I usually give up on games with persistent level systems fairly early. If I wanted to level I'd log into my WoW account. While it is true that games that go down the path of unlocks and so on can reel in players, there is a very real risk of alienating the sort of people that will actually play a game like this for years. If the changes fail to bring in those Casuals you end up with a game like Bloodline Champions or Star Wars Galaxy.
Besides, UWE probably made a decent profit from selling this game already, why fix something that isn't broken? <!--quoteo(post=2016958:date=Nov 10 2012, 12:20 AM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Nov 10 2012, 12:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016958"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the game requires unlocks, rankings, and a experience system to draw certain players, we don't want those players.
Go ahead, boot up a game that has these things, and go play multiplayer. Notice how these players treat each other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, people can get really crabby when their team (not them) loses the game and they don't get all their points. This is another thing I can just log into WoW for.
<!--quoteo(post=2015994:date=Nov 8 2012, 05:51 PM:name=WackOh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WackOh @ Nov 8 2012, 05:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2015994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could not agree anymore, OP is correct.
The developers created this game because they wanted it to eventually be like a COD AAAAA+++++++++++ title that Gamespot will dribble over. They didnt create this game because of a vision or a passion or anything, they want to eventually have EA (the bestest best of them all) as their sponsor for future titles.
We need kill streaks so that people that rack up the kills and pwn people can have perks which increase their score more and make them feel like they are the best in the server.
Unlocks will be teh best cause I want to eventually unlock a HMG with hollow-point ammunition as another unlock so that I can destroy an onos even faster. To counter it lets have the onos unlock super duper carapace upgrade which gives it titanium-platinum alloy armour on its front and side, but not its rear so that it is still balanced at least.
And yes lets also give away ribbons like they do in BF3, cause you know when the round ends I feel like I have really achieved a lot with my 50+ ribbons saying that I gave ammo and meds to my teammates, they appreciate me cause I have the ribbons to prove it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You just have to help your team and get enough resources and blam! Multiple unlockables each round!
You can unlock things an infinite number of times! zomg. You can grind unlocks for the rest of your life! You can just die now happy knowing you can spend hours unlocking things!
yes we do need a ranking system and soon.The diehard fan boys will wait till the game starts dieing and say ok fine give them there ranking system, but it will be to late then.I mean the game just seems so basic without it as if it really was a mod.
I like the idea of stat tracking if it's done just in a fun and informative way. Like time played per alien species or X number of kills per weapon or X number of structures built or destroyed. There's a near limitless type of stats that could be tracked/graphed just to have fun with.
And make it configurable so you can choose to turn them on or off per server. That way if you don't like it, don't use it. No reason to argue against an optional feature...
I'm a fan of "progression" in a game like this only if it does NOT affect gameplay. I wouldn't mind seeing special icons on the scoreboard, or perhaps "skins" to choose from, or just simply achievements of sorts. I think it is important for a game to make you feel like you're being productive in something somehow. Just playing a game and finishing...you don't feel you're accomplishing anything meaningful. Now, if there were non-gameplay-affecting progression, it's literally still not productive, but it makes you feel like something is being accomplished. That "draw" of accomplishment really helps maintain player interest. "If I'm going to waste my time playing games, I'd rather feel like I'm accomplishing something wasting my time playing games."
<!--quoteo(post=2017163:date=Nov 9 2012, 11:15 AM:name=include)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (include @ Nov 9 2012, 11:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017163"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it is important for a game to make you feel like you're being productive in something somehow. Just playing a game and finishing...you don't feel you're accomplishing anything meaningful. Now, if there were non-gameplay-affecting progression, it's literally still not productive, but it makes you feel like something is being accomplished. That "draw" of accomplishment really helps maintain player interest. "If I'm going to waste my time playing games, I'd rather feel like I'm accomplishing something wasting my time playing games."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=2016611:date=Nov 9 2012, 12:18 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 9 2012, 12:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016611"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We don't need to draw players who don't like the game for what it is. If NS2 isn't up their alley, it's not the game for them. <b>Neither the playerbase nor the developers would benefit from people who have no interest beyond the cycle of addiction modern FPSs use to trick their players into wasting their time and money.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That "draw" you're talking about is the endorphins released from satisfying your addictive behavior. The desire to get more shiney skins, make more numbers go up, to keep advancing and pushing the lever in your skinner box in hopes of constant reward. You're not looking for a game; you're looking for a fix.
