<!--quoteo(post=2018486:date=Nov 10 2012, 05:20 PM:name=dePARA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dePARA @ Nov 10 2012, 05:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018486"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pls, UWE, give us 1st person spec, that would be a great step forward. Schimmel told me, it was so easy to implement. Where is it? WANT<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am sure Schimmel didn't say it was easy to implement, otherwise he would have implemented it himself already. There needs to be some changes to the engine to do it properly - and we want to do it properly. We discuss it a lot around the office, so it is a priority, but there are some larger issues that we've been focused on fixing first, that are keeping people from being able to play the game at all.
By the way, the guy you accused of hacking in the other thread is an <a href="http://www.legit-proof.com/search/?method=guid&query=STEAM_0%3A1%3A12152866" target="_blank">ESEA-IM TF2 player</a> and a decent one too, so maybe he's just better than you?
<!--quoteo(post=2018393:date=Nov 10 2012, 08:50 AM:name=Safewood)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Safewood @ Nov 10 2012, 08:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please stop trying to raise pitchforks, and create unnecessary drama. It's much easier to make cheats bypass anti-cheat, then for anti-cheats to detect cheats. EasyAntiCheat, ESL Wire, PunkBuster etc. are all so easy to bypass, and it takes a whole dedicated team to keep updating these to catch weeks old hacks and at worst even a month. That said, VAC won't help you with anything. It's the most useless anti-cheat system there is.
Now, you're going to create fuss about this with a developer team of a whole 9 people in it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been called a cheater multiple times too even though I was a very average player during beta. The skill level on pubs is so low right now that racking 40/0 scores as a marine is not rare at all.
Also Charlie just said that anti-cheat is pretty high on their priority list in the ESL cast.
** I am just lightly annihilating part of this thing. --Techercizer.
The quicker you guys ignore his baseless insults and inflammatory remarks, the quicker this thread can die and the quicker we can all get back to complaining about fast Oni and Shotguns.
<!--quoteo(post=2018675:date=Nov 10 2012, 09:13 PM:name=JayTac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JayTac @ Nov 10 2012, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018675"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pubs are doomed if they can't keep up then.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Every single game is and has always been doomed. NS2 is no worse than every other triple A games when it comes to catch cheaters. UWE's best bet is ESL's anti-cheat system Wire, other than that, it's the same result as any other popular game out there, that isn't completely server-sided.
I have near 400+ hours into NS2 and have NEVER seen a hacker. I have however seen people accused of hacking on a near daily basis. When in reality it was just a competent player.
I've even been accused of hacking myself multiple times, and I'm not even that great. It's an amazing feeling having someone call you out on hacking and you're just having a good game.
<!--quoteo(post=2018440:date=Nov 10 2012, 11:48 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Nov 10 2012, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018440"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So THIS is what people are complaining about these days? You guys (OP) must be desperate for a little drama around here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2018468:date=Nov 10 2012, 12:04 PM:name=dota girl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dota girl @ Nov 10 2012, 12:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018468"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->anti hack is a pipe dream, it really doesn't work. It can help curb things but if people want to cheat they will cheat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's all that is needed. A deterrent to prevent "non-cheaters" from firing up a hack. The real cheaters will always find a hack that gets around anti-cheat and they will even go as far as to pay for it. Those people shouldn't be the concern of this thread. But with no serious cheating punishment, cheating in NS2 could get out of hand really fast. Also, if there was anti-cheat like VAC, those "real cheaters" will always have to fear that one day their hacks may be detected and that they'll be VAC banned. It makes people think twice about using cheats.
<!--quoteo(post=2018440:date=Nov 10 2012, 11:48 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Nov 10 2012, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018440"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So THIS is what people are complaining about these days? You guys (OP) must be desperate for a little drama around here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> People who are complaining about anti-cheat (<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=122284&st=0" target="_blank">including myself</a>) are only doing so because we enjoy playing NS2. We don't want to see it overrun with cheaters who will face no real punishment. Imagine playing as an Alien and trying to melee an aimbotter.
Maybe you don't understand how crazy it is for a multiplayer-only game to launch in 2012 without anti-cheat.
<!--quoteo(post=2019072:date=Nov 10 2012, 05:48 PM:name=Snypr18)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Snypr18 @ Nov 10 2012, 05:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1 on the first person spectate mode. Thats the only sure way to detect aimbotters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You probably still wouldn't notice it. Most aimbots have smoothing options and other countermeasures to make you seem legit. So even if there were aimbots present, it's unlikely you'd notice cause the guy would simply aim close to the target and then it would auto follow smoothly. Also it's quite difficult in this game to tell something like a wall hack because experienced players generally know hiding spots and will look at them when they walk into a room or if they hear something. Things like scan and using the map also make this harder to notice.
