<!--quoteo(post=2019964:date=Nov 11 2012, 11:30 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 11 2012, 11:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019964"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So If I missed the game, is there anywhere I can go to watch a recording of the stream? I tried the esltv twitch page, but they don't have a video of it up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2020043:date=Nov 11 2012, 01:15 PM:name=Paajtor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paajtor @ Nov 11 2012, 01:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think I've read/heard somewhere, that they will put the vids online tomorrow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2012
<!--quoteo(post=2019374:date=Nov 11 2012, 10:55 AM:name=Strayan (NS2HD))--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strayan (NS2HD) @ Nov 11 2012, 10:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019374"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What an insane night. Charlie, the teams and I did not get out of the studio until 2am local time, and we had to get to our first of many return flights at 6am, so please excuse the radio silence. Expect a full write up on Monday. I would do it now in the airport but I left my laptop charger in the studio dammit!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...and then Flayra/Exertus/Arc/some of the people from the audience chugged down beers and talked crap in the hotel bar until we got thrown out at 4am (the poor hotel bar employees usually close it at 1am :D). Great event man, look forward to the writeup. I'm sure the teams/players will be posting their experiences soon as well.
<!--quoteo(post=2019465:date=Nov 11 2012, 12:33 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Nov 11 2012, 12:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fana was definitely on performance enhancing drugs. He kept touching his nose during the entire thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have itchy nose syndrome.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->...could also be all that coke I snorted in the bathroom between rounds.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Just wanted to add some of my thoughts here. Team playing as aliens won once, how come was the score 5-2 then? Like, wouldn't teams be on fighting more about who plays Marines rather than fighting in the game? It was really, really sad to see aliens do so poorly. Aliens are getting destroyed in public games and publicity like this won't make the crying stop. (Even though I think that Aliens are just fine, and if you play good on pubs you'll definitely have a shot in wining.)
What do the professional players think about the balance between factions?
Also, dropping healthpacks and building armories is really obnoxious mechanic. Blocking ways and then just welding them up and holding the line makes a really boring game. Dropping healthpacks on the other hand feels like really unfair mechanic which doesn't make any sense at all when you think about it. How do you explain the healthpacks, there's this guy with long beard and crazy ideas, if you have faith in him you'll never go hungry (for a healthpack) again? If you have the technology to drop magical healing kits, I believe you should also have the technology to just teleport/drop bombs straight at them.
<!--quoteo(post=2020488:date=Nov 12 2012, 02:20 AM:name=Machahiko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Machahiko @ Nov 12 2012, 02:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020488"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, dropping healthpacks and building armories is really obnoxious mechanic. Blocking ways and then just welding them up and holding the line makes a really boring game. Dropping healthpacks on the other hand feels like really unfair mechanic which doesn't make any sense at all when you think about it. How do you explain the healthpacks, there's this guy with long beard and crazy ideas, if you have faith in him you'll never go hungry (for a healthpack) again? If you have the technology to drop magical healing kits, I believe you should also have the technology to just teleport/drop bombs straight at them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's been part of the game since NS1. Nanites do it. (this is code for "it's in for gameplay reasons" and realism takes second fiddle to gameplay)
I think the building blocking has some big advantages compared to NS1. Not only are the NS2 buildings bigger and blockier, but the reliance on onos and some inflexibility in skulk movement add up to it also.
<!--quoteo(post=2018846:date=Nov 11 2012, 01:58 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Nov 11 2012, 01:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018846"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wat dafuq did exertus do in the last match? 3rd hive before leap? Before the 2nd upgrade?
Leap in the 26th minute? I don't get it. Please explain.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Leap is nice. However we feel that generally the best build order currently is something that has an early second hive, 2-3 RTs, early onos and carapace after that. There is no room for early leap there, as the carapace is needed for onos and also helps the skulks a lot. Also, the onos can tank a lot of the hits, allowing skulks to close in, and in addition to that we rely on good skulk movement (with wallhop) to combat the marines. Sure, the leap is a great backup, but many other things are more important. Or maybe we are just wrong, dunno. We will of course keep tweaking the build orders and trying different things. I think the main problem in that last match was that while we gained the upper hand in the early-to-mid game IIRC, we could not do enough damage with our map control. Archaeas effective defence allowed them to hang in until the jetpacks came and we squandered our chances. We probably should have gone for 2nd onos and tried to hit the marine start win button or something.
EDIT: 3rd hives were mostly there to give us a safety buffer and to let us do base trades. We just couldn't budge the marines even with the hive diversion and could possibly have fared better with a different medium-to-late-game tech plan. Oh well. Live and learn.
