm sure he tested it with recoil as well. In other words, I'm pretty sure the devs have tried it at some point during the extensive development of natural selection, and they decided it was better without.
Noobs.
L2P. Duhhh. Lore is key. Natural Immersion 2.
recoil mechanic is not that simple, counter strike disproves you any day.
There are three key differences to take into account here.
The first is headshots. A game like CS revolves around headshots. The best players will always land a headshot with their first bullet, meaning recoil is essentially irrelevant. After that, most players will simply spray, because they know only a single bullet is required to hit, and it doesn't matter where it hits, because it will be a kill.
The second is speed. Aiming and shooting in counter strike is essentially point and click. There is no tracking involved, because players don't move fast enough, and don't survive enough shots to require it. You simply place your crosshair on the target, click, and they die.
The third is movement, as I've said before. In counter strike, you do not move and shoot. In fact, you don't even stand and shoot. In most cases the game revolves around crouching as quickly as possible and taking your shot. NS is obviously not like this. In fact, its the opposite. You never crouch and shoot, and the people who don't move while they shoot are typically the worst players.
Since there are no headshots, and no instant kills, recoil would need to be considered in every encounter. Your first bullet would of course be unaffected, but every bullet after that would be. See, in games like CS, recoil isn't actually a "spray and pray" mechanic. In fact, it is specifically meant to prevent spray and pray. If you hold down the trigger, you won't be able to hit anything, so you must take controlled and spaced apart bursts, while taking cover in between. That is all well and good in a game where you can stop and take cover, and you can do bursts of fire. Now consider that in NS, this isn't really an option. Skulk biting my ankles? Oh don't worry I will just fire in bursts. Oh I'm being run down by a group of skulks? I will just take cover behind this crate and wait for my recoil to return to zero.
No, none of that plays into how NS should be. You don't stop firing in NS because you can't. You don't stop moving in NS because you can't. Recoil in theory, and even in practice is fine. Recoil itself does not promote spray and pray. Recoil in a game where you can't actively try to reduce the effect of recoil does promote spray and pray.
Countless others have proposed this idea and even more people have stood by the current model. It's how the Developers want it, it's how the Community wants it, and if you don't like it...go to a game where recoil actually matters or is a core to that specific games' gameplay.
The first is headshots. A game like CS revolves around headshots. The best players will always land a headshot with their first bullet, meaning recoil is essentially irrelevant. After that, most players will simply spray, because they know only a single bullet is required to hit, and it doesn't matter where it hits, because it will be a kill.
The second is speed. Aiming and shooting in counter strike is essentially point and click. There is no tracking involved, because players don't move fast enough, and don't survive enough shots to require it. You simply place your crosshair on the target, click, and they die.
The third is movement, as I've said before. In counter strike, you do not move and shoot. In fact, you don't even stand and shoot. In most cases the game revolves around crouching as quickly as possible and taking your shot. NS is obviously not like this. In fact, its the opposite. You never crouch and shoot, and the people who don't move while they shoot are typically the worst players.
Since there are no headshots, and no instant kills, recoil would need to be considered in every encounter. Your first bullet would of course be unaffected, but every bullet after that would be. See, in games like CS, recoil isn't actually a "spray and pray" mechanic. In fact, it is specifically meant to prevent spray and pray. If you hold down the trigger, you won't be able to hit anything, so you must take controlled and spaced apart bursts, while taking cover in between. That is all well and good in a game where you can stop and take cover, and you can do bursts of fire. Now consider that in NS, this isn't really an option. Skulk biting my ankles? Oh don't worry I will just fire in bursts. Oh I'm being run down by a group of skulks? I will just take cover behind this crate and wait for my recoil to return to zero.
No, none of that plays into how NS should be. You don't stop firing in NS because you can't. You don't stop moving in NS because you can't. Recoil in theory, and even in practice is fine. Recoil itself does not promote spray and pray. Recoil in a game where you can't actively try to reduce the effect of recoil does promote spray and pray.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so what you described supposed to be counter strike? why am i even discussing?
so what you post supposed to be English? why am i even discussing?