Suggestion for skulk ability
32516692
Join Date: 2009-07-11 Member: 68115Members
Join Date: 2009-07-11 Member: 68115Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Grabbing (critizism needed)</div><i>Before you judge this, please hear out my reasoning and read the scenarios, comment if you think what I'm thinking is great or jibberish</i>
<b>Description:</b>
Grab, using your jaw and legs to latch on and immobilize the target marine in melee combat, forcing him to the ground with his secondary (pistol) at the cost of your ability to move and attack yourself.
<b>Pros:</b>
You can take out a single marine as a pack of skulks easily, no matter how skilled he is
It allows a great deal of teamwork to be implemented
<b>Cons:</b>
It can't be used in 1v1, since the marine still is capable of attacking (pistol) and you aren't
You can't move or attack, which makes you a very easy target to surrounding marines
You create a hotspot where aliens will attack the downed marine, making them easy targets as well
<b>Explanation:</b>
When the skulk attacks, it literally shoves it's face into the target, which makes it very hard to see and even harder to navigate. On top of that, when you're in melee combat range, you're forced to run around your prey to avoid being shot, which makes it even harder to see and attack. You can't move in a straight line, which means you can't run away and you can't run towards, you can't stand still either, so all you're left to do is running around in panic, hoping for a leg to pop up at your screen.
The reason I think this ability would be needed is because, to me, it seems like it should be easy to take out a skilled marine as 3 skulks. Every time I attack in a pack of skulks, and the entire pack gets killed by 2 marines with good aims, I'm left with a feeling that, if I were an actual skulk, I'd just latch on to the arm of one of them and hold them down so the others could get it over with. Instead, I'm manhandled by a rifle along with the other skulks without doing any damage because it's to hard to navigate once you're in the fight, and your maneuvering is useless against a skilled shooter.
Think back to the fights in the schoolyard where a big bully would get knocked over by a group of small kids latching on to his arms and legs, trying to get him down.
<i>Following are a few scenarios. When the skulks attack, we're presuming they get first hit, while it's the opposite with the marines.</i>
<b>Scenario 1:</b> 1 rifle marine, 2 skulks
Skulks attack: One of them holds him down while the other takes him out. The marine might get a few pistol shots off, wounding one of the skulks but not killing it.
Marine attacks: Marine shoots one of the skulks, the other one grabs the marine, the marine finishes the skulk with his pistol.
<b>Scenario 2:</b> 2 rifle marines, 1 shotgun marine, 3 skulks
Skulks attack: One of them holds down the shotgun guy, leaving the others to finish him. The 2 other marines shoots and kills at least 2 skulks, leaving the surviving to flee, if it can.
Marines attack: The rifle marines shoot one skulk, the shotgun marine takes one in close combat, the last skulk is left to flee, if it can.
<b>Scenario 3:</b> 2 rifle marines, 5 skulks
Skulks attack: Two skulks hold down each marine, the remaining skulks finish them off, a single skulk is perhaps lost to the pistol fire, probably not though.
Marines attack: The marines take out a single skulk, one skulk then goes to grab one of the marines, the other skulks attack the grabbed marine, the other marine shoots and kills one of the skulks in the group, the first marine is killed, one skulk grabs the marine and the last two finish him.
<b>Scenario 4:</b> 3 rifle marines, 5 skulks
Skulks attack: 3 skulks grabs the 3 marines, 2 skulks help finish 2 of the marines, the last marine kills the skulk with the pistol and is in turn killed by the other skulks. Other skulks most likely hurt by pistol fire, but not severely.
Marines attack: 2 marines kill one skulk, 1 marine severely damages another. (a) 3 skulks hold down a marine each, the last skulk helps finish one of the marines, the lasting two marines kill a skulk each with pistol fire and kill the remaining 2 skulks, one of them being easy since it was hurt. (b) One skulk holds down one of the marines while the remaining 3 finish him fast. The 2 marines shoot and kill one of the skulks. 2 skulks grab the marines while the last skulk finish one of them. Meanwhile, the last marine kills the skulk holding him with pistol fire, gets on his legs, shoots the damaged skulk while the last skulk manages to kill the last marine.
I've tried my best to polarize the outcome to be as favorable as can be to each side depending on who gets first strike. From my point of view, it seems balanced, since it's useless against large groups of marines and can't be abused with 5 skulks grabbing 5 marines and a 6th to walk around and finishing them one by one, since the marines all have access to their secondary (pistol).