I haven't actually seen people using aimbots, but have been accused several times. The only cheats I've really seen being used are speed hacks to teleport which is fairly ineffective, and pistol scripts that let you unload a pistol magazine in about .3-.4 seconds <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXLDuUXj8ww" target="_blank">video here</a>.
<!--quoteo(post=2019087:date=Nov 10 2012, 10:03 PM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Nov 10 2012, 10:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You probably still wouldn't notice it. Most aimbots have smoothing options and other countermeasures to make you seem legit. So even if there were aimbots present, it's unlikely you'd notice cause the guy would simply aim close to the target and then it would auto follow smoothly. Also it's quite difficult in this game to tell something like a wall hack because experienced players generally know hiding spots and will look at them when they walk into a room or if they hear something. Things like scan and using the map also make this harder to notice.
I haven't actually seen people using aimbots, but have been accused several times. The only cheats I've really seen being used are speed hacks to teleport which is fairly ineffective, and pistol scripts that let you unload a pistol magazine in about .3-.4 seconds <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXLDuUXj8ww" target="_blank">video here</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> "Most aimbots" won't work for NS. They will have to be custom written for the new engine. Additionally, confirmed hackers can actually be banned by UWE. This didn't used to be the case in NS1. Finally, NS1 hasn't even been out for a weak. I hate that this is even an issue right now. There is maybe 2-3 people hacking with badly written hacks they made themselves. Hacking is not prolific in this game right now. The VAST majority of this is competitive players smurfing and crappy players mad that they suck.
<!--quoteo(post=2019156:date=Nov 10 2012, 08:19 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 10 2012, 08:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Most aimbots" won't work for NS. They will have to be custom written for the new engine. Additionally, confirmed hackers can actually be banned by UWE. This didn't used to be the case in NS1. Finally, NS1 hasn't even been out for a weak. I hate that this is even an issue right now. There is maybe 2-3 people hacking with badly written hacks they made themselves. Hacking is not prolific in this game right now. The VAST majority of this is competitive players smurfing and crappy players mad that they suck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Glad to know I'm "a crappy player mad that I suck" when someone kills me. From across the room. In the dark. While I'm moving slowly and behind him. With no scan.
<!--quoteo(post=2019279:date=Nov 11 2012, 12:13 AM:name=MerlinCross)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MerlinCross @ Nov 11 2012, 12:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glad to know I'm "a crappy player mad that I suck" when someone kills me. From across the room. In the dark. While I'm moving slowly and behind him. With no scan.
Huh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Basically, yeah. It's not hard.
Dying doesn't make you a bad player, but blaming your failure on others instead of trying to improve does.
<!--quoteo(post=2019306:date=Nov 11 2012, 12:08 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 11 2012, 12:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019306"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Basically, yeah. It's not hard.
Dying doesn't make you a bad player, but blaming your failure on others instead of trying to improve does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Difference between dumb luck and hacking. Dumb luck happens every so often. Like turning the corner blind and running into an Onos. Or a shotgun. Hacking is when someone does something that should be humanly impossible, several times over.
I'm sorry but when someone is pulling off impossible, insanely 'lucky' moves like that, I'm thinking "This can't be normal human reflexes". More so when they seem to auto 180, shoot, and then 180 back into the direction they were moving.
Also, this has been in beta for about a year now? Couldn't someone in the beta come up with an aim bot in a year? Don't get me wrong, those in beta will be those that just got it a week ago, but still. There are going to be hackers, no game is free of them. But there probably aren't as many of them out there as some people think they are, given that this isn't a really big name game. My honest opinion, I saw 2, out of a week of playing.
<!--quoteo(post=2019156:date=Nov 10 2012, 07:19 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 10 2012, 07:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Most aimbots" won't work for NS. They will have to be custom written for the new engine. Additionally, confirmed hackers can actually be banned by UWE. This didn't used to be the case in NS1. Finally, NS1 hasn't even been out for a weak. I hate that this is even an issue right now. There is maybe 2-3 people hacking with badly written hacks they made themselves. Hacking is not prolific in this game right now. The VAST majority of this is competitive players smurfing and crappy players mad that they suck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 hasn't been out for a "weak" (as you call it)? Well NS2 has been out for almost 2 weeks now, and as someone pointed out the beta has been around quite awhile. The problem is that NS2 is supposed to be modable so they leave a pretty huge chunk of the core game scripts in plain sight. That means really anyone with the right skills can write a decent lua script or hook. Contrary to what you say, about "most aimbots" they are mostly open source so adapting them isn't terribly difficult. A quick google search will give you an idea. But it's kind of a small community so I doubt there are too many people trying to make aimbots for this.
