Ok. Something is wrong with Skulks.

IdlerayIdleray Join Date: 2012-10-04 Member: 161464Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 154 Advanced user
Just kidding. Skulks are perfect.

No sometimes I just feel Skulks are perfect for me for the entire game (especially when we go Shade first).

They pack everything I need to suit my playstyle in one package: hard to hit, low res investment(ok, more like NO res investment), is the most effective way to take down remote undefended RTs on the map.

I sometimes go exclusively on anti-res duty, avoiding marines that come by and finding the next undefended RT and so on.

Here's the rub: Even though I finish the game and feel like I've made a good contribution to the team, I still end up with a whole stack of pres. Sometimes the max (100). I literally can't find a way to spend it.

Do I gorge? Well Gorge is my fav class to play and I always gorge when I can contribute. However the thing here is that Gorges are actually very cheap and so not the kind of res dump I'm looking for?

Lerk? Nope. Damage against RTs too small.

Fade? Damage against RTs less than skulks, and I also feel bad when I insta-fail and lose 50 pres.

Onos? Most of the time I prefer to be gorge and support the Onos. Sure I go Onos sometimes, but I have this bad habit of charging into Exos with little support, and I always feel that I should gorge instead.

So basically, I want to a res sink. Something that enhances my Skulk play but isn't a life form.

Can we add upgrade stacking like in _co and make it cost res?

Comments

  • arnyboy87arnyboy87 Join Date: 2012-08-13 Member: 155551Members Posts: 158
    I know where your coming from m8 same thing happens to me some time

    Just remember every res you get over 100 get split between the team so don't feel too bad and even a bad onos last min helps in breaking the turtle

    Can I make 1 sugguestion however don't be afriad to spend your res,, 100 res unspent is alot worse than 100 res lost ( and getting better with other lifeforms is your only risk ;)
    !Win or Die Trying!
  • InertiamanInertiaman Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165028Members Posts: 17
    Only takes a few minutes to gorge, drop your hydra and blocks then morph back. Everyone should do this once.
  • maD maXmaD maX Join Date: 2010-01-28 Member: 70347Members Posts: 349 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 6 2012, 12:27 PM) »
    I sometimes go exclusively on anti-res duty, avoiding marines that come by and finding the next undefended RT and so on.

    Here's the rub: Even though I finish the game and feel like I've made a good contribution to the team, I still end up with a whole stack of pres. Sometimes the max (100). I literally can't find a way to spend it.


    Onos? Most of the time I prefer to be gorge and support the Onos. Sure I go Onos sometimes, but I have this bad habit of charging into Exos with little support, and I always feel that I should gorge instead.

  • maD maXmaD maX Join Date: 2010-01-28 Member: 70347Members Posts: 349 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 6 2012, 12:27 PM) »
    I sometimes go exclusively on anti-res duty, avoiding marines that come by and finding the next undefended RT and so on.

    Here's the rub: Even though I finish the game and feel like I've made a good contribution to the team, I still end up with a whole stack of pres. Sometimes the max (100). I literally can't find a way to spend it.


    Onos? Most of the time I prefer to be gorge and support the Onos. Sure I go Onos sometimes, but I have this bad habit of charging into Exos with little support, and I always feel that I should gorge instead.



    This is actually a pet peeve of mine, I would rather see every player die as an onos and end the game with <10 res then perma gorge or skulk...

    My suggestion, go onos when you can, if you die so what? If you we're not going to spend that res then it doesn't make a difference. Oh and if you use your skulk tactics as an onos the rines won't have any RTs outside their base.... Just remember to run from exos, and groups of 4 or more unless you have help....

    As far as res overflow, I have tried it, but have not seen it make difference. The only thing I have seen that makes a difference is when your team is dead.
  • SoulfighterSoulfighter Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167432Members Posts: 80
    edited November 2012
    QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 6 2012, 04:27 AM) »
    No sometimes I just feel Skulks are perfect for me for the entire game (especially when we go Shade first).


    that's... like... the worst upgrade you could get with a first hive :-/ it forces skulks to be slow and statics and won't efficiently used in the numerous skirmish early game has unless everyone on your team coordinate to move slowly and stay invisible until the very last moment.

    Carapace is the way to go.

    QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 6 2012, 04:27 AM) »
    Sure I go Onos sometimes, but I have this bad habit of charging into Exos with little support, and I always feel that I should gorge instead.


    tip : onos rape exos 1vs1 and if you have stomp you'll make any marine around an exo be useless, you're much much more efficient as an onos then as a gorge.

    don't be afraid to test all the lifeforms and play a lot with them, you'll find they're all pretty much enoyable to play
    image
  • CJoker3221CJoker3221 Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165521Members Posts: 45
    QUOTE (Inertiaman @ Nov 6 2012, 05:06 AM) »
    Only takes a few minutes to gorge, drop your hydra and blocks then morph back. Everyone should do this once.

    Your Hydras will die if you don't stay Gorge
  • IdlerayIdleray Join Date: 2012-10-04 Member: 161464Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 154 Advanced user
    QUOTE (Soulfighter @ Nov 6 2012, 07:29 AM) »
    that's... like... the worst upgrade you could get with a first hive :-/ it forces skulks to be slow and statics and won't efficiently used in the numerous skirmish early game has unless everyone on your team coordinate to move slowly and stay invisible until the very last moment.

    Carapace is the way to go.



    tip : onos rape exos 1vs1 and if you have stomp you'll make any marine around an exo be useless, you're much much more efficient as an onos then as a gorge.

    don't be afraid to test all the lifeforms and play a lot with them, you'll find they're all pretty much enoyable to play


    Yah I know how Onos works.

    And no going Shade first does not imply cloak usage. There may be a misunderstanding here. I know the game and have played since NS1. When I say Shade first, the implication is Silence.

    Silence is godly on skulks. The difference it makes is intangible yet sublime. Though it is risky, I think one day people may consider the effect of silence to be superior to cara.

    I normally suck in combat as a Skulk, but have found lately that with Silence i become some sort of beast. It just naturally suits my playstyle of always trying to flank.

    And I've also tried all the lifeforms. Extensively. I know I suck as Fade. there's no changing that. Even in NS1 I primarily just blinked around with Adren because the minute i go toe-to-toe with rines i get wtfpwned.

    Lerk is fun to play and I'm effective at it, but they are not effective at res demolishing, which is what I like to do, because it wins games.
  • tarquinbbtarquinbb Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members Posts: 1,123
    edited November 2012
    if you have a lot of pres you can always press tab and see what your team is lacking, having 1-2 lerk or fade is always better than having a 3rd or 4th onos.

    i find skulk to be a lot of fun purely because it's a challenge and will always be a challenge - especially in later game. i've played pub counterstrike for years and about 50% of my total kills are deagle, and about 10% of total kills are knife (in csgo i've started using shotguns, because the deagle seems to have lost a bit of punch against the cookie cutter weapons), but still it's because i enjoy playing the 'underdog'.

    if you really want to play as skulk for the entire game, then as someone else said - once you get 100 pres, it starts to get shared out amongst your teammates. i mean.... sometimes i'm playing lerk and get 100 pres, it's just so hard for marines to kill you if you play it right. the same can be said for marines but for the fact that they have mines as a 'pres sink'.


    edit: i have to add, anyone who says silence is obsolete is just failing at stealth play and probably lacking game sense. carapace is great, and quite a lot better for newbies, but you can't sneak up on anyone without silence - you can be heard from half way across the map and so slow while 'sneaking' with shift that any marine with a bit of sense will check his six often enough to get a free kill.

    shade hive also has the benefit of being able to stealth your main hive which makes it incredibly difficult for marines to harrass in the early game. a single gorge can defend a shade hive from 2-3 marines, in crag/shift those marines will chase you down and kill you EASILY.
  • SoulfighterSoulfighter Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167432Members Posts: 80
    QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 6 2012, 07:35 AM) »
    Silence is godly on skulks. The difference it makes is intangible yet sublime. Though it is risky, I think one day people may consider the effect of silence to be superior to cara.


    general map awerness of players + commander and good communication usually easly allow you to know where the marines are and therefore walk before entering the "threat area" if you really want to sneak on them

    but in pubs pratically anything is good anyway :)
    image
  • tarquinbbtarquinbb Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members Posts: 1,123
    edited November 2012
    QUOTE (Soulfighter @ Nov 6 2012, 02:49 PM) »
    general map awerness of players + commander and good communication usually easly allow you to know where the marines are and therefore walk before entering the "threat area" if you really want to sneak on them

    but in pubs pratically anything is good anyway :)


    that's true, but sneaking reduces your speed by ~50% (?), and the regular footsteps can be heard from about 2 rooms away, the radius is HUGE... whenever i hear footsteps as a marine i just aim at the corridor/vent and 90% of the time the fail-skulk comes creeping right out for a free kill. it makes me feel sad.

