balance - be patient plz
tarquinbb
Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members
Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members
i would like to ask the community to be a little more patient about balance changes when it comes to issues which aren't gamebreaking.
now that the most detrimental issues; alien learning curve and tres onos have been addressed by patch/time we are beginning to see a clearer picture on how the metagame is evolving with regards to game balance. but there is still a ways to go before players are experienced enough to fully utilize some areas of the game, which were previously unexplored due to those aforementioned issues.
marine commanders/players will learn the critical importance of phase gates, and know when to research extremely strong mines and arcs without delaying other early game upgrades.
alien commanders/players will learn the critical importance of shifts, not for the eggs, but for the incredible energy regeneration boost: not to mention the cyst popping to blind marines, and using drifters/bone wall to better effect.
i'm having far more fun in 230/231 than i was having before, for both teams... the games feel more open, and i don't feel like it's gg instantly after losing a fight over a neutral tech point.
obviously the metagame is going to evolve and more balance issues will emerge, but i don't see any cause for concern. on a whole, i'm very pleased with balance changes since release and i can't be the only one...
thanks for reading, and if you're one of the people who dislikes the balance tweaking then i trust you will at least make an effort to see the good instead of focusing on the bad for once.
now that the most detrimental issues; alien learning curve and tres onos have been addressed by patch/time we are beginning to see a clearer picture on how the metagame is evolving with regards to game balance. but there is still a ways to go before players are experienced enough to fully utilize some areas of the game, which were previously unexplored due to those aforementioned issues.
marine commanders/players will learn the critical importance of phase gates, and know when to research extremely strong mines and arcs without delaying other early game upgrades.
alien commanders/players will learn the critical importance of shifts, not for the eggs, but for the incredible energy regeneration boost: not to mention the cyst popping to blind marines, and using drifters/bone wall to better effect.
i'm having far more fun in 230/231 than i was having before, for both teams... the games feel more open, and i don't feel like it's gg instantly after losing a fight over a neutral tech point.
obviously the metagame is going to evolve and more balance issues will emerge, but i don't see any cause for concern. on a whole, i'm very pleased with balance changes since release and i can't be the only one...
thanks for reading, and if you're one of the people who dislikes the balance tweaking then i trust you will at least make an effort to see the good instead of focusing on the bad for once.
Comments
The Metagame or "The game outside the game" is when a player or team use external factors and knowledge to decide the outcome of a game. In the case of NS2, it would be a team knowing that their opponents like to employ a specific strategy and directly counter it in advance only to find that the opponents expected this and employed a completely different strategy. This is both teams metagaming.
Metagaming trends occur in a game with a diverse range of strategies where one set of strategies become dominant only to suddenly be weak as older, outdated strategies are discovered to be strong against them again. In order for metagaming to be prevalent in a game there needs to be diversity of strategy to begin with.
Simply looking at patchnotes and deciding to research shadowstep earlier because it is now cheaper is not metagaming.
I love 230...
Only fixes I think are needed are: cloak + shift eggs. (pubs need them)
<!--quoteo(post=2031208:date=Nov 21 2012, 03:50 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (puzl @ Nov 21 2012, 03:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031208"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In order for metagaming to be prevalent in a game there needs to be diversity of strategy to begin with.
Simply looking at patchnotes and deciding to research shadowstep earlier because it is now cheaper is not metagaming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol.... you are suggesting there is no diversity of stratergy?
And you think shadowstep needs to be researched...
And your pointing things out to him? xD
Please share more.
The Metagame or "The game outside the game" is when a player or team use external factors and knowledge to decide the outcome of a game. In the case of NS2, it would be a team knowing that their opponents like to employ a specific strategy and directly counter it in advance only to find that the opponents expected this and employed a completely different strategy. This is both teams metagaming.
Metagaming trends occur in a game with a diverse range of strategies where one set of strategies become dominant only to suddenly be weak as older, outdated strategies are discovered to be strong against them again. In order for metagaming to be prevalent in a game there needs to be diversity of strategy to begin with.
