Hallucinations. . . Very Exspensive 1 Trick Ponies?
MaximumSquid
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
So I've pretty well been talking down mature alien structures for a while for being too expensive for what they do
Still I revisit them occasionally and today was the first day that hallucinations actually allowed me to siege a room and didn't feel like a "Win More" ability
I had 1 onos with gorge support go in and stay on the power node during a beacon while the room was filled with BS targets
It worked, but cost me about 50 res in Hallucinations + an additional 15 res for the upgraded Shade
Very expensive and there was probably no reason why I couldn't have just done a 2nd onos egg and use Enzyme from a drifter instead
But a battle won is a battle won right?
Well not so. . . Hallucinations ability to continue being useful ends after you use them one time
Even in a public game that same trick didn't work again
Next base I tried it in was a total disaster. . . Now I'm probably in the 110 range for res spent on "fluff"
Beyond the costs here's the issues with hallucination:
Marine Scanner Will not show hallucinations on Marine's Map
<img src="http://i.minus.com/iXFO0D483L53.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Hallucinated buildings will appear to be just dropped, do not move, and do not grow
<img src="http://i.minus.com/iYNTc9YMg8YpU.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Hallucinations will clip each other and do not spread out
<img src="http://i.minus.com/iChTsuRcr3ksg.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Hallucinated buildings off of infestation also do not move like they are lacking it:
<img src="http://i.minus.com/ixRVPRgiXG7IO.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And then we got insult to injury:
It is impossible to get skulk hallucinations into a vent
Hallucinated buildings require infestation to be built
Hallucinations have super low health <i>(skulks dieing to 1 pistol shot with no upgrades, Onos dieing to a half a clip, etc)</i>
Even if this was a problem the Marines can one shot all of them with a scan
Low health on the Hallucinated buildings is probably the worst as 1 clip can plow past 5 or 6 fake whips
Hallucinations have about a minute or 2 before they disappear <i>(even the buildings)</i>
15 res for a fake hive that will just disappear if it's not killed and will die in 1 rifle + 1 pistol clip
Can't build fake buildings of structures that you do not have hives for <i>(No reason for this restriction)</i>
Hallucinations have an attack button when selected but do nothing
Marines can walk right threw hallucinations
*I need to test if hallucinations make any noise when they move around
And the one thing that I would love to build with hallucinations, but can't, is a gigantic clog wall
It's probably the only thing that will stop a marine in their tracks AND make them think twice about shooting it
<i><b>It's perfect but you cannot do it!</b></i>
#2 would be making hallucinations of Marines to make a lonely exo think that he's got tons of support
Where is that one!? Seriously. . . why not?
I have some nice suggestions for the ability, but I'll have to edit a little later today
-
Still I revisit them occasionally and today was the first day that hallucinations actually allowed me to siege a room and didn't feel like a "Win More" ability
I had 1 onos with gorge support go in and stay on the power node during a beacon while the room was filled with BS targets
It worked, but cost me about 50 res in Hallucinations + an additional 15 res for the upgraded Shade
Very expensive and there was probably no reason why I couldn't have just done a 2nd onos egg and use Enzyme from a drifter instead
But a battle won is a battle won right?
Well not so. . . Hallucinations ability to continue being useful ends after you use them one time
Even in a public game that same trick didn't work again
Next base I tried it in was a total disaster. . . Now I'm probably in the 110 range for res spent on "fluff"
Beyond the costs here's the issues with hallucination:
Marine Scanner Will not show hallucinations on Marine's Map
<img src="http://i.minus.com/iXFO0D483L53.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Hallucinated buildings will appear to be just dropped, do not move, and do not grow
<img src="http://i.minus.com/iYNTc9YMg8YpU.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Hallucinations will clip each other and do not spread out
<img src="http://i.minus.com/iChTsuRcr3ksg.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Hallucinated buildings off of infestation also do not move like they are lacking it:
<img src="http://i.minus.com/ixRVPRgiXG7IO.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And then we got insult to injury:
It is impossible to get skulk hallucinations into a vent
Hallucinated buildings require infestation to be built
Hallucinations have super low health <i>(skulks dieing to 1 pistol shot with no upgrades, Onos dieing to a half a clip, etc)</i>
Even if this was a problem the Marines can one shot all of them with a scan
Low health on the Hallucinated buildings is probably the worst as 1 clip can plow past 5 or 6 fake whips
Hallucinations have about a minute or 2 before they disappear <i>(even the buildings)</i>
15 res for a fake hive that will just disappear if it's not killed and will die in 1 rifle + 1 pistol clip
Can't build fake buildings of structures that you do not have hives for <i>(No reason for this restriction)</i>
Hallucinations have an attack button when selected but do nothing
Marines can walk right threw hallucinations
*I need to test if hallucinations make any noise when they move around
And the one thing that I would love to build with hallucinations, but can't, is a gigantic clog wall
It's probably the only thing that will stop a marine in their tracks AND make them think twice about shooting it
<i><b>It's perfect but you cannot do it!</b></i>
#2 would be making hallucinations of Marines to make a lonely exo think that he's got tons of support
Where is that one!? Seriously. . . why not?
