<!--quoteo(post=2037705:date=Nov 29 2012, 10:16 PM:name=Burdock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burdock @ Nov 29 2012, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I will take first things first, why do you think 100%invis when still would be useless? I can come up with ways this would be better then the one we have now.
Lets say old-style of camo when moving(90%invis)(note, this is 100% movement speed - not the 20% stuff) And the instant you stop you go 100% invis!
Now this is a very bad idea - would basically turn NS2in to hidden-source, but it reinforces my point. This is not meant to be a nerf but merely a rework, come up with any stats you life for it! basicly Camo should be used for superior positioning, not for a free first bite.
And 2nd of all..... ITS A RTS, BLARG!..... Though your right that skulk rushing has very little downside (2ress ticks per death :P)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem with camo is that if it's not 100% cloak, then a cloaked lifeform may aswell be 100% visible (to a good player). Makes the upgrade useless.
If it's 100% cloak, then marines only option is to spend a lot of resources scanning all the time.
Motion tracking is too much of a hard counter for camo, and simply diverting back to scan costing energy will mean it's spammed too much.
I think scan should cost nothing, and the cooldown on a scan should be massive. That way it still costs money if you want to scan lots, but isn't a complete drain on the economy (one time investment for a second obs). Also, if you want to spam scan you need LOTS of observatories. Could also work with energy as long as the total energy pool in the obs is no more than 2x the required amount to scan, and energy regeneration is low enough that the energy required to scan isn't replenished very quickly at all.
tweak the speed of movement while claoked until its balanced
cloaking has gone thru many versions of OPness vs worthless thruout beta
once upon a time shades gave full invis to surrounding aliens for like 30 seconds durin which aliens can move out of the shade are and keep invis and hve 100% speed at that time obs did not have motion tracking either so it was pretty lolz
that was probably the most op version of shade hive
<!--quoteo(post=2037705:date=Nov 29 2012, 10:16 PM:name=Burdock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burdock @ Nov 29 2012, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I will take first things first, why do you think 100% invis when still would be useless?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because any "% invisible" might as well be 100% visible to players with good vision and some experience in the game. What makes camo OP is being able to WALK to someone's feet, then walk circles around him (if he's not running) with an onos and he won't be able to tell you're anywhere near.
And sure you'll say "oh, but in combat nobody stops moving etc. etc." Yes, but everyone stops to kill and construct structures. And oh, by the way, if you haven't realized this game is about constructing and killing structures, not players. The players are a distraction, but when they're an invisible, near-insta-kill distraction, it's kind of a problem.
But anyway, back to camo. Camo was actually 100% invisible even before the opping. You were only visible if not standing still (as a silhouette), or when you were very close to someone. However, sitting still and becoming visible even at close range meant usually near-instant death against good players.
It's kind of an extremely difficult ability to tweak IMO. It's extremely easy for it to go from op to useless. The problem is that if you make camo things run slowly, and if they're visible, the ability is for sure useless. The range at which things become visible (if they ever become visible again), the speed of movement when cloaked, the time-out from running to cloaking, the time-out after battle all need to be rethought imo.
The biggest problem for me is that there's no way for a marine to tell there's an alien there, even when the alien is closing in, without the com spending res. There's no other ability which is a guaranteed res drain like camo. Other abilities help aliens fight better, but they don't guarantee 3 t.res spent on marine side every 10-15 seconds.
A somewhat more simple "fix" would be to make camo not also include silence :-) . Silence is sort of redundant nowadays with the camo being 2-in-1... The only difference is that you can use silence while sprinting and hitting/leaping, but the benefit of that is questionable.
If it was up to me, I'd use some the ideas TF2 uses for the Spys cloak.
Camo isn't unlimited, it will deplete your energy.
Staying still energy depletes slowly, moving slowly energy depletes a bit faster, going full speed its depletes much faster.
Maybe even make it so that the skulk needs to de-camo before it can attack, though that may be too much of a Nerf.
At least if camo wasn't infinite, it would encourage a bit more strategy rather than skulks walking around the map constantly clocked, which is annoying for marines and the khammander, as its annoying as hell when your team spends the whole game slowly moving around in camo.
