Hidden Mod

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Comments

  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    Nice work, gonna try it out if I can find a server.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited February 2013
    Beta play test today. Watch it on youtube in HD to appreciate the new effects.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhNqrEBQpts

    Fade has too much health. It's really hard to win with a small marine team. Could the health scale with the player count?
  • HuzeHuze Insightful Join Date: 2003-11-12 Member: 22724Members, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 477 Fully active user
    I just played a lot of this. It's really fun! You've done a great job. I think you should turn more lights on in the maps though, he's actually too easy to see in the darkness.

    Also we noticed that Black and Deluxe armor marines don't show up red in Alien Vision, making them significantly more powerful.

    Keep up the good work!
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    Yepp that was annoying. They're almost as hard to see as the fade.
  • ellnicellnic Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72559Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 915 Advanced user
    I remeber back when the Hidden stats where up and i played for days upon days to get in the top ten. Fianly got 4th rank and they took it down :( I felt like It all went to waste. Still play the hidden a fair bit, would love to see how this tures out though
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited February 2013
  • KwisatzHaderachKwisatzHaderach Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143872Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 368 Fully active user
    Played it again this sunday with around 6 ppl. We had a great time and overall liked the changes you made to the last build.
    There are a few points that we felt could use some tweaking though.


    - sticking to walls
    it just doesn't work very well. Usually I drop a meter or two after clinging to a wall. It feels as if the fade was too heavy to hold on to walls and starts slipping. It would also be really awesome if you could move very slowely while sticking to walls/ceilings.

    - getting into vents
    for some reason this is much harder to achieve than in the regular game.

    - buying weapons
    works just as it should when pressing "B".
    When using the armory though you are stuck looking in the same direction all the time. You can still move in every direction, but can't free look anymore. We had to use the concerned persons as living shields and bait :)

    - mines
    they are too strong atm, even with the area restrictions. With five or four marines out of six going for mines and placing them at bottlenecks or to defend an area, it wears down the fade before he even engaged. I know, the fade should try to avoid them or bile them (bile is really nice btw, both for the fade and for the marines as well --> spooky). But with the darkness and the fast movement speed of the fade it is impossible to see them most of the time. The best way to solve this imo would be to make mines highlighted by alien vision just like the marines.
    This way they would still be area denial or would force the fade to reveal himself by biling them and it would make spamming them less efficient.

    - the distortion/creepy sound effects when fade is near
    while there is general agreement in our group how brilliant and scary they look/sound and how well done they are, we also felt that it spoils the fun for both sides too much. Knowing when getting attacked by the fade just takes tension out of the game for marines. It's too obvious. For the fade it just limits its tactical posibilities: I had to change from an ambush-oriented gameplay to a hit and run kind of gameplay. No waiting for your prey anymore :(
    This change along with the OP mines also meant that the fade only won once (first round) out of maybe 12.
    I really don't know how to fix this (if you think it needs fixing at all), because the effects also provided some hilarious moments (high pitched screams of "he is right hereeeeeee!!!"). Maybe someone can come up with an idea how to have the best of both worlds...


    All in all, we had heaps of fun playing this mod and loved the changes, the added sounds and costumized fade/weapons! Thanks and keep up the good work!
  • RioRio Join Date: 2005-01-28 Member: 38716Members Posts: 58 Advanced user
    edited February 2013
    Played it again this sunday with around 6 ppl. We had a great time and overall liked the changes you made to the last build.
    There are a few points that we felt could use some tweaking though.
    Thanks for your feedback, I'm glad that you enjoy playing it.

    I will take a look at the wall grip thing you mentioned. I'm also working on a way to keep the distortion effect but don't reveal the Fades location at the same time. This will probably also involve highlighting mines.

