The Chaos Strategy

Tomten · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">does it work? :)</div> Me and a friend decided to try this strat on a public server today. What you do is, you don't build in your first base at all. Instead you order all your marines to a empty hive and setup a new base there. You should be able to afford everything you need (1CC, 2 Inf Portals and a resource tower). You will probably loose your first base pretty fast, but now you got one hive that's virtually impossible for the Kharaa to take back, and only a MINUTE into the game <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'>

Your economy will be a little weaker since your second resource tower will be late, but since you now have a chance to grab two hives, I think it's a risk worth taking. The biggest problem is getting the marines to a empty hive, sometimes they get eaten by skulks, and then it's game over :|

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

Awfully risky. If I were trying this, I'd throw down an infantry portal in your main base, just in case you run into a pack of Skulks on your way to a (hopefully) empty Hive.

If you manage to make it to an empty Hive without losing your guys, setting up a base there has actually been discussed before.

With the one portal running, if your whole force gets decimated, you're still in the game and can build up your main base as normal without a huge delay.

Wheatevo · November 2002

I was just in a game like this as a matter of fact. We began as usual, with two spawns, and then we were ordered somewhere else where we infested an alien hive and relocated the commander. It seemed to work well as we set up another defense at the second hive, but then a few problems arose with the aliens taking one of the hives back, despite HA/HMG marines. Perhaps my squad was unbelievably bad, or a lucky skulk got through and trashed the turret factory. Either way, the game became too laggy and I was forced to leave. (The game began at about 100-150 ping, eventually reached 500-600.)

Guillaume777 · November 2002

When I play as I commander, I almost always relocate my base to an hive. Not only does this secure an hive very early, but it also secure it far better than an "expension".... After that the trick is to not stop and instead attack/secure a second hive. I figured out that since fades are so hard to kill, it's actually far easier to simply prevent alien from getting them in the first place. Once you get two hives, you basically won because skulks rarely destroy bases ( skulks are way too easy to kill ) . IMO Skulks should be upgraded while Fades should be weakened, as the difference between having 1 hive and 2 hives is enormous ( as opposed to the difference between having 2 and 3 hives, which is pretty small ).

To put it more clearly, the best way to win as marines is to rush the hives right at the beggining. For alien, the best way to win is to delay the marines until they get Fades. Since most people ( and so, commanders ) are really insecure and so generally don't attack much at the beggining, it's no surprise that the aliens almost always win.

Don't forget guys,
Fades > <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> > <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'>

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

Fades aren't stronger than marines if you work together. The Fade is the heavy combat alien class. It's meant to be a massive powerhouse. You can't normally take on a Fade by yourself unless you've got heavy armor and a shotgun/HMG. Working with the rest of your team though, they're a piece of cake.

I think the Fade's biggest advantage right now is totally psychological. Yes, they're tough. But they're not unstoppable. I see guys in HA running away from Fades because they're scared. Once you get their habits down (usually hit and run with acid rockets), just counter it. Chase them down and let it rip with a point-blank shotgun blast. If they're focusing more on melee combat, take them out with an HMG.

I used to make it a goal to not allow the aliens the ability to evolve into Fades. I usually ended up rushing to secure that 2nd Hive and wound up forgetting to do something important.

Once people start to realize that Fades aren't the end of the world, the alien players will be complaining that they're too weak.

MeltedSnowman · November 2002

Fades are tough when there are only three marines on the team and one of them's commanding, but otherwise I am unafraid. :}

... But just because I'm not afraid of them doesn't mean they don't kill me. :{

CrazedMonkOnaMission · November 2002

The greatest advantage Fades have is hit and run. They can plop down 4-5 acid rockets and duck around a corner. Retreating will only make this worse, staying at one end of a corridor firing as a group will onyl make this worse (splash).