    it's totally not viable to be sneaking anywhere where there's a chance of alerting any marine within your footstep radius. sneaking is definitely required if you don't want to give away your position, but silence is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more effective because against decent players you have a very limited window to apply your stealth.

    a good example of this is say you have an onos or fade (or anything, doesn't matter) buddy fighting 3-4 marines in a room... you come in with silence = they don't have a clue. you come in with sneak = your buddies could be dead and you're too late. you come in with the coconut clappers = one of the marines turns around and kills you in 0.1 second.
  • matsomatso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,554 mod
    QUOTE (CJoker3221 @ Nov 6 2012, 03:30 PM) »
    Your Hydras will die if you don't stay Gorge


    True back in the 21x patches; but when hydras started to cost pres to drop, that limit was removed. So you can go gorge, drop 3 hydras and then skulk again. Works great if another gorge is there already - go gorge, complement his defenses, then skulk again.
    Member of CDT, Senior Spark Engine Hacker
  • PureHostilityPureHostility Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167579Members Posts: 48
    The thing about silence being probably the most useful upgrade for skulk, less or more useful than celerity.

    Running around on fullspeed and bouncing of the walls all the time without making a slightest noise > Having to survive 3 more hits or moving slightly faster, especially in early game. Where most of encounters marines will be ready for are when they hear enemies coming at them. Ambushing and hit and run is way easier with it.


    End game skulk build the most beloved by me is:
    -Celerity
    -Silence
    -Regeneration

    I find Carapace to be totally obsolete. If you die to a rine with w3a3 then you would probably die to him with carapace too and regeneration actually makes you survive more. Jump out of cover, bite, hide, jump out, bite, hide...and so on. With every hiding moment you regenerate health to max, if you know how to move as a skulk = You can solo any a3w3 without any problem, way easier than with cara.

    Also this build I mainly use to take out their key buildings away from the frontlines, It's my personal favorite RT buster.

    But it just may be only for me... I prefer to play as hit&run style, instead of upyourfaceandletmediehorribly.
  • JemmeJemme Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21698Members Posts: 44
    Just left a server after getting shottie rushed a couple of times. Nothing can prevent an early push by rines when they have shotguns.
  • tarquinbbtarquinbb Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members Posts: 1,123
    edited November 2012
    QUOTE (PureHostility @ Nov 6 2012, 03:01 PM) »
    The thing about silence being probably the most useful upgrade for skulk, less or more useful than celerity.

    Running around on fullspeed and bouncing of the walls all the time without making a slightest noise > Having to survive 3 more hits or moving slightly faster, especially in early game. Where most of encounters marines will be ready for are when they hear enemies coming at them. Ambushing and hit and run is way easier with it.


    End game skulk build the most beloved by me is:
    -Celerity
    -Silence
    -Regeneration

    I find Carapace to be totally obsolete. If you die to a rine with w3a3 then you would probably die to him with carapace too and regeneration actually makes you survive more. Jump out of cover, bite, hide, jump out, bite, hide...and so on. With every hiding moment you regenerate health to max, if you know how to move as a skulk = You can solo any a3w3 without any problem, way easier than with cara.

    Also this build I mainly use to take out their key buildings away from the frontlines, It's my personal favorite RT buster.

    But it just may be only for me... I prefer to play as hit&run style, instead of upyourfaceandletmediehorribly.


    yeah... the big dilemma is regen or carapace - but honestly i'd rather flee sooner and then hide in a vent to heal up, instead of survive a fraction of a second longer and have to run all the way back to a hive/gorge to heal up... winning a 1v1 with carapace and then having to run all the way back to hive to avoid getting 1-shotted is sucky.

    i'd only take carapace for onos and fade [and obviously gorge cos of self heal], because they're expensive enough that a) you dont wanna get instakilled and b) you don't mind running back to a hive every time you need a heal (plus a gorge will prioritise you over skulks and lerk etc)
  • BarisartBarisart Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 164947Members Posts: 12
    I play skulk pretty much the whole game to :)

