On first and second hive upgrades
CodeCowboy
Join Date: 2012-09-21 Member: 160235Members
Join Date: 2012-09-21 Member: 160235Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Because a good commander bases it on his team</div>I love going shade first on public servers. why?
Because it allows sucky players a chance at closing.
It forces the team to slow down which can help with grouping up.
It allows a little rambo-ing by the better players.
Large servers almost demand Shift first.
If the team is on a large map and doing well then celerity allows them to control more of the map. If the team sucks then extra speed just takes them one by one to their deaths faster.
I almost always go crag second, regardless.
a good cammo skulk with regen can completely shut down a passage.
Thoughts?
(Please don't insert random competitive play comments. I am speaking about play on public servers.)
Because it allows sucky players a chance at closing.
It forces the team to slow down which can help with grouping up.
It allows a little rambo-ing by the better players.
Large servers almost demand Shift first.
If the team is on a large map and doing well then celerity allows them to control more of the map. If the team sucks then extra speed just takes them one by one to their deaths faster.
I almost always go crag second, regardless.
a good cammo skulk with regen can completely shut down a passage.
Thoughts?
(Please don't insert random competitive play comments. I am speaking about play on public servers.)
Comments
Don't get me wrong, I love going shade too, but what I see the aforementioned "sucky" players frequently doing with it is hiding in the midfield rather than pressing the attack. Aggressive teams with camo are great, sneaking past the frontline and chewing up expansion res nodes, creeping in hordes into enemy positions and all attacking at once. Teams that want to play WaitAndChomp are only encouraged to do so by giving them Camo, and the marines promptly have 4-5 resource towers (meaning plenty of scans and observatories). It's kind of like giving Celerity to suicide rushers, it just lets them burn up your supply of eggs faster.
I'm partial to having shift by 2nd hive regardless. Adrenaline for the lerk/gorge/fade is really useful.
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It forces the team to slow down ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the exact reason I don't go Shade first in pubs. The last thing I need is people reacting more slowly to what I'm calling out, as it already takes an eternity for them to do so. It encourages people to sit near base camo'ed instead of pushing and harassing the marines.
I'm finding myself going Crag on some of the games where close spawns are possible (summit/tram) as it helps to defend against hive rushes or ninjas going for upgrades and it seems to be working fairly well. But on a map like Mineshaft going Shift is definitely my favorite strat. The map's just too big and I find it beneficial to hide a Shift in Central Access or Crusher or Deposit if I can get it in there. Getting your skulks Celerity is also very advantageous to get them back into the fight on a map that large.
Unless the team you are playing on it highly competent and coordinated, shade first is almost always a loss. Obviously in pubs you see Shift first almost every time but I actually think that crag is the best starter.
Camo imo is very strange because it's really only useful early game, but unfortunately early game is when you really need the most mobility, and it takes that completely away. So the only other time you can get it is going to be 2nd or 3rd and by the 2nd you'll probably need the regen or carapace to counter upgrades. Then by the 3rd hive camo is nearly 100% useless since at that point you're either winning or about to be rushed by a bunch of exos or jps. What I would rather see, is if people insist on getting a shade first, at least get silence and rush leap so you have mobility and an upgrade that is considerably more useful.
Why do I say silence is more useful? Well simply because you can't jump, attack, or leap with camo on. As soon as you do anything really you lose it and an obs counters it completely. Silence on the other hand, never turns off and since every player uses sound to track a target to some degree it's significantly more destructive.
Or you take Shift as 2nd hive and everybody dies to single marine shotgunners until you can get 3rd hive.
Silence encourages movement at full speed and attacking from behind without being noticed.
Camo encourages slowly sneaking towards marines and once you do something, everyone knows you are there, so either you run away and reapeat or you die and respawn.
Yet, I still prefer early regen as a skulk.
I'm finding myself going Crag on some of the games where close spawns are possible (summit/tram) as it helps to defend against hive rushes or ninjas going for upgrades and it seems to be working fairly well. But on a map like Mineshaft going Shift is definitely my favorite strat. The map's just too big and I find it beneficial to hide a Shift in Central Access or Crusher or Deposit if I can get it in there. Getting your skulks Celerity is also very advantageous to get them back into the fight on a map that large.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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this is the post to read
Cammo allows early RT domination which allows an EASY second hive, and in my experience a relatively easy 3rd. I'd say I win 75-80% of the games I comm as shade first. Similar ratio on games I'm playing when comm does the same.
I love the cammo as a player because it allows me to be more effective solo or in small groups rather than massive coordination if the team is sucking it up in general.
Really? As a skulk, celerity is the first thing I want. Get's you around the map faster and gives you that extra edge in closing the distance to a marine.
After that I'd like the crag hive second, since higher lifeforms will start to pop up who need the extra survivability. Camo first is good for trolling marines, and can win you games, but you'll need to decide the game early on. If you fail to gain map control, and don't go on to get 3 hives, you're gonna suffer massively in the late game.
Shade hives are for a gamble, usually you need to maximize your camo advantage early in the game in order to make it worthy. If you fail to hit enough rts, res, or frag marines you'll be set back by miles until your able to have the powerful cel-regen-cara combos.
The shift hive is the least useful in terms of being a boon to combat engagements. While celerity is good for speeds of travel, walljumping can be equally as effective in most circumstances, and even still celerity does not work in combat. One bullet drops the speed off, and there is still a speed ramp up. Adrenalin is probably the most niche upgrade of all of them, only being useful for certain lifeforms in rare circumstances.
With those three choices, a commander needs to think about which choice and attack strategy players should use. If you're looking for a big early payoff, go shade and capitalize. If your looking for the best well-rounded hive invest in a Craig hive, as it gives the biggest benefit to all lifeforms. Lastly you'd have shift, while its good for public play, in the end the benefits it grant are the least effective in combat, and in general adrenalin helps only in rare circumstances,
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USEFUL ADVICE FROM COACH BITEY <3!</b>
Problem is once your guys get resource for onos. You are denying them carpace. An onos without carpace is just a bullet magnet waiting to die.
If you can't get the 3rd hive up, you basically going to get alot of pain when Exo Train hits