I'd greatly appreciate some critizism since I know there will be people who think this will be unbalanced and I want to hear your opinion on that, since, in my eyes, it isn't overpowered but is still useful. It also allows for 4 or 5 guys working together to take down a group of 3 marines, which usually is impossible if all three marines have good aims. The only thing this ability will truly change is the strategic capability of the skulk as well as how realistic the outcome is.
<b>Description:</b>
Grab, using your jaw and legs to latch on and immobilize the target marine in melee combat, forcing him to the ground with his secondary (pistol) at the cost of your ability to move and attack yourself.
<b>Pros:</b>
You can take out a single marine as a pack of skulks easily, no matter how skilled he is
It allows a great deal of teamwork to be implemented
<b>Cons:</b>
It can't be used in 1v1, since the marine still is capable of attacking (pistol) and you aren't
You can't move or attack, which makes you a very easy target to surrounding marines
You create a hotspot where aliens will attack the downed marine, making them easy targets as well
<b>Explanation:</b>
When the skulk attacks, it literally shoves it's face into the target, which makes it very hard to see and even harder to navigate. On top of that, when you're in melee combat range, you're forced to run around your prey to avoid being shot, which makes it even harder to see and attack. You can't move in a straight line, which means you can't run away and you can't run towards, you can't stand still either, so all you're left to do is running around in panic, hoping for a leg to pop up at your screen.
The reason I think this ability would be needed is because, to me, it seems like it should be easy to take out a skilled marine as 3 skulks. Every time I attack in a pack of skulks, and the entire pack gets killed by 2 marines with good aims, I'm left with a feeling that, if I were an actual skulk, I'd just latch on to the arm of one of them and hold them down so the others could get it over with. Instead, I'm manhandled by a rifle along with the other skulks without doing any damage because it's to hard to navigate once you're in the fight, and your maneuvering is useless against a skilled shooter.
Think back to the fights in the schoolyard where a big bully would get knocked over by a group of small kids latching on to his arms and legs, trying to get him down.
<i>Following are a few scenarios. When the skulks attack, we're presuming they get first hit, while it's the opposite with the marines.</i>
<b>Scenario 1:</b> 1 rifle marine, 2 skulks
Skulks attack: One of them holds him down while the other takes him out. The marine might get a few pistol shots off, wounding one of the skulks but not killing it.
Marine attacks: Marine shoots one of the skulks, the other one grabs the marine, the marine finishes the skulk with his pistol.
<b>Scenario 2:</b> 2 rifle marines, 1 shotgun marine, 3 skulks
Skulks attack: One of them holds down the shotgun guy, leaving the others to finish him. The 2 other marines shoots and kills at least 2 skulks, leaving the surviving to flee, if it can.
Marines attack: The rifle marines shoot one skulk, the shotgun marine takes one in close combat, the last skulk is left to flee, if it can.
<b>Scenario 3:</b> 2 rifle marines, 5 skulks
Skulks attack: Two skulks hold down each marine, the remaining skulks finish them off, a single skulk is perhaps lost to the pistol fire, probably not though.
Marines attack: The marines take out a single skulk, one skulk then goes to grab one of the marines, the other skulks attack the grabbed marine, the other marine shoots and kills one of the skulks in the group, the first marine is killed, one skulk grabs the marine and the last two finish him.
<b>Scenario 4:</b> 3 rifle marines, 5 skulks
Skulks attack: 3 skulks grabs the 3 marines, 2 skulks help finish 2 of the marines, the last marine kills the skulk with the pistol and is in turn killed by the other skulks. Other skulks most likely hurt by pistol fire, but not severely.
Marines attack: 2 marines kill one skulk, 1 marine severely damages another. (a) 3 skulks hold down a marine each, the last skulk helps finish one of the marines, the lasting two marines kill a skulk each with pistol fire and kill the remaining 2 skulks, one of them being easy since it was hurt. (b) One skulk holds down one of the marines while the remaining 3 finish him fast. The 2 marines shoot and kill one of the skulks. 2 skulks grab the marines while the last skulk finish one of them. Meanwhile, the last marine kills the skulk holding him with pistol fire, gets on his legs, shoots the damaged skulk while the last skulk manages to kill the last marine.