I think someone here already made this suggestion and I think it would be the way to go: add a humming sound (or any other sound, but humming really is what invisibility sounds like). This way Marines would be aware that there is an invisible thread close by, but they wouldn't be able to straight out point their fingers on it. Other games employed these mechanics very successfully (C&C: Renegade Stealth Tanks and Monday Night Combat Ninjas). There are also many ways to tweak this idea: radius of sound, make it directional or not directiona, how fast does it's intensity build up when closing in asf... Also imagine the creepy feeling when you and a mate weld a power node and that humming slowly enters your perception.
<!--quoteo(post=2037768:date=Nov 30 2012, 12:27 AM:name=alf90)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alf90 @ Nov 30 2012, 12:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If it was up to me, I'd use some the ideas TF2 uses for the Spys cloak. Camo isn't unlimited, it will deplete your energy. Staying still energy depletes slowly, moving slowly energy depletes a bit faster, going full speed its depletes much faster. Maybe even make it so that the skulk needs to de-camo before it can attack, though that may be too much of a Nerf. At least if camo wasn't infinite, it would encourage a bit more strategy rather than skulks walking around the map constantly clocked, which is annoying for marines and the khammander, as its annoying as hell when your team spends the whole game slowly moving around in camo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would do little to nothing, because walking around the map camo'd is not what half-decent teams do. Most people cloak in the next room or around the corner and walk up to you invisible. As long as they have the "energy" to do that, there will be no effect.
For people who are stupid enough to walk around the map cloaked when there is no threat, the walking speed is punishment enough.
camo is really op. with that netcode u get 2 bites before you are aware of them, and with low armor there is no way to counter attack. most people in pub doens't even try to turn around...
pro people can't get any advantage of being... pro.. and being able to 'see' cloacked aliens like it was before.
Not only op, but really annoying! UWE do something please
oh, <a href="http://goo.gl/mod/uDF7" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/mod/uDF7</a> go here and vote
<!--quoteo(post=2037701:date=Nov 30 2012, 07:05 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Nov 30 2012, 07:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037701"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think my solution to camo is awesome - Marines could spot moving camo skulks ONLY IF THEY THEMSELVES DO NOT MOVE, and even then only barely. But if Skulks also stop moving, then they're 100% invisible.
<snip><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh. I also want to present my idea how to fix camo.
How about everytime that skulks sneaks behind marine and bites piece off his arse the marine panics and jumps in the air and gets 200% movement speed for 10 seconds so he can run for his life.
<!--quoteo(post=2037778:date=Nov 30 2012, 08:48 AM:name=KwisatzHaderach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KwisatzHaderach @ Nov 30 2012, 08:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037778"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think someone here already made this suggestion and I think it would be the way to go: add a humming sound (or any other sound, but humming really is what invisibility sounds like). This way Marines would be aware that there is an invisible thread close by, but they wouldn't be able to straight out point their fingers on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes! Aiming from sound is fun.
Alternative implementation, that doesn't need extra sounds:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cloaking strength is a instantaneous function of speed, the closer to max speed, the cloakier you get. It prevents marines to get bitten by an invisible, silent creature and should make cloak more dynamic (don't need to wait for it to trigger). Put the focus on sound.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On current camo:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Camo is stupid for both marines and aliens. Get bitten by an invisible-silent alien? what could you have done better ? Nothing really, can't see, can't hear, can't do. Or maybe camp near an obs, ask for scan constantly.
As a skulk, you got scanned while crawling to a marine and got killed. What could you have done better ? Nothing really, you just got hard-countered. You crawl to a marine a bite his ass, do you feel like you're smart and you outplayed the marine? Nope.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2037516:date=Nov 29 2012, 06:01 PM:name=flyjum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (flyjum @ Nov 29 2012, 06:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037516"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dont stand still Prefire in common areas <b>Team up with 1-2 other marines</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This sums it up.
As a comm you can also scan contested areas, which helps immensely and more than often catches camo skulks off guard.