I have some nice suggestions for the ability, but I'll have to edit a little later today
-
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Shade's hallucinate.
Shift's echo.
Crag doesn't actually have anything.
Whip's bombard. A 30 res whip that only works on infestation, and stops using its bilebomb if something is in melee range.
It has a healing wave!
I want to be able to <u>drop Hallucinations of Marine weapons</u> on the ground
When a Marine goes to pick one of these up he will drop their weapon and pick up nothing
You could also use this to drop a bunch of the same weapon on the ground where a Marine recently died so that when they run back to pick up their gun they don't know which is the real one and possibly have it disappear before they guess correctly
Alternatively the ability to cloak a marine weapon that has been dropped to prevent them from picking it up also sounds good
Maybe another function of the shade or just an extension of the ink ability
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Charlie was talking about rupture on cysts and 'why does no one use them'. Well I am baffled that he can not see the complete impracticality of them. Chambers have great passive abilities, because they work defensively. But let us think about their activated abilities and why they are not being used much.
# Static structures
You can't use them pro-actively and require marines to be near them to do so. The problem with this is that you are not 'actively' using them to make SPLIT SECOND decisions.
This game is too fast for the commander to use some of these upgrades. Cyst for example requires a marine to attack it, and then an alien to be near by to take advantage of it. This happens rarely, and if a marine hears an alien coming you tend to back off and take up an alert and aggressive stance. You also have to be near that situation as commander, aware of an upcoming engagement, and getting ready to react to it. You don't even know what your player is going to do, let alone the marine. This is deeply flawed.
Look at drifters for a good example, as soon as their enzyme range was boosted a little and health upped I now see them being used a lot. Because they are PRO-ACTIVE. You re-inforce attacks with them, and because they are scouts they tend to be in forward positions. You can also say:
"Hey team, attack here and i'll support you with a drifter."
Which means you know what is going to happen before it does.
The chambers have great passive abilities, but they need 'PRO-ACTIVE' abilities. Ink is good for putting off marines, but really is useless against a scan. Primarily because you now know aliens are in that area. Also because you can still see/hear marine/alien activity as commander.
# Maturity and Cost
Echo is useless because of this. Moving a hive is great, but if you are doing so it is because it is about to die, and if that is the case it is unlikely to stay up for long in its new location, and more than likely is that the tech point will be capped.
Its only possible use is late game when you want to have some fun with whips, otherwise it is poor considering when it becomes useful and cost. Again, by the time you can respond a structure will be dead or I find myself researching it when I am in dire trouble and just need to get out of a room. Again, too late in a game and the research comes too late.
Ah interesting. . .
The heads up is appreciated
Also as a side note the one thing I didn't test was if hallucinations can make noise while walking
I know currently that it is impossible to get a hallucinated skulk up into a vent, but that could be seriously awesome to make marines think that unseen trouble is approaching
A Hallucination of a skulk that leaps past a group of marines and runs off in the room behind them could also have a nice effect
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Ah thats good to know. Are they supposed to grow like a real structure?
Also why do hallucinations have where they were built in their info window?
After all, hallucinations are aquired at rather expensive costs (25 res for a mature Shade, in addition to cost of each phantom), and are not permanent. Marines should require direct sight (and shooting) to distinguish real aliens from "hallucinations" (which is easy, since hallucinations spew black particles when damaged).
Could make them attack, I guess, but not deal damage to players or something. Like, say your Hive is getting hit with an Exo rush, so you throw hallucinations at the Marine base to scare the Comm into Beaconing, leaving the Exos to get ground up.