Oh well. Tram really is our Achilles' heel. We really need to put more hours into learning how to play that map. You might have noticed us playing solidly on both Summit and Veil and not really knowing what to do on Tram. I think that last round was really the first time against Archaea that we actually could get that advantage in Tram and not get outplayed in the early-to-mid game ;)
Anyways... The event was an absolute blast and certainly the pinnacle of my FPS 'career' so far and I'm really looking forward to watching the video. Also, I think this final showed that when compared to some of the earlier tournament finals vs Archaea, we have improved a lot. Although we did suffer a solid 5-2 loss, we were able to put up a good fight and have some of the most enjoyable NS2 games we've ever played. Archaea has dominated in the earlier tournaments, but this is about to change and soon, very soon we will crush Archaea like puny insects. This is known!
PS. I really do like the current build a lot. Sure, there are problems, but I think that the finals showed that there is room to work around the imbalances and problems. Most of the rounds were pretty even and we had a lot of fun. Nonetheless, we did take full advantage of Flayra being present and talked balance with him for hours, so I think most of the common gripes were addressed ;)
PSS. Big thanks to UWE and ESL for arranging this event and to everyone who was there. Special thanks to all the players and especially to Archaea for always letting us be the ever-popular underdogs ;)
Any particular reason you didn't give a GMT start time while giving four different times for the US zones when the match was held in Europe?
If you are going to have an international profile you want to watch that kind of oversight - it makes it look like you cbf with informing your non-American customers.
As it was I cbf trying to translate US timezones so I just didn't bother.
edit: my mistake I assume CET is central European time though I'm guessing, it would have been a good idea to include the GMT time as it is internationally recognised and not an obscure (to the rest of the world) acronym.
<!--quoteo(post=2020550:date=Nov 12 2012, 10:04 AM:name=Squirreli_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squirreli_ @ Nov 12 2012, 10:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020550"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Leap is nice. However we feel that generally the best build order currently is something that has an early second hive, 2-3 RTs, early onos and carapace after that. There is no room for early leap there, as the carapace is needed for onos and also helps the skulks a lot. Also, the onos can tank a lot of the hits, allowing skulks to close in, and in addition to that we rely on good skulk movement (with wallhop) to combat the marines. Sure, the leap is a great backup, but many other things are more important. Or maybe we are just wrong, dunno. We will of course keep tweaking the build orders and trying different things. I think the main problem in that last match was that while we gained the upper hand in the early-to-mid game IIRC, we could not do enough damage with our map control. Archaeas effective defence allowed them to hang in until the jetpacks came and we squandered our chances. We probably should have gone for 2nd onos and tried to hit the marine start win button or something.
EDIT: 3rd hives were mostly there to give us a safety buffer and to let us do base trades. We just couldn't budge the marines even with the hive diversion and could possibly have fared better with a different medium-to-late-game tech plan. Oh well. Live and learn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand this. But even if you dismiss Leap and focus on other things. A 3rd hive safety buffer goes never before the second upgrade. (cele for example) Even spores, bilebomb or blink would be more important.
The other thing I didn't understand was, why you haven't pushed the marine base power with the onos and one bilebombing gorge. Also the onos is most effective in early game. Rushing the shipping base with the whole team at this point (instead of bashing that armory) would have ended it very quickly. Even if you had traded warehouse for it. But I understand that this is not as easy as I make it sound. They may have scanned your attack and reacted before you could have moved in to shipping. And there is a high risk of losing the onos if this rush fails.
Anyway. It was very entertaining and fun to watch all the games. I hope I see more from you soon. ;)
€dit: Oh, one other question! Could you hear what Hugh and the other moderator said during the matches and could you look on their screens? Sneaky hive drops are useless in this case.
<!--quoteo(post=2020580:date=Nov 12 2012, 01:16 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Nov 12 2012, 01:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->€dit: Oh, one other question! Could you hear what Hugh and the other moderator said during the matches and could you look on their screens? Sneaky hive drops are useless in this case.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't see, couldn't hear. The arrangements were very good!
<!--quoteo(post=2020550:date=Nov 12 2012, 03:04 AM:name=Squirreli_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squirreli_ @ Nov 12 2012, 03:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020550"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nonetheless, we did take full advantage of Flayra being present and talked balance with him for hours, so I think most of the common gripes were addressed ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
kumbaya moment?
will be interesting to see what comes of this. there are good proposals posted here, but there is *so* much noise. one on one with elite players with tons of hours with NS2 over its many iterations much more valuable than forum teeth gnashing.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
For those who missed the event or want to watch it again I have posted a short roundup on ns2hub, along with the video embedded and the start times of each game.