This thread is a complete minefield of misinformation. I suggest no one use it to determine what UWE's anti cheat policy is. We will continue to update the whole community about anti-cheat in news posts, twitter, fb etc but not in a thread as aggressive, speculative and unfriendly as this one. The first few posts in particular are not good examples of encouraging us to reply.
Yeah don't listen to this Grizzlyyy guy, he doesn't know what he's talking about and he's a major troll. He was accusing me of cheating tonight too... I play as the GODDAMN BATMAN and I've never been accused of cheating until this guy came along
<!--quoteo(post=2030991:date=Nov 20 2012, 10:41 PM:name=solidsnake00)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (solidsnake00 @ Nov 20 2012, 10:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030991"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah don't listen to this Grizzlyyy guy, he doesn't know what he's talking about and he's a major troll. He was accusing me of cheating tonight too... I play as the GODDAMN BATMAN and I've never been accused of cheating until this guy came along<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes has nothing to do with the fact that your'e on a purchased 6 digit account. Steamrep says your a scammer and that you have numerous scammers in your friends list. Legit-proof shows that you've ridden rosters for every competitive team you've been on and not played a single round of competitive play. Has nothing to do with that. It just adds to your legitimacy. Riiiiight...
I'm sure anyone with any skill with the pistol will agree that you are consistently being called out for cheating by players with little to no skill either for your accuracy or for your rate of fire. I have been called a cheater by as many as 4 members of the opposing team in the same game. I use a much different control setup than most people;with my spacebar as my primary fire button. I have learned to use it extremely quickly but many seem to think its beyond just a fast firing rate and must mean that I use a bind or script. This is not the case. I guess I should just take it as a compliment when people accuse me of cheating but it makes me angry when people are just so bad at the game that they believe the only way I'm killing them is by cheating.
<!--quoteo(post=2031264:date=Nov 21 2012, 08:31 AM:name=grizzlyyy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (grizzlyyy @ Nov 21 2012, 08:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031264"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes has nothing to do with the fact that your'e on a purchased 6 digit account. Steamrep says your a scammer and that you have numerous scammers in your friends list. Legit-proof shows that you've ridden rosters for every competitive team you've been on and not played a single round of competitive play. Has nothing to do with that. It just adds to your legitimacy. Riiiiight...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suggest reading the text first, it explains the pictures. <a href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1243123/solid_snake2.png" target="_blank">https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1243123/solid_snake2.png</a>
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--quoteo(post=2019366:date=Nov 11 2012, 09:47 AM:name=Strayan (NS2HD))--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strayan (NS2HD) @ Nov 11 2012, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This thread is a complete minefield of misinformation. I suggest no one use it to determine what UWE's anti cheat policy is. We will continue to update the whole community about anti-cheat in news posts, twitter, fb etc but not in a thread as aggressive, speculative and unfriendly as this one. The first few posts in particular are not good examples of encouraging us to reply.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
I am sure Schimmel didn't say it was easy to implement, otherwise he would have implemented it himself already. There needs to be some changes to the engine to do it properly - and we want to do it properly. We discuss it a lot around the office, so it is a priority, but there are some larger issues that we've been focused on fixing first, that are keeping people from being able to play the game at all.
Patience.
--Cory
EasyAntiCheat, ESL Wire, PunkBuster etc. are all so easy to bypass, and it takes a whole dedicated team to keep updating these to catch weeks old hacks and at worst even a month.
That said, VAC won't help you with anything. It's the most useless anti-cheat system there is.
Now, you're going to create fuss about this with a developer team of a whole 9 people in it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pubs are doomed if they can't keep up then.
Also Charlie just said that anti-cheat is pretty high on their priority list in the ESL cast.
The quicker you guys ignore his baseless insults and inflammatory remarks, the quicker this thread can die and the quicker we can all get back to complaining about fast Oni and Shotguns.
Every single game is and has always been doomed. NS2 is no worse than every other triple A games when it comes to catch cheaters.
UWE's best bet is ESL's anti-cheat system Wire, other than that, it's the same result as any other popular game out there, that isn't completely server-sided.
I've even been accused of hacking myself multiple times, and I'm not even that great. It's an amazing feeling having someone call you out on hacking and you're just having a good game.