Solution, split up, box him in, and attack. Fades are actually not that "tough" they can't take that much damage actually. It only seems like they can, since they often run away, blink to defence towers and heal. If you box in from the side he can't run, if you chase him, he will go down (they normally don't expect that)

Secondly, pistols are often great weapons against Fades, since they actually deal more damage then LMGs and HMGs at medium ranges (more accurate, more damage in a given time, less conefire spread) Meaning you can often kill the Fade before he has a chance to run, since emptying an entire pistol clip for 200 DMG is very fast. Using an LMG however will cause him to notice he is taking damage, and he will run.

Guillaume777 · November 2002

I'm sorry Flatline[UTD], but you are wrong on this. Fades are incredibly overpowered, there no doubt to it. I keep hearing people say "but if a group of marines use teamwork they will be able to kill fades". But the very fact that you <b>need</b> several Marines with HMG + HA to kill a single Fade is quite ridiculous, especially since Fades cost 48 each fully upgraded, and a single HMG + HA marine cost 52.... Wake up people, aliens are supposed to use teamwork just as much as marines ! Umbra and Healing Spray were put in for a reason ! Yet in most game, those abilities are almost never used on teammates. Comeon what is the last time you saw a lerk use umbra to help his fades teammates ? I bet it was in 1.00 . In fact I almost never see lerk in mid-game, only at beginning( to spike unarmored marines ) and end ( godly spore cloud ). Why are those great abilities ( umbra and healing spray ) never used ? Simply because it is overkill : the Fades have no problems killing even the best equipped marines with no backup at all. As such playing as an alien became incredibly boring as no teamwork is involved . This is why I switched to marine in 1.01 ( I used to play alien in 1.00 )

By the way Flatline I find it funny how you always "wound up forgetting to do something important" while rushing the second hive. The only thing important you need to do at that point of the game is getting motion sensor up asap and building a few resources towers there and there. You don't need weapons, you don't need armor, you don't even need to worry about resources that much since you barely have anything to build or buy.

CrazedMonkOnaMission · November 2002

If you read my post, Fades cream mariens simply because they run, rather then attack. Fades are the alien siege weapon, stay in an area without runnign them down and they will get you. Ditch the heavy armor, its not always the best choice in every situation.

It is also harder for aliens to tech up to Fades, and evolve (due to resource distribution)

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'm sorry Flatline[UTD], but you are wrong on this. Fades are incredibly overpowered, there no doubt to it. I keep hearing people say "but if a group of marines use teamwork they will be able to kill fades". But the very fact that you <b>need</b> several Marines with HMG + HA to kill a single Fade is quite ridiculous...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I can take out a Fade one-on-one with HA and a shotgun, no problem. HA is the equalizer between Fades and the marines. It takes the aliens time and resources to be able to get Fades; the same goes for the marines. I really hate to tell this story again (it seems like I've told it 5 times now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> ) but, with the help of my Commander in one game, I was able to take out 3 Fades, 7 Skulks, and set up a forward base by myself. I had HA, a shotgun, a pistol, and a Commander looking over my shoulder. It's not impossible to take them out. I wouldn't have been able to do that without the Commander's help, but you're not *supposed* to be able to in NS.

Fades are definately overpowered if you're going after them with LMG-equipped marines. You have to research to the "mid-level" technology of the game (HA, and maybe a weapon-upgrade or two) to compete with them. This isn't overpower, this is balance.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Wake up people, aliens are supposed to use teamwork just as much as marines ! Umbra and Healing Spray were put in for a reason ! Yet in most game, those abilities are almost never used on teammates.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Definately, the aliens need teamplay to have fun, but they don't require it to win. They have inherent abilities like hive sight that take the place of having total dependence on teamplay. If they want to work as a team, they've got everything they need to do so.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Comeon what is the last time you saw a lerk use umbra to help his fades teammates ?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Every game I play that gets to that point... I love having a Lerk teammate when I'm aliens, I hate having one in the group that's attacking me when I'm marines.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>By the way Flatline I find it funny how you always "wound up forgetting to do something important" while rushing the second hive.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Well, I like to stay alert. You never know what the aliens are going to try and pull, and I like to be prepared for just about anything. By important, I mean teching up your armor and weapons, researching HA and jetpacks... sometimes I got off-task when securing a Hive.