The reward for playing NS2 is fun. The accomplishment for playing it repeatedly is getting better. The draw is doing something you love. If you want something to satisfy the addiction to constant reinforcement that modern games have psychologically impressed into you, I recommend Halo 4, Warfighter, or the new CoD game coming out; NS2 isn't that kind of game.
NS2 is like football or rock paper scissors. It's like chess or running a race. It's something people do in their free time to have fun; either with friends they know or to test themselves against people they don't. The reward for doing well is winning, and the losing team still gets to have a fun game and a learning experience. It's not designed to draw you in or keep you playing if you don't want to, but for those of us who like gaming, it's a great way to relax or even do the opposite. Little Susie, Apple Pie, Troops, Picket Fences, rabble rabble rabble, etc.
I'd have to agree that NS2 needs something similar to Tribes, and I am not talking about Unlocks.
The total score gained in a round should be added to the player's total score of all rounds played. The more games you played, the more knowledge you gain about the game, and the higher total score / rank you will have.
And that can be used for couple of things: 1) Ability to tell if you're on a team of experienced players 2) Server admins will be able to lock their servers for experienced players only
This will certainly improve balance in games and add fun. I do understand that for newbies to learn faster, they have to play the game with experienced players. But on the first day of NS2's release, most people on the server didn't know what they were doing, and we kinda all learned together.
So perhaps the solution would be to block all the new players from experienced servers, and have them play on rookies servers instead. All the rookies servers can be hosted by UWE, and experienced servers can be hosted by others. In fact, there can be 3 or even 4 different ranks. Rookie, Intermediate, Experienced and Pro.
It would take around 10-20 hours to become an Intermediate player, another 20-30 hours to become an Experienced players, and 100+ hours to become a Pro. Pro servers would only have the players who know the inside out of the game, games on those servers will have enourmous amount of communication, team work, and dedication. So if you're a very experienced NS2 player and you want to enjoy a quality game and avoid any frustrations that can be caused by new players, there will be a server like that to join.
From my experience in NS1, I know that there are many professional players who tended to avoid pub games because they were too messy. But with my solution, that shouldn't happen.
<!--quoteo(post=2016618:date=Nov 9 2012, 01:22 AM:name=hate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hate @ Nov 9 2012, 01:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016618"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->More money going to the devs means more money spent on fixing this game and making new ones, and that's a good thing for everyone imo. But your point is completely valid as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to sound harsh, but UWE have their money and steam prevents reselling... so screw 'em if they quit because no unlockables.
I feel that for myself and other more mature gamers....we just can't understand why people would care about this stuff. Its been ingrained into a younger generation of gamers. I mean its not like its a negative...but it blows me away that people would base their decision on what game they want to play based on these types of things. Its like in LoL where every 3rd person spends like 50bucks buying skins for their characters. I never paid to buy even one even though I played probably 300hrs. That ###### just doesn't have an impact on the game itself.
That said, I am very good at every game I play and what drives me to play is always to get better and try to be the best I can be. I think alot of people on the screw that stuff side of the argument feel and play for similar reasons. The fact of the matter is though there is a MUCH LARGER proportion of the population who just are not born with the ability to be good at video games, so different things drive them I guess.
An unlock for various alien (or future marine) models to be used in the ready room could be cool. I'd still like stuff to be fixed and optimized first though.
Visual unlocks you say? Yes, now I can wear my top hat and monocle into battle and argue logistics with the aliens until they die of boredom! ALL HAIL MONOCLE COMMANDER! ALL HAIL MONOCLE COMMANDER!
