remove "in combat" nerf

maD maX

<div class="IPBDescription">of upgrades</div>If one evolves celerity that alien is now an advanced lifeform that IS faster why would entering combat devolve his speed. If combat slowes a celerity skulk because he is taking damage, why doesn't the normal skulk slow down taking damage? And why would me attacking say a RT with bilebomb make me slower? Does a marine take longer to reload when he is in combat? does the marine loose the ability to sprint if he shoots a couple of granades?

ChaosXBeing

I see what you mean, though celerity as an upgrade could better be described as something that raises your <i>maximum</i> speed, not something that gives you a blanket speed boost.

I'll admit that that might be nice if it did work that way, but that's how things stand ATM.

yehawmcgraw

And UWE claims they dislike hidden mechanics. Wish I knew about this before, it would really influence my decision: losing speed when I need it the most.

Avs

Yes this is true. It provides a % speed boost only in non-combat and after several seconds of moving. This allows aliens to move faster around the map, but not in combat (which was the case in NS1). Celerity is now much worse as an upgrade depending on the skill level of your alien team (ie. silence/regeneration are superior). I don't know why they changed it, but I feel like a huge re-balance of alien tech tree upgrades and cost should be in question.

tarquinbb

does the marine have an ability where he can run 50% faster when he's out of combat? does the marine have an ability where he regenerates health and armour when he's out of combat?

(hey, it beats my analogy in the other thread!)

p.s. complementary <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4Kx9IqIZw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4Kx9IqIZw</a>

Avs

<!--quoteo(post=2017480:date=Nov 9 2012, 05:08 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 9 2012, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017480"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->does the marine have an ability where he can run 50% faster when he's out of combat? does the marine have an ability where he regenerates health and armour when he's out of combat?

(hey, it beats my analogy in the other thread!)

p.s. complementary <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4Kx9IqIZw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4Kx9IqIZw</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You aren't clear on what your point is, but marines have phasegates. Thats way better than celerity any day. Also, marines sprint while out of combat, so yes. Also, marines can resupply at an armory or get a health pack anywhere on the map. They can also repair their own armor. So yes to everything, though medpacks are in combat as well.

maD maX

Ignor him hes trolling.... the question isnt whether they have the ability to do something ie use a structure(sure rines can use anarmory like an alien can use a hive) its a question of the ability to be something Ie heal yourself or run faster. these are individual upgrades, kinda like a shotgun or lvl of armor/damage they belong to you as an individual, and they shouldnt disappear based on circumstances other then death.

tarquinbb

<!--quoteo(post=2017563:date=Nov 9 2012, 10:27 PM:name=maD maX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (maD maX @ Nov 9 2012, 10:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017563"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ignor him hes trolling.... the question isnt whether they have the ability to do something ie use a structure(sure rines can use anarmory like an alien can use a hive) its a question of the ability to be something Ie heal yourself or run faster. these are individual upgrades, kinda like a shotgun or lvl of armor/damage they belong to you as an individual, and they shouldnt disappear based on circumstances other then death.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

but ~50% faster out of combat run speed is balanced around the current game.

if you want universal 50% faster run speed, you're having a laugh.

Gliss

agreed, hidden mechanics or triggers are quite silly. this mechanic doesn't really make sense for anything except for Regeneration and Camouflage.

twiliteblue

<!--quoteo(post=2017783:date=Nov 10 2012, 12:50 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 10 2012, 12:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017783"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but ~50% faster out of combat run speed is balanced around the current game.

if you want universal 50% faster run speed, you're having a laugh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most classes only receive approx. 30% faster with celerity, with the Gorge (70%) and Fade (45%) being the exceptions.

I think celerity could be improved by providing a small speed boost (10-20%) "in combat" in addition. If that is too much trouble, simply tweaking the celerity start time, ramp up/down time upon exiting/entering combat would be great.

maD maX

I just dont understand why any of the "combat" mechanics are necessary, I know this is NS2 not NS1 but why would you lose the ability to heal when attacking a RT... As it stands Cara/adren/silance are the only upgrades that dont go poof the moment you need them (and if Adrenaline hadnt been nerfed so bad i might argue that this combo is the most valuable because it dosnt go Poof)

I would gladly give up a few points of regen/celerity if it ment that it wasnt situationily dependent

quintox

Celerity is awesome as it is! It's not a tool to enchance in combat kills, but you can ease in and out of battle zones realy quickly. If the commander wants you to go to the other side of the map, you can do that within seconds. Also if you learn how to use celerity you'll see that celerity is great for rushes. Move in at super speed, get a few bites in ( or even kills ) and disappear with leap before the marines had a chance to do anything. Once out of sight your celerity kicks in again and you can do the same thing all over again. Harrassing marines, denying them to expand, denying them to move forward.. celerity is awesome in the early game.

You will learn to value celerity once you see its massive potential ;)

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You aren't clear on what your point is, but marines have phasegates. Thats way better than celerity any day. Also, marines sprint while out of combat, so yes. Also, marines can resupply at an armory or get a health pack anywhere on the map. They can also repair their own armor. So yes to everything, though medpacks are in combat as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Phase gates and armories cost resources, energy and take time to build. They are hard to deffend and costly when lost. Alien perks like celerity and regeneration don't cost any resources, just the lifeforms do. Therefor you can't compare the two at all.