Marines need more tools. Spending money as a marine does not give you more abilities to work with, it gives you different abilities. This is why Marines demand such a high degree of teamwork compared to the aliens. For example, you buy a shotgun and lose the ability to rifle-butt compared to evolving to a lerk. etc.
Marines need an item they can research at the armory and purchase; Motion Tracker. Have it take the #4 slot (so they can't also mine); when equipped Marines grant short range motion tracking. By forcing the marines to equip the Tracker and draw it to activate (it could also have to be "fired" and have a duration and cooldown before it can "fire" again) a solo marine will still likely lose to a solo skulk who is already nearby; the two weapon switches should be plenty of time for the skulk to get the jump even if he's revealed pre-maturely.
The Tracker moves some of the cost of countering Shade Tech to the team's Pres, setting them back in terms of getting gear later game and also requiring the team to work together to get much mileage out of them. I'd ballpark cost at ~20 res /tracker.
If thats too OP don't let anyone but the Marine holding the tracker see the motion track so he has to yell "he's right behind you!" to his teammates.
<!--quoteo(post=2037768:date=Nov 30 2012, 03:27 AM:name=alf90)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alf90 @ Nov 30 2012, 03:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If it was up to me, I'd use some the ideas TF2 uses for the Spys cloak.
Camo isn't unlimited, it will deplete your energy.
Staying still energy depletes slowly, moving slowly energy depletes a bit faster, going full speed its depletes much faster.
Maybe even make it so that the skulk needs to de-camo before it can attack, though that may be too much of a Nerf.
At least if camo wasn't infinite, it would encourage a bit more strategy rather than skulks walking around the map constantly clocked, which is annoying for marines and the khammander, as its annoying as hell when your team spends the whole game slowly moving around in camo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is actually a great comment, and would improve the depth to cloaking (and make "keep moving" a lot more valid advice for the marine team to counter cloaking.)
I don't know, energy stealthing just sounds like a band-aid fix, it doesn't really make camo less imba, just makes it bothersome to use. Besides, how would it even work? Standing still would automatically put you in stealth, automatically deplete all your energy? Not good, so it would need a button. Not good. :G
I like the sound suggestion, but I'm not sure how well it works, also would be hilarious if people with 7.1 would have an advantage to headset users. xP
Camo = first strike -> get armor first and scan a lot, get mines if that ain't helping. Yes it costs res, but since they only have camo, you don't really need weapons3 or shotguns early on ;) I think camo is just op when the enemy comm is asleep :P Oh and keep your distance to other players so you can cover them better.
Dont walk around solo, a skulk ambush is a hassle for an early game single marine as it should be. Also deny a 3rd hive, if they go shade early and you deny the 3rd they lose combat effectiveness in either mobility or tankiness.
<!--quoteo(post=2037937:date=Nov 30 2012, 08:13 PM:name=RobustPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobustPenguin @ Nov 30 2012, 08:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dont walk around solo, a skulk ambush is a hassle for an early game single marine as it should be. Also deny a 3rd hive, if they go shade early and you deny the 3rd they lose combat effectiveness in either mobility or tankiness.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, the "don't walk solo" argument keeps popping up.
It's no different from Skulks without camo. Does marines grouping up make the game insta-win against Skulks without upgrades? (That's a thing, too, you know?) No it doesn't.
Marines group -> Skulks group. 4 camo skulks vs. 4 marines is VERY UGLY, for the MARINES.
is it really that hard to get answer to this one ? it's quite simple, scan, it's not like commander needs to spam med packs and ammo because walking skulks are easy targets, 1 scan is 3res, a well worth investment and can keep aliens at bay till they get only 2 hive without cele or carapace, and like someone already said onos without cara or cele is just easytarget at endgame.
build observatories in techpoints.
scan where your main forces are, don't scan for solo players unless you know they're good.
it's not really that hard, even in public game, your team might get delayed armor / weapon upgrade because you need to scan "hotzones", but honestly, aliens lose a lot more in that deal.