<!--quoteo(post=2016126:date=Nov 8 2012, 07:24 PM:name=Rationalgaze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rationalgaze @ Nov 8 2012, 07:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The joy is in the team work not in the personal performance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would not like to have a list with Kills/Deaths, That destroys the purpose of Teamplay.. Players will just destroy the gameplay when they wont risk their life because they can get a negative Kill/Death ratio..
It is the same with every fps shooter that have a Kill/Death ratio, There is always players who has to ruin the game because they wants a really good Kill/Death ratio and then they brag..
I would rather see a rank system where you get scores when you kill something and lose score when you die, And you get score when you win a game and lose score when your team lose.
One kill might be +5 score and one death might be -2.5 if you win a game then you get +50 score, If you lose a game then you get -25 score.. Many good actions in the game could give scores, Help the team and you get scores :) Everybody could start with 0 score and scores should only be a fun thing that you get for helping your team..
Your personal score should never be able to get under 0 score.
A list for accuracy on weapons could also be nice, But there should not be a Kill/Death ratio there either.. Only a list where you can see how much score you have gained with the weapon/class and how much you have lost.
I also feel that this could replace the current score screen stats, Give us some unique score instead of Kills/Deaths.. Players would understand that teamplay is the best way to really get any scores in this game ^^
I hate games that has to put a Kill/Death kill label on players. If I would be bad at killing players, Then I do not want that to reflect my overall skill level.
Would not the other good qualities you have also help build your skill level too and be reflected? Killing is part of the game and if someone is good at it, it should show that too. I agree with you that just showing kill stats is not the way to go however I will say we do need all inclusive stats that show everything. What your saying could totally be flipped around like this: ------------------------ I hate games that has to put a assist/heal label on players. If I would be bad at healing players, Then I do not want that to reflect my overall skill level ------------------------ Both sides of the table have a valid argument and I think the best answer like I mentioned would be an all inclusive method.
If servers could upload stats to a global database as well as a private database (say if a clan had a website and server) this would be awesome!
Games like UT2004 had this ability and it was well loved by the community. The stats even supported team games like CTF and ONS that reflected assists, recoveries, building nodes and cores in the stats, not just kills. There are tons of things that can done with a stats database.
<!--quoteo(post=2016139:date=Nov 8 2012, 07:36 PM:name=hate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hate @ Nov 8 2012, 07:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or at least steam achievements... I mean really how hard would it be to make a little box pop up for 10, 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000 skulk kills? It doesn't change game play AT ALL. But it's a cool little feature that lots of people like.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much the only thing I'd like to see is fun achievements like that. In game stuff? No.
Master Engineer: Weld 1,000,000 points of damage :D
<!--quoteo(post=2015994:date=Nov 8 2012, 03:51 PM:name=WackOh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WackOh @ Nov 8 2012, 03:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2015994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could not agree anymore, OP is correct.
The developers created this game because they wanted it to eventually be like a COD AAAAA+++++++++++ title that Gamespot will dribble over. They didnt create this game because of a vision or a passion or anything, they want to eventually have EA (the bestest best of them all) as their sponsor for future titles.
We need kill streaks so that people that rack up the kills and pwn people can have perks which increase their score more and make them feel like they are the best in the server.
Unlocks will be teh best cause I want to eventually unlock a HMG with hollow-point ammunition as another unlock so that I can destroy an onos even faster. To counter it lets have the onos unlock super duper carapace upgrade which gives it titanium-platinum alloy armour on its front and side, but not its rear so that it is still balanced at least.
And yes lets also give away ribbons like they do in BF3, cause you know when the round ends I feel like I have really achieved a lot with my 50+ ribbons saying that I gave ammo and meds to my teammates, they appreciate me cause I have the ribbons to prove it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For like half a second, I thought you were serious then I read "super duper carapace" and just lol'd my way to victory.
Comments
Go ahead, boot up a game that has these things, and go play multiplayer. Notice how these players treat each other.
Besides, UWE probably made a decent profit from selling this game already, why fix something that isn't broken?