You can find it here: <a href="http://ns2hub.com/article/54/" target="_blank">http://ns2hub.com/article/54/</a>
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=2020670:date=Nov 12 2012, 01:30 PM:name=Argathor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Argathor @ Nov 12 2012, 01:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020670"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For those who missed the event or want to watch it again I have posted a short roundup on ns2hub, along with the video embedded and the start times of each game.
You can find it here: <a href="http://ns2hub.com/article/54/" target="_blank">http://ns2hub.com/article/54/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good job, this should be helpful.
<!--quoteo(post=2020656:date=Nov 12 2012, 12:57 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Nov 12 2012, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020656"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->can you guys give a clue as to what charlie is thinking about changing in upcoming patches wrt balance?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't think any of us can do that. We talked about many, many different topics, and I got the idea that there will be changes coming, but the exact nature of those changes is something only he knows, and even that may change between now and the next patch.
He did say that they were planning to have big patches every 3 months, with many smaller patches in between, though.
<!--quoteo(post=2020656:date=Nov 12 2012, 03:57 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Nov 12 2012, 03:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020656"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->can you guys give a clue as to what charlie is thinking about changing in upcoming patches wrt balance?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I remember Charlie mentioning on stream that early onos was a big focus of that discussion and changes to early onos will be addressed over the next few patches.
He also mentioned that there is a huge list of stuff on their to-do list (they have the intention of releasing "hundreds" more patches), off the top of my head he mentioned early onos, first-person spectate, and gorge tunnels as current priorities. Also that they had implemented a small boost to fade (blink?) that was unintentionally left out of 1.0, so they will be adding that back in.
I just watched this whole darned thing again. Awesome! I especially enjoyed watching Scrajm's commander view while listening to the commentator audio simultaneously (3 seconds difference if you want to do this).
It was incredible getting all these players in a room together. We had a great time talking, playing and partying. It was a big warm fuzzy meeting people we've talked with virtually for so long. I hope this is the just the beginning.
Anybody happen to know the catchy bit of eurotechno at the <a href="http://www.twitch.tv/esltv/b/339118814" target="_blank">beginning of the stream?</a>
Comments
Bumping this question
Thanks
...and then Flayra/Exertus/Arc/some of the people from the audience chugged down beers and talked crap in the hotel bar until we got thrown out at 4am (the poor hotel bar employees usually close it at 1am :D). Great event man, look forward to the writeup. I'm sure the teams/players will be posting their experiences soon as well.
<!--quoteo(post=2019465:date=Nov 11 2012, 12:33 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Nov 11 2012, 12:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fana was definitely on performance enhancing drugs.
He kept touching his nose during the entire thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have itchy nose syndrome.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->...could also be all that coke I snorted in the bathroom between rounds.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Just wanted to add some of my thoughts here. Team playing as aliens won once, how come was the score 5-2 then? Like, wouldn't teams be on fighting more about who plays Marines rather than fighting in the game? It was really, really sad to see aliens do so poorly. Aliens are getting destroyed in public games and publicity like this won't make the crying stop. (Even though I think that Aliens are just fine, and if you play good on pubs you'll definitely have a shot in wining.)
What do the professional players think about the balance between factions?
Also, dropping healthpacks and building armories is really obnoxious mechanic. Blocking ways and then just welding them up and holding the line makes a really boring game. Dropping healthpacks on the other hand feels like really unfair mechanic which doesn't make any sense at all when you think about it. How do you explain the healthpacks, there's this guy with long beard and crazy ideas, if you have faith in him you'll never go hungry (for a healthpack) again? If you have the technology to drop magical healing kits, I believe you should also have the technology to just teleport/drop bombs straight at them.
It's been part of the game since NS1. Nanites do it. (this is code for "it's in for gameplay reasons" and realism takes second fiddle to gameplay)
Fana, GG! Keep coking. It seems to work for you :)
3rd hive before leap? Before the 2nd upgrade?
Leap in the 26th minute? I don't get it. Please explain.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Leap is nice. However we feel that generally the best build order currently is something that has an early second hive, 2-3 RTs, early onos and carapace after that. There is no room for early leap there, as the carapace is needed for onos and also helps the skulks a lot. Also, the onos can tank a lot of the hits, allowing skulks to close in, and in addition to that we rely on good skulk movement (with wallhop) to combat the marines. Sure, the leap is a great backup, but many other things are more important. Or maybe we are just wrong, dunno. We will of course keep tweaking the build orders and trying different things. I think the main problem in that last match was that while we gained the upper hand in the early-to-mid game IIRC, we could not do enough damage with our map control. Archaeas effective defence allowed them to hang in until the jetpacks came and we squandered our chances. We probably should have gone for 2nd onos and tried to hit the marine start win button or something.
