The Hive building time

CrushaK

<div class="IPBDescription">…why was it nerfed?</div>So, what are your experiences with having the time to get up a Hive changed from 150 seconds to 180 seconds?

Personally, I found aliens to be easily dominated in most of the matches by marines now before they can even get their second Hive built up, which is required for many of their vital upgrades. Marines feel advantaged after all the alien nerfs because they can keep progressing their technology and efficiency without needing any additional tech points whereas Skulks need a second Hive to become competitive in late game with Leap once marines got so many upgrades.

But I wonder if I am the only one thinking this.

Keldorn

This is a good point, and even though I agree with it, it has been brought up dozen of times before and in beta as well.

I guess it doesn't fit in with what the developers have in mind for their game.

PsympleJester

<!--quoteo(post=2034142:date=Nov 25 2012, 09:56 AM:name=CrushaK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CrushaK @ Nov 25 2012, 09:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034142"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, what are your experiences with having the time to get up a Hive changed from 150 seconds to 180 seconds?

Personally, I found aliens to be easily dominated in most of the matches by marines now before they can even get their second Hive built up, which is required for many of their vital upgrades. Marines feel advantaged after all the alien nerfs because they can keep progressing their technology and efficiency without needing any additional tech points whereas Skulks need a second Hive to become competitive in late game with Leap once marines got so many upgrades.

But I wonder if I am the only one thinking this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cos gorge healing hives so that they build quickly is now a requirement yo...
But tiz fine yo cos in public games wif laik 20000 playas aliens can afford laik 20 gorges to heal dai hive up bear quick yo....
Ya get me?!?!?!?

CrushaK

I feel ya. Nobody escapes an oiled Scotsman!


Seriously though, if you'd follow that logic you'd have to make it take longer for marines to build CCs as well (and also make them cost more).
Aliens are required to expand to survive from midgame on, yet it takes them longer to do so.

If I had to guess, I'd say they increased the time to counter quick alien expansion with instant Hive drops anywhere on the map as opposed to marines who have to go everywhere first to build stuff. They should rather make an initial cyst connection to the next Hive location a requirement to drop the Hive there but in return bring down the time to grow it a bit. (Or at least make the Hive grow a little faster while it has a connection to get some infestation pumped to it through a chain of cysts)

Mavick

It does seem to take forever to get the 2nd hive up ungorged. But honestly, the way I look at this is this: I don't think I've ever seen aliens without leap/bile bomb AFTER marines with jetpacks/exos. I honestly don't think the build time is an issue since that second hive is usually up well before marines have a 2nd CC that's contributing anything. And of course, if you have a gorge with a shift, it doesn't matter anyway, since if he's unimpeded he'll have it up in pretty short order. Hives will build themselves afterall, in an empty room with nobody around on either team. CC's take forever to build themselves in relation to other structures.

Snypr18

It also seems kind of odd to me, especially with the Onos egg nerf as well. I dont really get it.

Xarius

It's a ###### attempt at reducing the dominance of second hive starts basically. Just a symptom fix instead of an actual proper solution to the underlying cause.

Volcano

There was no need for it

CrushaK

If aliens could at least somewhat stay competitive without their second Hive, similar to how marines can progressing easily into lategame without a second Command Station.

What about a system where you could still research the upgrades that require more than one Hive for now but at a much higher cost. A 2-Hive upgrade without second Hive could cost 2.5x of it's usual cost and take 1.5x longer to research than if all required Hives were there.
So Leap would be acquirable for 50 res (in case aliens sit on enough res but can't get a second Hive dropped). Stomp could be acquired for the ridiculous price of 75 res with two Hives. It should not be the desirable way to go but more an emergency if you need it.

In order for the upgrades to be deniable, they would have to be <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=125162" target="_blank">linked to the Hive</a> though.

OnosFactory

The amount of games I join at ~3.30 and everyone on the alien team (except the good ol Kham, although I fully understand why) is at ~29 res, obviously no Gorges were attempted, lo' and behold: Aliens stuck at one hive.

Hopefully play soon evolves to a better appreciation of game-start gorges, which as mentioned is pretty obtainable with bigger servers.

Ideas: Hypermutation back to skulks would help, dunno how Khams would get that and an early hive though.

RFK for gorges only? Or heal spray on downed marines for 3 second progress bar if successful converts to +1 res? I guess that is kinda construed though.

Something better than +5 points for building a Hive (lol!).

Timarius

Hives take longer to build for the same reason it's cheaper to drop a CC and a phase gate in a room. Aliens were having too much fun, and new players on the marine side weren't. Now marines have to be able to stomp aliens for a while.

This will all swing back around eventually. I hope.