<!--quoteo(post=2016958:date=Nov 10 2012, 12:20 AM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Nov 10 2012, 12:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016958"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the game requires unlocks, rankings, and a experience system to draw certain players, we don't want those players.
Go ahead, boot up a game that has these things, and go play multiplayer. Notice how these players treat each other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, people can get really crabby when their team (not them) loses the game and they don't get all their points. This is another thing I can just log into WoW for.
The developers created this game because they wanted it to eventually be like a COD AAAAA+++++++++++ title that Gamespot will dribble over. They didnt create this game because of a vision or a passion or anything, they want to eventually have EA (the bestest best of them all) as their sponsor for future titles.
We need kill streaks so that people that rack up the kills and pwn people can have perks which increase their score more and make them feel like they are the best in the server.
Unlocks will be teh best cause I want to eventually unlock a HMG with hollow-point ammunition as another unlock so that I can destroy an onos even faster. To counter it lets have the onos unlock super duper carapace upgrade which gives it titanium-platinum alloy armour on its front and side, but not its rear so that it is still balanced at least.
And yes lets also give away ribbons like they do in BF3, cause you know when the round ends I feel like I have really achieved a lot with my 50+ ribbons saying that I gave ammo and meds to my teammates, they appreciate me cause I have the ribbons to prove it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so.. so... lazy... :/
:>
You just have to help your team and get enough resources and blam! Multiple unlockables each round!
You can unlock things an infinite number of times! zomg. You can grind unlocks for the rest of your life! You can just die now happy knowing you can spend hours unlocking things!
And make it configurable so you can choose to turn them on or off per server. That way if you don't like it, don't use it. No reason to argue against an optional feature...
<!--quoteo(post=2016611:date=Nov 9 2012, 12:18 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 9 2012, 12:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016611"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We don't need to draw players who don't like the game for what it is. If NS2 isn't up their alley, it's not the game for them. <b>Neither the playerbase nor the developers would benefit from people who have no interest beyond the cycle of addiction modern FPSs use to trick their players into wasting their time and money.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That "draw" you're talking about is the endorphins released from satisfying your addictive behavior. The desire to get more shiney skins, make more numbers go up, to keep advancing and pushing the lever in your skinner box in hopes of constant reward. You're not looking for a game; you're looking for a fix.
The reward for playing NS2 is fun. The accomplishment for playing it repeatedly is getting better. The draw is doing something you love. If you want something to satisfy the addiction to constant reinforcement that modern games have psychologically impressed into you, I recommend Halo 4, Warfighter, or the new CoD game coming out; NS2 isn't that kind of game.
NS2 is like football or rock paper scissors. It's like chess or running a race. It's something people do in their free time to have fun; either with friends they know or to test themselves against people they don't. The reward for doing well is winning, and the losing team still gets to have a fun game and a learning experience. It's not designed to draw you in or keep you playing if you don't want to, but for those of us who like gaming, it's a great way to relax or even do the opposite. Little Susie, Apple Pie, Troops, Picket Fences, rabble rabble rabble, etc.
The total score gained in a round should be added to the player's total score of all rounds played. The more games you played, the more knowledge you gain about the game, and the higher total score / rank you will have.
And that can be used for couple of things:
1) Ability to tell if you're on a team of experienced players
2) Server admins will be able to lock their servers for experienced players only
This will certainly improve balance in games and add fun. I do understand that for newbies to learn faster, they have to play the game with experienced players. But on the first day of NS2's release, most people on the server didn't know what they were doing, and we kinda all learned together.
So perhaps the solution would be to block all the new players from experienced servers, and have them play on rookies servers instead. All the rookies servers can be hosted by UWE, and experienced servers can be hosted by others. In fact, there can be 3 or even 4 different ranks. Rookie, Intermediate, Experienced and Pro.