It's like people don't realize that scans cover one room for 10 seconds and cost 3 tres. What are you going to do, spend 18 tres per 2-3 critical rooms every minute so you can survive vs an overpowered cloak?
Good luck ever winning a game when you're spending 20+tres per minute in scans. This doesn't even account for the fact that skulks are still... skulks. Cloak doesn't make them any weaker. They could just play like normal skulks (or leap skulks) while you still need to drop 20+ tres/minute in scans. Who wins then?
<!--quoteo(post=2038063:date=Nov 30 2012, 04:40 PM:name=RaZDaZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaZDaZ @ Nov 30 2012, 04:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Complete invisibility while moving is the problem. Should be the AvP2 predator concept, invisible while stationary, barely visible while moving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's really hard to make it work in a way that doesn't break on certain graphics settings.
Theres a few good suggestions in this thread, along with a whole bunch of really, really bad ones.
I think the camo is not bad the way it is now, if you think about it its useless any other way (visible when moving? ok derp lets see who would ever go shade hive first).
The only reasonable counter to this is to help marines get off the ground faster. Perhaps get armor & weapons 1 faster & cheaper. I think a cloaked skulk vs a lvl1 marine is a somewhat fair fight. Or make cloak take longer to upgrade to .. that way marines aren't getting cloak ambushed 2 minutes in.
<!--quoteo(post=2038063:date=Nov 30 2012, 04:40 PM:name=RaZDaZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaZDaZ @ Nov 30 2012, 04:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Complete invisibility while moving is the problem. Should be the AvP2 predator concept, invisible while stationary, barely visible while moving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, or skulks shouldn't be completely silent while walking.
<!--quoteo(post=2038063:date=Nov 30 2012, 02:40 PM:name=RaZDaZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaZDaZ @ Nov 30 2012, 02:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Complete invisibility while moving is the problem. Should be the AvP2 predator concept, invisible while stationary, barely visible while moving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would restore camo to the realm of utter uselessness IMO, but better useless than OP so I'm all for it :-) . Anything that is slightly visible might as well be 100% visible, because good players or people who play on low or with modded shaders or w/e will see it. And if the aliens still get a speed penalty while moving, guess how popular camo will be when to use it requires you to slow down (i.e. be easily spotted and shot).
The best solution IMO is carefully tweaking the range at which aliens become visible, or make them visible in the flashlight, or something to that effect.
Signed up for this thread. Camo is ridiculous. However, if you use your <a href="http://i46.tinypic.com/2vl4188.jpg" target="_blank">TSA visor</a> this game is a lot more fun.
<!--quoteo(post=2038272:date=Dec 1 2012, 03:44 AM:name=TSADrone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TSADrone @ Dec 1 2012, 03:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038272"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Signed up for this thread. Camo is ridiculous. However, if you use your <a href="http://i46.tinypic.com/2vl4188.jpg" target="_blank">TSA visor</a> this game is a lot more fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
I can come up with ways this would be better then the one we have now.
Lets say old-style of camo when moving(90%invis)(note, this is 100% movement speed - not the 20% stuff)
And the instant you stop you go 100% invis!
Now this is a very bad idea - would basically turn NS2in to hidden-source, but it reinforces my point. This is not meant to be a nerf but merely a rework, come up with any stats you life for it! basicly Camo should be used for superior positioning, not for a free first bite.
And 2nd of all..... ITS A RTS, BLARG!..... Though your right that skulk rushing has very little downside (2ress ticks per death :P)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's 100% cloak, then marines only option is to spend a lot of resources scanning all the time.
Motion tracking is too much of a hard counter for camo, and simply diverting back to scan costing energy will mean it's spammed too much.
I think scan should cost nothing, and the cooldown on a scan should be massive. That way it still costs money if you want to scan lots, but isn't a complete drain on the economy (one time investment for a second obs). Also, if you want to spam scan you need LOTS of observatories. Could also work with energy as long as the total energy pool in the obs is no more than 2x the required amount to scan, and energy regeneration is low enough that the energy required to scan isn't replenished very quickly at all.
cloaking has gone thru many versions of OPness vs worthless thruout beta
once upon a time shades gave full invis to surrounding aliens for like 30 seconds durin which aliens can move out of the shade are and keep invis and hve 100% speed
at that time obs did not have motion tracking either so it was pretty lolz
that was probably the most op version of shade hive
counter back then was... shotty rush their hive
NS1 had cloaking too and it had no problems. In fact, with 3 sc, it only took 1 second to go fully invisible.