<!--quoteo(post=2018440:date=Nov 10 2012, 11:48 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Nov 10 2012, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018440"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So THIS is what people are complaining about these days? You guys (OP) must be desperate for a little drama around here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^this
That's all that is needed. A deterrent to prevent "non-cheaters" from firing up a hack. The real cheaters will always find a hack that gets around anti-cheat and they will even go as far as to pay for it. Those people shouldn't be the concern of this thread. But with no serious cheating punishment, cheating in NS2 could get out of hand really fast. Also, if there was anti-cheat like VAC, those "real cheaters" will always have to fear that one day their hacks may be detected and that they'll be VAC banned. It makes people think twice about using cheats.
<!--quoteo(post=2018440:date=Nov 10 2012, 11:48 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Nov 10 2012, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018440"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So THIS is what people are complaining about these days? You guys (OP) must be desperate for a little drama around here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People who are complaining about anti-cheat (<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=122284&st=0" target="_blank">including myself</a>) are only doing so because we enjoy playing NS2. We don't want to see it overrun with cheaters who will face no real punishment. Imagine playing as an Alien and trying to melee an aimbotter.
Maybe you don't understand how crazy it is for a multiplayer-only game to launch in 2012 without anti-cheat.
You probably still wouldn't notice it. Most aimbots have smoothing options and other countermeasures to make you seem legit. So even if there were aimbots present, it's unlikely you'd notice cause the guy would simply aim close to the target and then it would auto follow smoothly. Also it's quite difficult in this game to tell something like a wall hack because experienced players generally know hiding spots and will look at them when they walk into a room or if they hear something. Things like scan and using the map also make this harder to notice.
I haven't actually seen people using aimbots, but have been accused several times. The only cheats I've really seen being used are speed hacks to teleport which is fairly ineffective, and pistol scripts that let you unload a pistol magazine in about .3-.4 seconds <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXLDuUXj8ww" target="_blank">video here</a>.
I haven't actually seen people using aimbots, but have been accused several times. The only cheats I've really seen being used are speed hacks to teleport which is fairly ineffective, and pistol scripts that let you unload a pistol magazine in about .3-.4 seconds <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXLDuUXj8ww" target="_blank">video here</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Most aimbots" won't work for NS. They will have to be custom written for the new engine. Additionally, confirmed hackers can actually be banned by UWE. This didn't used to be the case in NS1. Finally, NS1 hasn't even been out for a weak. I hate that this is even an issue right now. There is maybe 2-3 people hacking with badly written hacks they made themselves. Hacking is not prolific in this game right now. The VAST majority of this is competitive players smurfing and crappy players mad that they suck.
Glad to know I'm "a crappy player mad that I suck" when someone kills me. From across the room. In the dark. While I'm moving slowly and behind him. With no scan.
Huh.
Huh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basically, yeah. It's not hard.
Dying doesn't make you a bad player, but blaming your failure on others instead of trying to improve does.
Dying doesn't make you a bad player, but blaming your failure on others instead of trying to improve does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Difference between dumb luck and hacking. Dumb luck happens every so often. Like turning the corner blind and running into an Onos. Or a shotgun. Hacking is when someone does something that should be humanly impossible, several times over.
I'm sorry but when someone is pulling off impossible, insanely 'lucky' moves like that, I'm thinking "This can't be normal human reflexes". More so when they seem to auto 180, shoot, and then 180 back into the direction they were moving.
Also, this has been in beta for about a year now? Couldn't someone in the beta come up with an aim bot in a year? Don't get me wrong, those in beta will be those that just got it a week ago, but still. There are going to be hackers, no game is free of them. But there probably aren't as many of them out there as some people think they are, given that this isn't a really big name game. My honest opinion, I saw 2, out of a week of playing.
NS1 hasn't been out for a "weak" (as you call it)? Well NS2 has been out for almost 2 weeks now, and as someone pointed out the beta has been around quite awhile. The problem is that NS2 is supposed to be modable so they leave a pretty huge chunk of the core game scripts in plain sight. That means really anyone with the right skills can write a decent lua script or hook. Contrary to what you say, about "most aimbots" they are mostly open source so adapting them isn't terribly difficult. A quick google search will give you an idea. But it's kind of a small community so I doubt there are too many people trying to make aimbots for this.
Yes has nothing to do with the fact that your'e on a purchased 6 digit account. Steamrep says your a scammer and that you have numerous scammers in your friends list. Legit-proof shows that you've ridden rosters for every competitive team you've been on and not played a single round of competitive play. Has nothing to do with that. It just adds to your legitimacy. Riiiiight...
I suggest reading the text first, it explains the pictures.
<a href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1243123/solid_snake2.png" target="_blank">https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1243123/solid_snake2.png</a>
much love dough.
Yup.