    I'm aware that the Fade isn't that powerful at the moment, especially against lots of marines, but I'm trying to figure out a way to make him better without just changing his health or damage.
    Post edited by Rio on
  • shonanshonan Join Date: 2013-01-28 Member: 182562Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 426
    I loved Hidden Source back in the days, good to see something new based on it :)
    Steam Lagshop :: Natural Selection 2
    http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=4920
    Jalaman
  • bp2008bp2008 Join Date: 2012-11-28 Member: 173581Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 243 Fully active user
    Rio wrote: »
    I'm also working on a way to keep the distortion effect but don't reveal the Fades location at the same time.

    Some ideas:

    1. Enable it briefly for all marines when any marine is hit or killed by the fade. Should happen often enough and won't give away the location.
    2. Not sure if this is possible, but make the intensity of the distortion effect increase for each dead marine.
    7P1fgAb.jpg
  • thefonzthefonz Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members Posts: 491
    It's really cool to see a hidden-style mod for NS2. I can't wait to try it. If you are still takin name suggestions:

    The Hunted

    It reflects both teams nicely.

    As far as time limits, why not both teams lose if time expires? The marines have 15 minutes to get the job done or the facility will be destroyed to prevent the fade's escape. Likewise the fade needs to kill all the marines in order to get out.
  • FaustFaust Join Date: 2004-11-18 Member: 32852Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 255 Advanced user
    edited February 2013
    Fun mod. I was playing last night, and the server filled up pretty fast. There are serious balance issues when the fade has to face more then 5-6 marines (most of the rounds I played had 12 people on marines). I'd suggest doing what a similar game mode in Aliens vs. Predator 2 did: set up a ratio of fades to marines. I'd recommend something like 1 fade to 4 marines, or maybe 1:5, or even 1:6 (maybe make it alterable in config by server admins?). For example. In our game where there were 12 marines, there would be 3 fades if it was the ratio was 1:4. If it was 1:5 or 1:6, there would only be two. The only other easy way to balance this would be limiting team sizes (I think in the hidden, the marine team was limited to 5 player slots).

    I also agree that mines seem too strong. I'd suggest taking them out. Maybe code in laser trip alarms like in the hidden?
  • RioRio Join Date: 2005-01-28 Member: 38716Members Posts: 58 Advanced user
    New version!

    added fade vision, which behaves like the default alien vision
    improved alien vision: alien vision now causes the distortion effect when activated and shows marines through walls and on the map
    decreased wall grip slide time to 0.2, down from 0.7 (so the fade doesn't slide down that much, when gripping on walls)
    updated the distortion effect
    updated the default round time to 8 minutes, up from 5 minutes
    fixed the hive vision not displaying all armor types
    increased the volume on the growl sound a bit
    tweaked the fade cloak amount
    tweaked the health scaling of the fade
    peregrinusKwisatzHaderach
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    Lots of kills do come from mines. It feels cheap when you get a mine kill, and looking out for them as a fade isn't much fun. Maybe they could do less damage, or they could render the fade visible for 5 seconds (cos nanites).
    Faust
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited February 2013
    Feedback from about 10 rounds of the new build:

    - alien vision on/off mixed with screen distortions is cool. It just needs to be clear that when you have it activated, marines will see and hear the distortions. Also, with it turned off, it's very very hard to see marines. When it's on, the distortions actually make it harder for marines to see you...so there isn't much benefit of turning alien vision off - unless you want to hide. Without alien vision on you can't see mines...so it has limited use.

    - We had about 15 players. It was very hard for the fade to kill everyone. Even a skilled fade can't avoid losing health, so by the time it has one or two humans left, often it will only have <50hp. So some way to regen a bit of health would be good. Like in HL2: Hidden where the Hidden can get a little hp by 'eating' corpses. Kinda hard in NS2 because the corpses disintegrate. Maybe a vampire attack?<br>
    - Marines need some reason to walk around the map.

    - Fade needs an anti-camping ability. I like the idea of a smoke bomb. The fade drops it, and it slowly builds up a cloud of smoke (the shade ink effect would do), so any marine left in it will be blind unless they move on.