Commanders just need to learn to scan properly.
I've won many pub games as marine commander when shade was the first hive
And please don't say that counter to cloaking in ns1 was MT because it wasn't.
Because any "% invisible" might as well be 100% visible to players with good vision and some experience in the game. What makes camo OP is being able to WALK to someone's feet, then walk circles around him (if he's not running) with an onos and he won't be able to tell you're anywhere near.
And sure you'll say "oh, but in combat nobody stops moving etc. etc." Yes, but everyone stops to kill and construct structures. And oh, by the way, if you haven't realized this game is about constructing and killing structures, not players. The players are a distraction, but when they're an invisible, near-insta-kill distraction, it's kind of a problem.
But anyway, back to camo. Camo was actually 100% invisible even before the opping. You were only visible if not standing still (as a silhouette), or when you were very close to someone. However, sitting still and becoming visible even at close range meant usually near-instant death against good players.
It's kind of an extremely difficult ability to tweak IMO. It's extremely easy for it to go from op to useless. The problem is that if you make camo things run slowly, and if they're visible, the ability is for sure useless. The range at which things become visible (if they ever become visible again), the speed of movement when cloaked, the time-out from running to cloaking, the time-out after battle all need to be rethought imo.
The biggest problem for me is that there's no way for a marine to tell there's an alien there, even when the alien is closing in, without the com spending res. There's no other ability which is a guaranteed res drain like camo. Other abilities help aliens fight better, but they don't guarantee 3 t.res spent on marine side every 10-15 seconds.
A somewhat more simple "fix" would be to make camo not also include silence :-) . Silence is sort of redundant nowadays with the camo being 2-in-1... The only difference is that you can use silence while sprinting and hitting/leaping, but the benefit of that is questionable.
Camo isn't unlimited, it will deplete your energy.
Staying still energy depletes slowly, moving slowly energy depletes a bit faster, going full speed its depletes much faster.
Maybe even make it so that the skulk needs to de-camo before it can attack, though that may be too much of a Nerf.
At least if camo wasn't infinite, it would encourage a bit more strategy rather than skulks walking around the map constantly clocked, which is annoying for marines and the khammander, as its annoying as hell when your team spends the whole game slowly moving around in camo.
There are also many ways to tweak this idea: radius of sound, make it directional or not directiona, how fast does it's intensity build up when closing in asf...
Also imagine the creepy feeling when you and a mate weld a power node and that humming slowly enters your perception.
That would do little to nothing, because walking around the map camo'd is not what half-decent teams do. Most people cloak in the next room or around the corner and walk up to you invisible. As long as they have the "energy" to do that, there will be no effect.
For people who are stupid enough to walk around the map cloaked when there is no threat, the walking speed is punishment enough.
camo is really op.
with that netcode u get 2 bites before you are aware of them, and with low armor there is no way to counter attack.
most people in pub doens't even try to turn around...
pro people can't get any advantage of being... pro.. and being able to 'see' cloacked aliens like it was before.
Not only op, but really annoying!
UWE do something please
oh, <a href="http://goo.gl/mod/uDF7" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/mod/uDF7</a> go here and vote
<snip><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh. I also want to present my idea how to fix camo.
How about everytime that skulks sneaks behind marine and bites piece off his arse the marine panics and jumps in the air and gets 200% movement speed for 10 seconds so he can run for his life.
Yes! Aiming from sound is fun.
Alternative implementation, that doesn't need extra sounds:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cloaking strength is a instantaneous function of speed, the closer to max speed, the cloakier you get. It prevents marines to get bitten by an invisible, silent creature and should make cloak more dynamic (don't need to wait for it to trigger). Put the focus on sound.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On current camo:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Camo is stupid for both marines and aliens. Get bitten by an invisible-silent alien? what could you have done better ? Nothing really, can't see, can't hear, can't do. Or maybe camp near an obs, ask for scan constantly.