Calin

Pointless branches on the argument... BUT MARINES DON'T HAVE CELERITY.

Stop deriving from the point and accept that in combat nerfs should not exist... especially HIDDEN ones...

It's bad enough that aliens only have 6 total upgrades to choose from now, down from 9. And they only get barely half of the skills they used to get now, with no more FOCUS or WEBS making it increasingly difficult to deal with Jet-Packs.

Celerity is really the only way to get to the jetpackers as far as I am concerned, and If you're in combat now you can't even do it properly...


Don't you dare tell me adrenaline is the answer, the nerf on that is abysmal aswell, you can leap twice and be completely out of energy or get adrenaline and leap 4 times then be completely out of energy. Now unless you're a PERFECT aimbotter you will never kill a jetpacker in 4 leaps, and it is literally impossible to do it in 2.

Enough complaining, bottom line Aliens have seen way more nerfs than Marines and many more than necessary so please at least let us have celerity in combat... That's the only reason to get it anyways.

tarquinbb

<!--quoteo(post=2018000:date=Nov 10 2012, 06:15 AM:name=Calin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Calin @ Nov 10 2012, 06:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pointless branches on the argument... BUT MARINES DON'T HAVE CELERITY.

Stop deriving from the point and accept that in combat nerfs should not exist... especially HIDDEN ones...

It's bad enough that aliens only have 6 total upgrades to choose from now, down from 9. And they only get barely half of the skills they used to get now, with no more FOCUS or WEBS making it increasingly difficult to deal with Jet-Packs.

Celerity is really the only way to get to the jetpackers as far as I am concerned, and If you're in combat now you can't even do it properly...


Don't you dare tell me adrenaline is the answer, the nerf on that is abysmal aswell, you can leap twice and be completely out of energy or get adrenaline and leap 4 times then be completely out of energy. Now unless you're a PERFECT aimbotter you will never kill a jetpacker in 4 leaps, and it is literally impossible to do it in 2.

Enough complaining, bottom line Aliens have seen way more nerfs than Marines and many more than necessary so please at least let us have celerity in combat... That's the only reason to get it anyways.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

irrelevant jetpack whine.

they're not 'nerfs' unless you're referring to an earlier build where they would have been nerfed for the sake of balance. it's certainly not hidden either, the mechanics are pretty clear on the wiki and anyone who actually paid attention while using celerity rather than "YAY THX COMANDAR 4 SPED BEWST!! I NED!" - although if it doesn't say on the in-game tooltip then it should be clarified at some point.


anyway... this is a nailed-on knee jerk suggestion, because it was only yesterday that the OP was informed that celerity didn't work in combat after he basically called me dumb for using adrenaline on onos :p


some of the evolutions could do with improvements... specifically camo and regeneration, because people just rarely use them as they're generally considered to be inferior. i think celerity and adrenaline are okay for the moment.

Imbalanxd

If you consider this a hidden mechanic, then the fact that bullets do damage is a hidden mechanic. Even if, for some unknown reason, you can't TELL simply by playing the game, how fast you are going, there is also a clear visual effect which indicates when celerity is active. Hidden mechanic... ye maybe if you are paying absolutely no attention at all.

Apreche2

Don't underestimate the extreme power of being able to move around the map very quickly even though you can't move as quickly in combat. Marines have phase gates and can teleport around the map. Without celerity, you are screwed.

tarquinbb

<!--quoteo(post=2018300:date=Nov 10 2012, 01:59 PM:name=Apreche2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Apreche2 @ Nov 10 2012, 01:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't underestimate the extreme power of being able to move around the map very quickly even though you can't move as quickly in combat. Marines have phase gates and can teleport around the map. Without celerity, you are screwed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

true, but in the case of fade and onos you can also move faster with adrenaline due to blink/charge... so you're not 'screwed' per se.

Ernesti [CH]

I would agree that using hidden mechanics like no in-combat Celerity should be avoided, and since it's the case here (I honestly thought that Celerity would work in-combat), they should change the tooltip to "out of combat maximum speed" or something.

still, Celerity is not useless, and PLEASE stop comparing Marines and Aliens.... isn't it the real fun of NS2 that they are NOT the same? so let's keep it that way, and find other ways to balance them out (actually, they are already pretty balanced, it really only depends on the people in your team, or the enemy team, at least in public servers)

Gliss

why am I responding to this thread oh god: regardless of how effective it currently is, this mechanic doesn't make any sense and just feels limiting. it's really bad design to have limiting features like this that aren't as easy to control. that's why infestation slowing marines was removed or why carapace slowing aliens was removed. players in video games overall dislike feeling restricted or limited by these kinds of "features"

obviously it just returns you to the state you were if you hadn't upgrade anything, but it leaves a "cheated" feeling where you could just instead remove it entirely and it might make skulks or fades or lerks less trash. or it might not make a massive difference at all, it's just a really silly thing to have

ChaosXBeing

A lot of people seem to misunderstand Celerity, in thinking that Celerity gives you a speed boost. In reality, it functions much more like Adrenaline does now, where it raises your maximum speed.

Of course, I already said that once, but I felt it worth repeating.