To lag compensate or to not lag compensate ...
NSDigi
Join Date: 2010-04-23 Member: 71503Members
Join Date: 2010-04-23 Member: 71503Members
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Devs make the right decision, code the ability to allow the server admin to choose whether or not they want lag compensation enabled or not. This engine needs a boost and some public eye; coding this option would not only put you as the first one to do it, but you'll also gain the love of all old school gamers around the world!
I'm against lag compensation for the simple fact that it has never worked correctly, on <b>ANY</b> engine. Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind it one bit if it worked as intended. But, in 14 years, no one has got it right. It may be suitable to the casual gamer that plays console and games like COD with a controller; this atmosphere, I must say, is much different.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I'm against lag compensation for the simple fact that it has never worked correctly, on <b>ANY</b> engine. Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind it one bit if it worked as intended. But, in 14 years, no one has got it right. It may be suitable to the casual gamer that plays console and games like COD with a controller; this atmosphere, I must say, is much different.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Comments
That's a bit too radical IMO. I'm not sure I can support a solution where I'll have to predict where skulks will be in 50-100ms and shoot my shots there.
A single frame delay was disastrous to aiming before the bug was fixed in 228 was it? Nevermind a 50-100ms delay...
With any luck as connectivity improves things will head back this way.
If the people in my country don't elect a bunch of racist, myopic, misogynist cretins to government we'll have 1Gbps FTTH in the next 5 or so years across a lot of the country!
Thanks Beagle and Timarius, it's good to hear the support.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
2. Use net_lag 999
3. Bask in the joy on being nearly unhittable
Lag compensation makes FPS internet gaming playable. Unless you plan on only playing NS2 on LANs, its not worth disabling lag compensation.
2. Use net_lag 999
3. Bask in the joy on being nearly unhittable
Lag compensation makes FPS internet gaming playable. Unless you plan on only playing NS2 on LANs, its not worth disabling lag compensation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think <strike>they</strike> he understand this, wouldn't bother all too much with it dood.
This would never get used in competitive matches unless you split the scene up west/central/east coast, but that will also not happen with how small the US scene already is, until performance is fixed and a miracle, anyway.
doubtful this will be used in any more than a small handful amount of pubs, as they would stop using it over due to a smaller player base of people playing in the server compared to what it could be.
2. Use net_lag 999
3. Bask in the joy on being nearly unhittable
Lag compensation makes FPS internet gaming playable. Unless you plan on only playing NS2 on LANs, its not worth disabling lag compensation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simple solution. Don't give players access to anything that could let them do that.
<!--quoteo(post=2032479:date=Nov 22 2012, 02:08 PM:name=turtsmcgurt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (turtsmcgurt @ Nov 22 2012, 02:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032479"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think <strike>they</strike> he understand this, wouldn't bother all too much with it dood.
This would never get used in competitive matches unless you split the scene up west/central/east coast, but that will also not happen with how small the US scene already is, until performance is fixed and a miracle, anyway.
doubtful this will be used in any more than a small handful amount of pubs, as they would stop using it over due to a smaller player base of people playing in the server compared to what it could be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have any good reasons against giving server hosts more control over how their server behaves? What's wrong with giving them a chance to tweak values until they find the sweet spot for their particular setup?
I didn't say to get rid of lag compensation altogether, but as somebody who used to play games without it, I see no issue.
What I want to see is server hosts able to tweak lag compensation until it's in a good place for their particular server setup, or to turn it off if they so desire.
Now, wouldn't that also take some weight off of UWE's shoulders?
The latter would mean to calculate all shots on the shooting client and sending the server the result of the hit.
Unlagging remembers a players location over time up to a certain maximum ping compensation. When a player sends a shooting request to the server, the server will go back in time according to the shooter's ping and calculate the result of the shot based on the serverside player positions at the time where the shooter actually sent the request.
I'm against lag compensation for the simple fact that it has never worked correctly, on <b>ANY</b> engine. Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind it one bit if it worked as intended. But, in 14 years, no one has got it right. It may be suitable to the casual gamer that plays console and games like COD with a controller; this atmosphere, I must say, is much different.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it would work, with single but: lag is not constant.
the sole purpose of compensation is to make movement\etc. smooth in time, predictive for human. all pub games won't work without this.
humans can't adapt to 100Hz lag change.
of course, we can set lag to be constant and > max possible lag between servers and all clients, but that would be unplayable. constant 80ms lag is very bad
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Non-lag compensated is the only way to play, I read from above that you approve of broken hit reg and that it should be used in competitive play; I see that unfair in all aspects. Playing in a competitive scenario involves 100% skill and experience, when you introduce a luck factor you lose integrity of the fair balance.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2033097:date=Nov 23 2012, 02:15 PM:name=kikaxa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kikaxa @ Nov 23 2012, 02:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... the sole purpose of compensation is to make movement\etc. smooth in time, predictive for human ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->I agree with you, but it doesn't work as intended and is misleading.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2033097:date=Nov 23 2012, 02:15 PM:name=kikaxa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kikaxa @ Nov 23 2012, 02:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2033097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... humans can't adapt to 100Hz lag change.
of course, we can set lag to be constant and > max possible lag between servers and all clients, but that would be unplayable. constant 80ms lag is very bad<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Jitter is very acceptable across the US, within 5ms. If you are seeing anything more then your route, source and/or destination, or system performance is below what it should be. I've played a solid 150 ping back in my dial-up days, granted I had to lead my shots, everything was dead on and nothing had to be questioned. 80ms is very playable and would require little lead time.
Besides the statements from above, my whole point to this thread was to gain visibility on a feature that I think should be a part of <b>EVERY</b> new game engine out there. If it is selectable by the game/server moderator than what is so wrong with putting it in? It would only help the popularity of the game engine and promote an even further configurable environment ...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2040747:date=Dec 5 2012, 09:55 PM:name=sedek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sedek @ Dec 5 2012, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2039457:date=Dec 3 2012, 04:02 PM:name=Gliss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gliss @ Dec 3 2012, 04:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2039457"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://youtu.be/rkSJuIdtvjQ" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/rkSJuIdtvjQ</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I just can't shake the weird sensation of something being off when watching your shotgun snap 40+ pixels perfectly onto the Fade as he's dancing. Not once, but twice. Is this what a good player looks like? Blurring the line between perfect aimbot and human twitching?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->The video shows good hand eye coordination and muscle memory, there is A LOT more involved when labeling someone good.
Although I may not have video content to provide to that thread, I can tell you that hit reg is off something awful. I've played FPS for about 17 years now and with 14 of that being exposed to lag compensation; I can't think of one game that has been worse. This is truly the main reason I didn't support this game one bit (other than pre-order, only because of expectations of this being better than the first) until launch. Not saying this isn't being done, but definitely not seen by the public - Use your money for gamer's sake, bring in someone that is versed in game engine mechanics, coding, and theory to get Spark and NS2 off the dirt floor!
The game already has a unique persona and is the main reason there has been enough backing for it; don't let that go to waste ...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->