I have serious issues with mineshaft
Imbalanxd
Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
All the games I've played on mineshaft have been so horrendously imbalanced, I almost don't want to even bother playing when the server changes to it. One or even two rooms being really big and open is acceptable, its almost a strategic choice of whether or not you want to try and expand there. However, in mineshaft, so many of the important rooms are so big and open. It isn't even really the openness that gets to me, since I think cargo is an ok hive room. The problem is the really long open stretches that aliens need to cover.
The far right entrance to cave is just abominable. It basically makes that hive room a lost cause. Trying to push on the repair hive is pointless, unless you also have operations. Operations is a joke, and can be fully defended by as few as 2 to 3 jetpackers, which makes attempting to outrush the unavoidable exo train impossible.
Does anybody else find this map to just be far too marine biased?
The far right entrance to cave is just abominable. It basically makes that hive room a lost cause. Trying to push on the repair hive is pointless, unless you also have operations. Operations is a joke, and can be fully defended by as few as 2 to 3 jetpackers, which makes attempting to outrush the unavoidable exo train impossible.
Does anybody else find this map to just be far too marine biased?
Comments
However, with a combo of lerks and skulks you can delay cave's death enough to have a decent game most of the time.
Sorting is pretty essential to aliens, and deposit becomes a necessity if cave goes down.
From the alien side I don't find the openness of the rooms as irritating as the lack of real alternatives to go to places. Take Deposit, for example, the very common situation of having a hive in Sorting and a marine base in deposit. The shortest route means a long corridor easily coverable with an observatory. The alternative route implies going all the way to freaking Gap. Or if marines are attacking Cavern from Repair and have a gate at cave – there's not much of an option but again a frontal assault.
the last 4 or 5 games I commanded were totally one sided.
It is so easy for the Khaara to have 5 very early harvesters which are close.
Followed by a hive drop afterwards (including a shift for egg support in sorting or in crusher)
when you can hold that for 3 minutes you got enough res for every tactic you want.
you can even have a 4min onos egg. When the hive builds without gorge support you have res for an upgrade and an onos afterwards (cele due to the early shift support)
I made the observation that you really need gorges in the beginning to hold areas effectively and your team needs to respond to threatend harvesters.
But I totally agree that operations is really hard to take down.
the last 4 or 5 games I commanded were totally one sided.
It is so easy for the Khaara to have 5 very early harvesters which are close.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my most (or least) memorable game, I, as commander, took the 5 harvesters you are referring to, and more. I had a second hive by 3 minutes, and enough resources to drop an Onos by 4 (already having both shift and crag upgrades). Not trusting any of the people on my team (very small community, and I have 5x more playtime than anyone else who plays in my country). I nominated myself to take the Onos egg, so I did.
Well, I did absolutely nothing with that Onos. Why? The marines had occupied two key locations; repair and deposit. Neither of which can be assaulted by an Onos. Not one which wishes to remain alive, that is. Why not hit central drilling? We had central drilling. They didn't even bother to go for it. They did nothing, and had nothing, but they had 2 comm chairs, which means when they eventually got enough resources to get jetpacks, cave immediately fell 10 seconds thereafter. GG.
The biggest problem with pub marine teams: too much camping. Marines can easily snipe RTs all over the map if they're decent players.
if you take note of other maps, specifically the ones used in comp matches, there's a decent flanking route in almost every 'significant' room.
if marines have refinery and are pushing the crushing machine hive, almost all of your 'pub' players will just rush head-on into the marines and die, and to be fair to them it's because you have to run all the way back to caverns to double back and flank around through brew room.
just add a few more vents and it will be okay - at least one in repair room and a couple around refinery transfer. there's a really cool giant vent with giant fan in central drilling... just add another piece like that in the areas that need additional flanking routes imo.
i do like the map, but i fear it will never be a competitive/balanced map until it's flank-able.
I agree that, if the aliens win by 6 or 7 minutes, its fair game. However, after that point, when high levels of weapons and armor appear, and exos and jetpacks are out, skulks and fades essentially lose the ability to win games. By that stage, you are going to win with at least one Onos, or not at all. And those open rooms do absolutely nothing for the Onos.
I fully expect every official NS2 map to be thrown out or significantly updated 1 year from now. But in the mean time, let me just say that discovering imbalances right now is not remotely surprising.
Personally I don't like mineshaft simply because the macro-map doesn't clearly communicate the access paths as much as it does on every other map...
Refinery is also a joke, but that's a subject for another thread.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Refinery is also a joke, but that's a subject for another thread.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you should give props to map makers for trying a unique style though... more specifically the caverns etc instead of the 'space station' brush which is basically every other map.
it could use some work, but imo mineshaft is a really awesome-looking map.
refinery would be pretty nice too if only there was some kind of easy-access elevated platform for aliens to use as cover in lava falls. at the moment the marines basically get a free double RT.
it could use some work, but imo mineshaft is a really awesome-looking map.
refinery would be pretty nice too if only there was some kind of easy-access elevated platform for aliens to use as cover in lava falls. at the moment the marines basically get a free double RT.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->It's actually a "mining operation/refinery" brush set for all current maps. They're meant to be part of one giant complex. There is a new map style coming soon in the form of ns2_descent, which is a spaceship.
And yes those maps are visually quite nice but the mappers need to play more often, preferably as aliens, to better understand the need for cover.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->