    - Bile bomb works well enough. Can you change the colour to black and give it a creepy sound effect?

    - Can you make the fade automatically crouch when he grips a wall? So he will be stealthier.

    - Bug? Marines can hear when the fade turns alien vision on/off.

    - Can someone make a quick mod of the fade model, to make the mod more unique? I always thought it would be cool for this mod to have the fade model with a marine's head. Or, marine body with fade head. Fighting a mutant is more frightening than fighting a monster alien.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members Posts: 1,171 Advanced user
    edited March 2013
    Yes yesyesyesyesyes, do it!

    Dont forget to let it hang up bodies of its victims from the ceiling.
  • eisigereisiger Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75159Members Posts: 85
    Don't remember most of The Hidden looking like Doom 3
  • HeymanHeyman Join Date: 2005-03-29 Member: 46895Members Posts: 406
    Try giving the fade some passive regeneration or health on kill. Regeneration should be slow but effective for hit and run attacks. Health on kills may give the same effect.
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited March 2013
    There's a 24 player server called 'Russia Fade Mod' now, 23 marines vs 1 fade, ff on, lots of team attacking/killing, and plenty of camping.

    http://youtu.be/gFbdWmu_9Tw
    Post edited by peregrinus on
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 2,207
    I tried that server just now, I think 24 players is a bit much for this gamemode, and the stock maps are far too big. Can't comment much on the rest to be honest. At least the Russians seemed to be having fun :)
    Steamname: Unkn0wn Gamename: David Bowie
  • FrizzlecatFrizzlecat Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183752Members Posts: 54 Fully active user
    edited April 2013
    I think you should use the "beep" device from the "Forsaken" mod, (you can ask its creator, I'm sure he won't mind). It's basically a beep which tone changes when an alien is nearby. It would add a lot to your mod.

    This. Except I was thinking the Marines could have the scanner from the Aliens movie. Whereas in the Aliens movie, the beep tends to go..... Beep............ Beep...............Beep...............Beep............... for suspense, I think the NS2 one should pretty much just go Beep.. Beep.. Beep Beep Beep BeepBeepBeepBeepBeepBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!!!!!! Since a Fade with celerity is so fucking fast, there's no time for suspense, just shitting your pants.

    By the time the Fade is within range of the portable scanner, and you hear that first beep, it's already in your face slicing your throat. Not to mention, oh guys this is fucking perfect, as the poor Marine who's been targeted, with the Fade right on him trying to slice his entrails out, the scanner would be in a constant high-picthed BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP (as above) due to the close proximity, WHICH would NOT ONLY cause terror in the Marine because he's got this high pitched whine distracting him while he's being sliced on BUT ALSO it symbolically represents that either he is about to die, like his heart has stopped, when rigged up to a hospital bed, or his heart has already stopped and only the next few seconds will determine whether he lives or dies! Of course, if the Fade dies, then the beeeeeeep stops, which signifies relief and your heart getting back to normal again. Wow, I'm scared already.
    peregrinus
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,745 Advanced user
    Suggestion: When there are two or less marines, give them weapons 3. If three marines, give them weapons 2. If four marines, give them weapons 1. If four marines, give them weapons 1. If five or more marines, give them weapons 0.

    This would help scale the game better with player counts. When trying to populate a server, there are some pretty small games.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    peregrinusGobi
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    james888 wrote: »
    Suggestion: When there are two or less marines, give them weapons 3. If three marines, give them weapons 2. If four marines, give them weapons 1. If four marines, give them weapons 1. If five or more marines, give them weapons 0.

    This would help scale the game better with player counts. When trying to populate a server, there are some pretty small games.

    Yes yes yes yes yes!

    Whenever I've gone recently I've seen Fades with super high victory/loss stats. Even against 10 marines they can pick off the less skilled players and then have enough health to go straight at the remainder.
  • KwisatzHaderachKwisatzHaderach Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143872Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 368 Fully active user
    james888 wrote: »
    Suggestion: When there are two or less marines, give them weapons 3. If three marines, give them weapons 2. If four marines, give them weapons 1. If four marines, give them weapons 1. If five or more marines, give them weapons 0.