As a skulk, you got scanned while crawling to a marine and got killed. What could you have done better ? Nothing really, you just got hard-countered. You crawl to a marine a bite his ass, do you feel like you're smart and you outplayed the marine? Nope.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Prefire in common areas
<b>Team up with 1-2 other marines</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This sums it up.
As a comm you can also scan contested areas, which helps immensely and more than often catches camo skulks off guard.
Marines need an item they can research at the armory and purchase; Motion Tracker. Have it take the #4 slot (so they can't also mine); when equipped Marines grant short range motion tracking. By forcing the marines to equip the Tracker and draw it to activate (it could also have to be "fired" and have a duration and cooldown before it can "fire" again) a solo marine will still likely lose to a solo skulk who is already nearby; the two weapon switches should be plenty of time for the skulk to get the jump even if he's revealed pre-maturely.
The Tracker moves some of the cost of countering Shade Tech to the team's Pres, setting them back in terms of getting gear later game and also requiring the team to work together to get much mileage out of them. I'd ballpark cost at ~20 res /tracker.
If thats too OP don't let anyone but the Marine holding the tracker see the motion track so he has to yell "he's right behind you!" to his teammates.
Camo isn't unlimited, it will deplete your energy.
Staying still energy depletes slowly, moving slowly energy depletes a bit faster, going full speed its depletes much faster.
Maybe even make it so that the skulk needs to de-camo before it can attack, though that may be too much of a Nerf.
At least if camo wasn't infinite, it would encourage a bit more strategy rather than skulks walking around the map constantly clocked, which is annoying for marines and the khammander, as its annoying as hell when your team spends the whole game slowly moving around in camo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is actually a great comment, and would improve the depth to cloaking (and make "keep moving" a lot more valid advice for the marine team to counter cloaking.)
I like the sound suggestion, but I'm not sure how well it works, also would be hilarious if people with 7.1 would have an advantage to headset users. xP
My suggestion is still the best LOL
Okay, the "don't walk solo" argument keeps popping up.
It's no different from Skulks without camo. Does marines grouping up make the game insta-win against Skulks without upgrades? (That's a thing, too, you know?) No it doesn't.
Marines group -> Skulks group. 4 camo skulks vs. 4 marines is VERY UGLY, for the MARINES.
build observatories in techpoints.
scan where your main forces are, don't scan for solo players unless you know they're good.
it's not really that hard, even in public game, your team might get delayed armor / weapon upgrade because you need to scan "hotzones", but honestly, aliens lose a lot more in that deal.
Good luck ever winning a game when you're spending 20+tres per minute in scans. This doesn't even account for the fact that skulks are still... skulks. Cloak doesn't make them any weaker. They could just play like normal skulks (or leap skulks) while you still need to drop 20+ tres/minute in scans. Who wins then?
It's really hard to make it work in a way that doesn't break on certain graphics settings.
I think the camo is not bad the way it is now, if you think about it its useless any other way (visible when moving? ok derp lets see who would ever go shade hive first).
The only reasonable counter to this is to help marines get off the ground faster. Perhaps get armor & weapons 1 faster & cheaper. I think a cloaked skulk vs a lvl1 marine is a somewhat fair fight.
Or make cloak take longer to upgrade to .. that way marines aren't getting cloak ambushed 2 minutes in.
This, or skulks shouldn't be completely silent while walking.
This would restore camo to the realm of utter uselessness IMO, but better useless than OP so I'm all for it :-) . Anything that is slightly visible might as well be 100% visible, because good players or people who play on low or with modded shaders or w/e will see it. And if the aliens still get a speed penalty while moving, guess how popular camo will be when to use it requires you to slow down (i.e. be easily spotted and shot).
The best solution IMO is carefully tweaking the range at which aliens become visible, or make them visible in the flashlight, or something to that effect.
.... if you use wall hacks?