EDIT: 3rd hives were mostly there to give us a safety buffer and to let us do base trades. We just couldn't budge the marines even with the hive diversion and could possibly have fared better with a different medium-to-late-game tech plan. Oh well. Live and learn.
Oh well. Tram really is our Achilles' heel. We really need to put more hours into learning how to play that map. You might have noticed us playing solidly on both Summit and Veil and not really knowing what to do on Tram. I think that last round was really the first time against Archaea that we actually could get that advantage in Tram and not get outplayed in the early-to-mid game ;)
Anyways... The event was an absolute blast and certainly the pinnacle of my FPS 'career' so far and I'm really looking forward to watching the video. Also, I think this final showed that when compared to some of the earlier tournament finals vs Archaea, we have improved a lot. Although we did suffer a solid 5-2 loss, we were able to put up a good fight and have some of the most enjoyable NS2 games we've ever played. Archaea has dominated in the earlier tournaments, but this is about to change and soon, very soon we will crush Archaea like puny insects. This is known!
PS. I really do like the current build a lot. Sure, there are problems, but I think that the finals showed that there is room to work around the imbalances and problems. Most of the rounds were pretty even and we had a lot of fun. Nonetheless, we did take full advantage of Flayra being present and talked balance with him for hours, so I think most of the common gripes were addressed ;)
PSS. Big thanks to UWE and ESL for arranging this event and to everyone who was there. Special thanks to all the players and especially to Archaea for always letting us be the ever-popular underdogs ;)
If you are going to have an international profile you want to watch that kind of oversight - it makes it look like you cbf with informing your non-American customers.
As it was I cbf trying to translate US timezones so I just didn't bother.
edit: my mistake I assume CET is central European time though I'm guessing, it would have been a good idea to include the GMT time as it is internationally recognised and not an obscure (to the rest of the world) acronym.
EDIT: 3rd hives were mostly there to give us a safety buffer and to let us do base trades. We just couldn't budge the marines even with the hive diversion and could possibly have fared better with a different medium-to-late-game tech plan. Oh well. Live and learn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand this. But even if you dismiss Leap and focus on other things. A 3rd hive safety buffer goes never before the second upgrade. (cele for example) Even spores, bilebomb or blink would be more important.
The other thing I didn't understand was, why you haven't pushed the marine base power with the onos and one bilebombing gorge. Also the onos is most effective in early game. Rushing the shipping base with the whole team at this point (instead of bashing that armory) would have ended it very quickly. Even if you had traded warehouse for it. But I understand that this is not as easy as I make it sound. They may have scanned your attack and reacted before you could have moved in to shipping. And there is a high risk of losing the onos if this rush fails.
Anyway. It was very entertaining and fun to watch all the games. I hope I see more from you soon. ;)
€dit: Oh, one other question! Could you hear what Hugh and the other moderator said during the matches and could you look on their screens? Sneaky hive drops are useless in this case.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC" target="_blank">Coordinated Universal Time</a><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Couldn't see, couldn't hear. The arrangements were very good!
kumbaya moment?
will be interesting to see what comes of this. there are good proposals posted here, but there is *so* much noise. one on one with elite players with tons of hours with NS2 over its many iterations much more valuable than forum teeth gnashing.
looking forward to future improvements.
You can find it here: <a href="http://ns2hub.com/article/54/" target="_blank">http://ns2hub.com/article/54/</a>
You can find it here: <a href="http://ns2hub.com/article/54/" target="_blank">http://ns2hub.com/article/54/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good job, this should be helpful.
<!--quoteo(post=2020656:date=Nov 12 2012, 12:57 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Nov 12 2012, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020656"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->can you guys give a clue as to what charlie is thinking about changing in upcoming patches wrt balance?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't think any of us can do that. We talked about many, many different topics, and I got the idea that there will be changes coming, but the exact nature of those changes is something only he knows, and even that may change between now and the next patch.
He did say that they were planning to have big patches every 3 months, with many smaller patches in between, though.
I remember Charlie mentioning on stream that early onos was a big focus of that discussion and changes to early onos will be addressed over the next few patches.
He also mentioned that there is a huge list of stuff on their to-do list (they have the intention of releasing "hundreds" more patches), off the top of my head he mentioned early onos, first-person spectate, and gorge tunnels as current priorities. Also that they had implemented a small boost to fade (blink?) that was unintentionally left out of 1.0, so they will be adding that back in.
It was incredible getting all these players in a room together. We had a great time talking, playing and partying. It was a big warm fuzzy meeting people we've talked with virtually for so long. I hope this is the just the beginning.
And Flayra, I'll take this opportunity to point you to the "Armouries and Hit and Run" thread. :P<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
EDIT: Icarus - Madeon. Sick beats!