    But however later in the game when i can go onos, i ask my teammates to onos up to. So we do a big onos push.
    -75 res. TIME FOR SKULKING AGAIN...... 75 res later. ONOS PUSH

    and repeat.
  • tarquinbbtarquinbb Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members Posts: 1,123
    edited November 2012
    QUOTE (Jemme @ Nov 6 2012, 03:04 PM) »
    Just left a server after getting shottie rushed a couple of times. Nothing can prevent an early push by rines when they have shotguns.


    attack their base, force a distress beacon, retreat.

    also, lerk shooting from range is almost invincible to shotgun marines. while they're distracted by 1-2 skulks, you fire spikes from a dark corner on the ceiling/wall and by the time they find you - you've already killed 2 of them. you can tell whether they've seen you - when they look in your direction then start flying around/dodging like crazy, don't even wait for them to start firing. then they'll be focused on skulks again and you can resume your PITA sniping.
  • PureHostilityPureHostility Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167579Members Posts: 48
    QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 6 2012, 06:13 PM) »
    attack their base, force a distress beacon, retreat.

    also, lerk shooting from range is almost invincible to shotgun marines. while they're distracted by 1-2 skulks, you fire spikes from a dark corner on the ceiling/wall and by the time they find you - you've already killed 2 of them.



    But beware shotgun snipers !
    They can make you laugh, which can put your aim off !!!

    They like to shot you across whole hallways or in that open area on summit, when both of you are on opposite sides of the "rooms"... they try to snipe you with shotguns instead of switching to pistols...
  • DanielDDanielD Join Date: 2010-11-16 Member: 74960Members Posts: 128
    While this is a game you payed money for and you're entitled to play it how you want, do know that you would help your team more by going onos at 75 res. Also, if you like attacking RTs, feel free to go fade and do it. Someone posted that it takes 38 seconds instead of 28 seconds to kill an rt, which is a significant increase EXCEPT now they can't just send one marine to stop you, they have to send at least two.

    And don't feel bad about dying fast as fade, its better to try to use a higher life form and die than to just let your res pile up.
  • tarquinbbtarquinbb Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members Posts: 1,123
    edited November 2012
    QUOTE (DanielD @ Nov 6 2012, 07:58 PM) »
    While this is a game you payed money for and you're entitled to play it how you want, do know that you would help your team more by going onos at 75 res. Also, if you like attacking RTs, feel free to go fade and do it. Someone posted that it takes 38 seconds instead of 28 seconds to kill an rt, which is a significant increase EXCEPT now they can't just send one marine to stop you, they have to send at least two.

    And don't feel bad about dying fast as fade, its better to try to use a higher life form and die than to just let your res pile up.



    that's almost like saying it's better to take your money out of the bank and burn it, because it's just piling up in the bank.

    no... if you take the money out - you should use it wisely :/

    even if you have 90% of the resources on the map, dying willy nilly with onos/fade is the reason marines are able to 1-base defend for so long.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,688 Advanced user
    QUOTE (DanielD @ Nov 6 2012, 12:58 PM) »
    While this is a game you payed money for and you're entitled to play it how you want, do know that you would help your team more by going onos at 75 res. Also, if you like attacking RTs, feel free to go fade and do it. Someone posted that it takes 38 seconds instead of 28 seconds to kill an rt, which is a significant increase EXCEPT now they can't just send one marine to stop you, they have to send at least two.

    And don't feel bad about dying fast as fade, its better to try to use a higher life form and die than to just let your res pile up.

    Fades are also faster. You can run away faster. You can run to another rt faster. You can try to entice a game of tag/chase where you keep going from one rt to another and then running away. Basically divert a marine or two to trying to keep you out of their base/rt's.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members Posts: 4,943 Advanced user
    If you never play fade, it's normal to suck at it. Learn now while most players are still discovering the game.

    Try concentrating on survival rather than on kills.
    -signed-
  • ellnicellnic Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72559Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 915 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Soulfighter @ Nov 6 2012, 02:29 PM) »
    tip : onos rape exos 1vs1 and if you have stomp you'll make any marine around an exo be useless, you're much much more efficient as an onos then as a gorge.

    don't be afraid to test all the lifeforms and play a lot with them, you'll find they're all pretty much enoyable to play


    Strongly dissagree in my opinion. As an exo I find killing onos 1v1 a lot easier and as onos when i am 1v1 with an exo (both full HP) I find the the exo will kill me more often then not
  • SpaceJewSpaceJew Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157584Members Posts: 553
    QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 6 2012, 02:09 PM) »
    that's almost like saying it's better to take your money out of the bank and burn it, because it's just piling up in the bank.

    no... if you take the money out - you should use it wisely :/

    even if you have 90% of the resources on the map, dying willy nilly with onos/fade is the reason marines are able to 1-base defend for so long.