It would take around 10-20 hours to become an Intermediate player, another 20-30 hours to become an Experienced players, and 100+ hours to become a Pro. Pro servers would only have the players who know the inside out of the game, games on those servers will have enourmous amount of communication, team work, and dedication. So if you're a very experienced NS2 player and you want to enjoy a quality game and avoid any frustrations that can be caused by new players, there will be a server like that to join.
From my experience in NS1, I know that there are many professional players who tended to avoid pub games because they were too messy. But with my solution, that shouldn't happen.
Not to sound harsh, but UWE have their money and steam prevents reselling... so screw 'em if they quit because no unlockables.
That said, I am very good at every game I play and what drives me to play is always to get better and try to be the best I can be. I think alot of people on the screw that stuff side of the argument feel and play for similar reasons. The fact of the matter is though there is a MUCH LARGER proportion of the population who just are not born with the ability to be good at video games, so different things drive them I guess.
Yep. Commander we need a Phase Gate here!
+1
Some steam achievements would be nice.
And as long as unlocks are only visual there shouldnt be any balance problem.
Players will just destroy the gameplay when they wont risk their life because they can get a negative Kill/Death ratio..
It is the same with every fps shooter that have a Kill/Death ratio,
There is always players who has to ruin the game because they wants a really good Kill/Death ratio and then they brag..
I would rather see a rank system where you get scores when you kill something and lose score when you die,
And you get score when you win a game and lose score when your team lose.
One kill might be +5 score and one death might be -2.5
if you win a game then you get +50 score, If you lose a game then you get -25 score..
Many good actions in the game could give scores, Help the team and you get scores :)
Everybody could start with 0 score and scores should only be a fun thing that you get for helping your team..
Your personal score should never be able to get under 0 score.
A list for accuracy on weapons could also be nice, But there should not be a Kill/Death ratio there either..
Only a list where you can see how much score you have gained with the weapon/class and how much you have lost.
I also feel that this could replace the current score screen stats, Give us some unique score instead of Kills/Deaths..
Players would understand that teamplay is the best way to really get any scores in this game ^^
I hate games that has to put a Kill/Death kill label on players.
If I would be bad at killing players, Then I do not want that to reflect my overall skill level.
Would not the other good qualities you have also help build your skill level too and be reflected? Killing is part of the game and if someone is good at it, it should show that too. I agree with you that just showing kill stats is not the way to go however I will say we do need all inclusive stats that show everything. What your saying could totally be flipped around like this:
------------------------
I hate games that has to put a assist/heal label on players.
If I would be bad at healing players, Then I do not want that to reflect my overall skill level
------------------------
Both sides of the table have a valid argument and I think the best answer like I mentioned would be an all inclusive method.
If servers could upload stats to a global database as well as a private database (say if a clan had a website and server) this would be awesome!
Games like UT2004 had this ability and it was well loved by the community. The stats even supported team games like CTF and ONS that reflected assists, recoveries, building nodes and cores in the stats, not just kills. There are tons of things that can done with a stats database.
Pretty much the only thing I'd like to see is fun achievements like that. In game stuff? No.
Master Engineer: Weld 1,000,000 points of damage :D
The developers created this game because they wanted it to eventually be like a COD AAAAA+++++++++++ title that Gamespot will dribble over. They didnt create this game because of a vision or a passion or anything, they want to eventually have EA (the bestest best of them all) as their sponsor for future titles.
We need kill streaks so that people that rack up the kills and pwn people can have perks which increase their score more and make them feel like they are the best in the server.
Unlocks will be teh best cause I want to eventually unlock a HMG with hollow-point ammunition as another unlock so that I can destroy an onos even faster. To counter it lets have the onos unlock super duper carapace upgrade which gives it titanium-platinum alloy armour on its front and side, but not its rear so that it is still balanced at least.
And yes lets also give away ribbons like they do in BF3, cause you know when the round ends I feel like I have really achieved a lot with my 50+ ribbons saying that I gave ammo and meds to my teammates, they appreciate me cause I have the ribbons to prove it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For like half a second, I thought you were serious then I read "super duper carapace" and just lol'd my way to victory.