    This would help scale the game better with player counts. When trying to populate a server, there are some pretty small games.

    Afaik currently the health of the Fade scales with the amount of players, which is pretty much the same thing as scaling the marines damage. Your suggestion has the advantage of fitting in nicely with the game's mechanics but also has the drawback of not being as linear as the fade-health scaling system.
    Assuming marines all equip shotties and fire one bullet: 2 marines with w3 = 66dmg | 3 m with w2 = 90dmg | 4 m with w1 = 112dmg | 5 m with w0 = 125dmg | 10 m with w0 = 250dmg. To cut it short: the more marines there are the harder it would be for the fade.

    Or did you mean to add the w0-3 scaling on top of the existing health-scaling?


    Btw: the current build plays very well and balanced. We once again had a lot of fun last weekend. Just one thing: would it be possible to turn down the bloom when flashlights overlap? Currently it's best to switch off flashlight, because you can't see shit when someone shines a flashlight somewhere. It's a shame really, because it would make it so much more atmospheric.
  • GobiGobi Join Date: 2013-05-28 Member: 185390Members Posts: 8
    Hi everybody!!
    I had lots of fun playing (a lot!) this mod, but there are a few changes that I hope will help this mod become better and better.
    I'm currently working on improving this mod, I hope this revised version of "THE FADEN" will soon be online.

    Here is a list of changes already implemented:

    -Removed Grenade launcher
    -Shotgun only have 10 ammos, 8 in clip and only 2 for reload.
    -Flamethrower effects are now longer (the fade burns longer and takes more damages)
    -Marines don't see the damages done to the fade (to avoid dead people saying the damages given before death)
    -Fade stills see the damages given to the weak marines ;)
    -Bile bomb cost more energy
    -Friendly fire effects increased from 60% to 90 %

    Changes to come:
    -Fade must kill every 100s (will be adjusted after testing) or starts loosing hp and cannot cast bile bomb until next kill
    -Marines will have to build nodes on the map. The order in which the nodes must be built will be random.
    -When built, nodes will provide light.
    -When all nodes are built, marines will win (not sure about it now, maybe one exo dropped and full ammo an health to start chasing the FADE :p)

    Other ideas:
    -Each node built will resurrect a marine.
    -Because shotgun ammo are limited, if killed, the weapon may lay on the ground instaed of beeing destroyed
    -Fade may eat marine to regen
    -Flamethrower may burn the bodies, avoiding the FADE to eat corpse and regen.
    The flamethrowers will be limited in numbers.

    And that's just the beginning ;)
    I'm open to any suggestions and critics about the above ideas.

    Thanks for reading despite my bad english :)
    Gobi
  • KwisatzHaderachKwisatzHaderach Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143872Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 368 Fully active user
    Hey! Good on ya' for helping to make this mod even better!

    Tbh, I don't like most of you suggestion though (don't be angry, k?). I will try to elaborate when i have more time to write.

    I love this part:
    Gobi wrote: »
    Hi everybody!!

    -Marines will have to build nodes on the map. The order in which the nodes must be built will be random.
    -When built, nodes will provide light.
    -When all nodes are built, marines will win (not sure about it now, maybe one exo dropped and full ammo an health to start chasing the FADE :p)

    Gobi

    This needs to be put into the mod asap! I always felt there was a lack as to the marines purpose. This is an incredible idea that would make the game so much better. Please implement!
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    edited May 2013
    Gobi wrote: »
    Hi everybody!!
    I had lots of fun playing (a lot!) this mod, but there are a few changes that I hope will help this mod become better and better.
    I'm currently working on improving this mod, I hope this revised version of "THE FADEN" will soon be online.