    It is more logical if there's an upward ceiling to the amount of money you can keep in your bank account, and you have a constant stream of money flowing into it. Especially considering that anything past that cap is wasted for you. Sure, it overflows and splits up between the rest of the team but as others have said going fade or Onos will make the res ticks inconsequential. One more Onos could easily be the difference between winning the game now or losing the game later. What drives me crazy is when half the team is assaulting the marines final base and I still see two or three skulks eating res nodes.

    The res nodes don't matter if the marines are dead! ^_^
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  • PureHostilityPureHostility Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167579Members Posts: 48
    QUOTE (DanielD @ Nov 6 2012, 09:58 PM) »
    While this is a game you payed money for and you're entitled to play it how you want, do know that you would help your team more by going onos at 75 res. Also, if you like attacking RTs, feel free to go fade and do it. Someone posted that it takes 38 seconds instead of 28 seconds to kill an rt, which is a significant increase EXCEPT now they can't just send one marine to stop you, they have to send at least two.

    And don't feel bad about dying fast as fade, its better to try to use a higher life form and die than to just let your res pile up.





    I totally disagree with what you said.

    First of all.

    Most people want to rush all team as an onos...:

    1) Maybe you find it fun, I do not!
    2) It's not the most effective thing to win with... it's the easiest and "brainless" way, but not the most effective.
    3) Why would I go onos if I already have like 4 onoses running around in this 8vs8?
    4) What If I do not have a fraking 75 res neither do 50?

    Second, fade for taking down RTs...
    I find skulks to be much much much much more efficient to do this.

    If you die as a skulk against a sole rine who is going to check on his RT... sorry, you are awful at dodging and avoiding death, when playing endgame against a3w3 rines everywhere.
    First of, use sound to your advantage.

    I usually run away when I hear marines coming, even if extractor haven gone down.

    By the time that rine enters the room and goes to the extractor, I'm already biting down another one somewhere else on the map, due to my movement being less energy expensive than fade's (uses less energy to move fast).
    As it was also stated, Skulk destroys RTs way faster than fades. I did some calculations yesterday, and most of the differences were around 10 to 15 seconds on varied buildings (it takes just 30 seconds to destroy armslab or infantry portal as a skulk, and around 40 as a fade, that's huge difference).


    I won't like.
    When I have 75 pres, I usually prefer to check my teams composition, before evolving into onos ... Most of the time I go for lerk, as 50% of my team is already going onos from dropped eggs or their own pres.

    If none takes Ono, I will, it's better to have one... but I prefer not to, it's not my playstyle. I want to be swift hitting many places at once, forcing marines to scatter and try to defend as many places at once (more defended spots, but with much smaller firepower).


  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,689 Advanced user
    edited November 2012
    QUOTE (ellnic @ Nov 6 2012, 04:21 PM) »
    Strongly dissagree in my opinion. As an exo I find killing onos 1v1 a lot easier and as onos when i am 1v1 with an exo (both full HP) I find the the exo will kill me more often then not


    This. Cara Onos vs fully upgraded double minigun Exo, starting at melee range, the exo will win. As an Onos I'm absolutely terrified of Exos. They usually go down to attrition tactics, not brute force.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 1,194
    edited November 2012
    Battlegorge.

    BATTLEGORGE!

    The same advice I always give: Battlegorge. Especially once you have Carapace, you can try spearheading a Skulk attack as a Gorge - You take a few shots, shrug it off, watch the Skulks soar past into Marines reloading their weapons. Oh, you'll die alot - but that's exactly how you're spending your res.

    When the game starts and comm goes for early Cara, a team of 2 Skulks and 1 Gorge is just devastating and hard as hell to kill for Marines with weapon lvl0.

    EDIT: Lol, forgot the most essential part: How to play Battlegorge: Simply healspray the marine - you're not only damaging the Marine, you're also healing yourself AND the Skulks attacking the Marine.
    image
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