Just because you've got 2 Hives secure is *NO* indication that you have the game won. Look at the TAU vs EC clan match - the marines had taken out two Hives and were almost done with the third when they just about lost the game. You have to be prepared for anything they may throw at you - and constantly teching up, securing more resources, allocating weapons and armor is a necessary part of that.

Iden · November 2002

Sure there's a difference between fades and skulks.

Too much?

I dunno, is there *too* much of a difference between normal marine and HA/HMG? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

(BTW: 2 hive upgraded fade costs 48 resources and ha/hmg costs 55 I know, but HMGs tear up fades if you don't try to engage them from around corners and acoss the length of entire corridors.)

Defcon · November 2002

Ok, problem, your playing a decent team lets say.

First alien rush: marines have left base for another hive, this is pretty obvious, at this point i'd tell everyone to kill res towers then hunt the hives immediately (usually I can tell which one they're going for).
I also tell everyone to forgot the console at base, leave it.

If the commander builds a factory at a hive, another console, a turret or two and so on he cannot afford another res in time to replace the one he lost.... therefore they lose unless they have some sweet marines :oD

The way I command people, I setup a small base, and move on straight for a hive, setting up a portal system so when they get to the hive they can transport there instantly from base, better than anything else imo (i.e. tfac), after I get the res towers I build defence at the hive and move on.

Question · November 2002

I once took out a team of 5 full upgraded HA +HMG marines + 1 jetpack marine with HMG by myself as a fade with level 3 regen and adreline.It was SO RIDICULOUSLY EASY.All i had to do was strafe unpredictably round the corner,empty energy bar's worth of acid rockets,get hit by 5 bullets max,run back to the end of the corridor,wait,rinse and repeat....By the 2nd corridor most of them had no armour left and were relying on medpacks to survive....then it was just like killing normal unarmoured marines.The jetpack guy was taking splash damage and took a bit longer to die cause he was flying all over the place.....but i REALLY shouldnt be able to take out a whole team by hit and run alone.....

I see "chase the fade" strats being recommended here....NOT a good idea...most fades wait till they get 75%-100% energy bar back then pop around the corner and fire acid rockets AGAIN.So instead of surprising the fade you get hit by rockets AGAIN.Ive NEVER ever seen a fade get surprised by marines.....unless they are typing.

RandomEngy · November 2002

In my experience a jetpack/HMG marine can take out a fade if he has decent armor upgrades. Use the jetpack to get close, and to keep a little distance while you train the HMG on him, should go splat pretty quickly.

BoddoZerg · November 2002

The fade's advantage IS mostly psychological. If 2 LMG/Pistol marines would wait until a Fade has emptied 3-4 rockets (so hes low on energy) and then charge directly at the fade, they will kill it >90% of the time. Unfortunately, what usually happens is that the Marines are too scared to dare look a Fade in the eye, and so they sit in their base and get slowly killed by splash damage.

A fade at long range will take at most 5 bullets before he ducks back to his defense chambers. A fade at close range will eat 50 bullets in the same amount of time, and likely die.

Injury · November 2002

Jetpacking is a great option, seeing how not everyone is Wild Bill Hickock with Acid Rockets, you can't depend on that completely especially with splash damage that the rockets give off. The deathcharge attack, as I've recommended before will usually drive off or kill the Fade if you have backup. Remember, behind the Fade is a player. The Fade may look like a pantheon of destruction but that's what focused fire is for. If he's trying to destroy everything, why not give everything to him?

Typically a Fade will retreat if he's lost barely 50 (<b>50!</b>) of his hitpoints to ensure he does not die on his next strafing run. Since the Fade is checked by his limited energy, four to five acid rockets before he has to back off for a few seconds to regenerate his ammunition that is when the Marines have their advantage. Of course, charging towards a Fade while he's firing (if you can manage to dodge those nasty rockets) seems to unnerve most players, when in fact they could most likely close and tear you with claws. For the most part, they'll retreat if more than one Marine is on the offensive, be wary however a typical Fade player will double back when he has enough energy and launch another salvo at his pursuers.

The Chaos Strategy

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