Simply looking at patchnotes and deciding to research shadowstep earlier because it is now cheaper is not metagaming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i know what metagame means... i've had this same discussion on team liquid forums a bunch of times and an admin even banned me for 'misusing' the term once, even though i did not misuse the word - just maybe used it in a misleading context.
when i say the 'metagame is more clear', i mean that it will be easier to see emerging trends for example when more players begin using arcs to counter alien structure sieges etc. that sort of stuff was pretty hard to notice before because almost everything revolved around the onos.
when people see the effectiveness of arcs to break alien structure siege, they will remember... because 2 volleys (1 scan or vison from teammates) from 4 arcs will kill every shift, whip, hydra, shade and crag in the area. it's a perfect counter.
The Metagame or "The game outside the game" is when a player or team use external factors and knowledge to decide the outcome of a game. In the case of NS2, it would be a team knowing that their opponents like to employ a specific strategy and directly counter it in advance only to find that the opponents expected this and employed a completely different strategy. This is both teams metagaming.
Metagaming trends occur in a game with a diverse range of strategies where one set of strategies become dominant only to suddenly be weak as older, outdated strategies are discovered to be strong against them again. In order for metagaming to be prevalent in a game there needs to be diversity of strategy to begin with.
Simply looking at patchnotes and deciding to research shadowstep earlier because it is now cheaper is not metagaming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think there's a difference between "metagaming" and "the metagame". The latter generally refers to player awareness of the most effective strategies. The metagame evolves as players start to learn what works and what doesn't, and develop the strategies they employ accordingly. And yes, countering popular strategies is a part of that process.
I'm talking about aliens lack of scaling, mediocre midgame lifeforms, lack of tech or usefulness, and the heavy handed nerf/buffs they receive each patch.
Making sure the changelogs are up to date and correct is a start. Not posting irrelevant contextless winrates as an argument is another thing. Making sure people trust in the people and system behind the balancing process is yet another huge factor.
Balancing NS2 is a huge challenge and takes time, not the slightest doubt about that. However, it's much easier to give it all the time necessary when the details are speaking good things about the process. That's something NS2 certainly could improve.
I'm talking about aliens lack of scaling, mediocre midgame lifeforms, lack of tech or usefulness, and the heavy handed nerf/buffs they receive each patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol you played this game?
Aliens are better at turtling to late game now and their late game tech is better than marine late game tech.
Play defensive as Aliens yo.... win yo...
Complain less.
Not to mention their early game is crazy good no matter what chamber they pick...
Seriously... have you played this game?
Aliens are better at turtling to late game now and their late game tech is better than marine late game tech.
Play defensive as Aliens yo.... win yo...
Complain less.
Not to mention their early game is crazy good no matter what chamber they pick...
Seriously... have you played this game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did. I haven't played for a month due to life issues, but I haven't seen any changes that's made the alien gameplay any less boring since release.
I can't even take you serious with the any chamber comment, because pub stomp sure is hard.
does any other balance matter considering 99.9% of people only play pubs? orz
day9 (along with many other genius sc2 minds) are known to use the term 'metagame' like me.
i don't know... maybe artosis only uses it in 'starcraft dictionary' sense, but it's not a real word it was created by the need for such a term and therefore it's open to evolution.
it doesn't really bother me that people have different uses for the term, it's the 'word police' which i find more annoying.
I'm not saying to balance only for competitive scene, but when statements like "any chamber works early game" while discounting what effects it'll cause late game when you chose a mediocre chamber to "prove" a point is asinine. I can make zero chambers work against incompetent marines, doesn't mean that aliens are op or in a good spot, it just means that the marines are incompetent.
Also balancing around players new to the series and/or game release players hasn't been working so far, has it? It's the same when they adjusted lifeforms' health during beta when marines cried because they were too tuff to kill, discounting the fact that the hit reg was a complete joke during that time. I haven't found a rhyme or reason for some of these balancing changes, while some of the butcher any form of gameplay significance it could have had and all we are left with is stale gameplay.
Easy.
Devising strategy using balance variables is the strategy game.
Devising strategy using anything else is the meta game.