    Here is a list of changes already implemented:

    -Removed Grenade launcher
    -Shotgun only have 10 ammos, 8 in clip and only 2 for reload.
    -Flamethrower effects are now longer (the fade burns longer and takes more damages)
    -Marines don't see the damages done to the fade (to avoid dead people saying the damages given before death)
    -Fade stills see the damages given to the weak marines ;)
    -Bile bomb cost more energy
    -Friendly fire effects increased from 60% to 90 %

    I agree, no point for the grenade launcher in its current form.

    Shotgun ammo idea is interesting

    Not sure about the flamethrower...

    Good idea to remove damage numbers for marines.

    Yes, good to make bile bomb expensive.

    And I like FF going up, maybe not so high as 90%.
    Gobi wrote: »
    Changes to come:
    -Fade must kill every 100s (will be adjusted after testing) or starts loosing hp and cannot cast bile bomb until next kill
    -Marines will have to build nodes on the map. The order in which the nodes must be built will be random.
    -When built, nodes will provide light.
    -When all nodes are built, marines will win (not sure about it now, maybe one exo dropped and full ammo an health to start chasing the FADE :p)

    Other ideas:
    -Each node built will resurrect a marine.
    -Because shotgun ammo are limited, if killed, the weapon may lay on the ground instaed of beeing destroyed
    -Fade may eat marine to regen
    -Flamethrower may burn the bodies, avoiding the FADE to eat corpse and regen.
    The flamethrowers will be limited in numbers.

    And that's just the beginning ;)
    I'm open to any suggestions and critics about the above ideas.

    Thanks for reading despite my bad english :)
    Gobi

    Yea, good to make fade loose hp to stop boring rounds.

    Many have wanted objectives in the mod since it started...good plan.

    Randomized powernodes is a good way to make marines travel through the map, and make the rounds more diverse.

    Maybe you could have 5 pieces of an exo around the map which marines can assemble. It gives marines something to aim for so they aren't sitting around waiting all the time.

    I wouldn't let marines win if they just build all powernodes...that's boring for everyone. Someone has to be killed lol.

    Each node ressurects a marine? Seems potentially OP.

    Love the burning bodies to stop Fade eating them!!!! Fantastic.

    Your English is perfect :)

    ...except 'The Faden' doesn't make sense. It would have to be The Faded.

    'The Faded' isn't a good title. It's too passive. I prefer 'The Vanished'.
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 574 Advanced user
    How would someone go about making a map for this? Any special entities? Do I add power nodes, or even lights?
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,745 Advanced user
    james888 wrote: »
    Suggestion: When there are two or less marines, give them weapons 3. If three marines, give them weapons 2. If four marines, give them weapons 1. If four marines, give them weapons 1. If five or more marines, give them weapons 0.

    This would help scale the game better with player counts. When trying to populate a server, there are some pretty small games.

    Afaik currently the health of the Fade scales with the amount of players, which is pretty much the same thing as scaling the marines damage. Your suggestion has the advantage of fitting in nicely with the game's mechanics but also has the drawback of not being as linear as the fade-health scaling system.
    Assuming marines all equip shotties and fire one bullet: 2 marines with w3 = 66dmg | 3 m with w2 = 90dmg | 4 m with w1 = 112dmg | 5 m with w0 = 125dmg | 10 m with w0 = 250dmg. To cut it short: the more marines there are the harder it would be for the fade.

    Or did you mean to add the w0-3 scaling on top of the existing health-scaling?


    Btw: the current build plays very well and balanced. We once again had a lot of fun last weekend. Just one thing: would it be possible to turn down the bloom when flashlights overlap? Currently it's best to switch off flashlight, because you can't see shit when someone shines a flashlight somewhere. It's a shame really, because it would make it so much more atmospheric.

    Really? I did not know, or even notice in the games I was playing last night. I played for about 2 hours and the server player count ranged from 3-12. I got my idea because it didn't seem to matter who was fade, the fade always won when against 4 or less marines.

    I didn't think of health which is more linear and better in concept.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
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