I've tried my best to polarize the outcome to be as favorable as can be to each side depending on who gets first strike. From my point of view, it seems balanced, since it's useless against large groups of marines and can't be abused with 5 skulks grabbing 5 marines and a 6th to walk around and finishing them one by one, since the marines all have access to their secondary (pistol).
I'd greatly appreciate some critizism since I know there will be people who think this will be unbalanced and I want to hear your opinion on that, since, in my eyes, it isn't overpowered but is still useful. It also allows for 4 or 5 guys working together to take down a group of 3 marines, which usually is impossible if all three marines have good aims. The only thing this ability will truly change is the strategic capability of the skulk as well as how realistic the outcome is.
Comments
as long as you have a split second to rifle butt the skulk off you before you get taken down or something like that
The majority of skulks right now aren't playing the class correctly. They don't wall jump for increased speed, they don't use walls, they don't ambush, they don't use their mobility to harass. Right now most skulks walk down a hallway with, at best, some lateral movement. For an above average player these people are easy fodder.
The skulk is an incredibly powerful unit when played properly. This ability would be a big boost and I don't see the need. The marines already have to go against a fair amount of crowd control and I wouldn't want to see another added -- to any class.
I would rather see Xenocide reworked (buffed) than to add a crowd control ability to the most played class.
The majority of skulks right now aren't playing the class correctly. They don't wall jump for increased speed, they don't use walls, they don't ambush, they don't use their mobility to harass. Right now most skulks walk down a hallway with, at best, some lateral movement. For an above average player these people are easy fodder.
The skulk is an incredibly powerful unit when played properly. This ability would be a big boost and I don't see the need. The marines already have to go against a fair amount of crowd control and I wouldn't want to see another added -- to any class.
I would rather see Xenocide reworked (buffed) than to add a crowd control ability to the most played class.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can see your point and you're right, a lot of players, including myself sometimes, aren't using the skulk properly, charging in without a care in the world, high on pack mentality, however, it's my experience that once you've delivered the first hit as a skulk, no matter how well planned, you're screwed, forced to run around, hoping that the marine doesn't shoot you, waiting for a body part to pop up in front of you because if you take time to gain an overview of the situation, you'll be shot by the prey or his allies.
My point is that it's easier to be a truly skilled marine than it is to be a truly skilled skulk, due to the fact that the marines' main skill is aiming and shooting, while skulks need to navigate properly around the map terrain, remain undetected before the initial contact with the prey, predetermine the route and actions of the prey and maintain an overview, not only of the terrain and options, but of the locations of everyone so you can navigate without looking directly at the prey until the last second where you deliver the strike. I'm not saying skulk is under powered, it's fast, strong and small, it can just be incredibly tough to remain a deadly opponent when in close range due to skill rather than luck.
What I mean by 'luck' is as in getting the kill because you were lucky, because the target popped up on your screen as you were running around or that the target was confused which gave you time to stand back and gain some overview. If the marine can aim, though, you can't rely on luck, you can't wait for him to screw up because that'll get you killed, which means you can't take any chances, you can't hope for anything, you'll have to take him down with superior numbers, which means you'd have to be 4-5 skulks to take down a truly skilled marine.
I'd like to demonstrate this with a scenario, since, as you've probably found out, I'm quite fond of those.
Scenario: 1 rifle marine, 4 skulks
Skulks attack: The skulks all attack, let's say from the ceiling, first delivering a single hit, alerting the marine of the situation, and perhaps getting to deliver a second hit, before the marine has acquired and shot a target. 2 of the skulks run around the marine, biting into the air, hoping for him to pop up on the screen, while the third retreats to gain overview. The marine gets a second hit due to good aim and well executed maneuvering, and thus kills the second one. The marine is most likely badly wounded, however, he's got a good commander that's been dropping him a few med packs because the marine was able to sustain damage for enough time for the commander to take notice of his situation. The marine is in tip top shape and shoots the last skulk running around him, stops to reload or switches to pistol and finishes off the retreating skulk. Keep in mind this all happened within less than 5 seconds.
Marine attacks: The marine shoots and kills a single skulk, alerting the remaining 3 skulks of the situation. While they're either advancing to melee range or retreating to take him from another direction, he shoots and kills a second one. The last two skulks get a bite each, at best, before a third is shot. The last skulk is then brutally manhandled by the menacing marine with no love or mercy to be found in his heart.
I greatly realize that my scenarios are flawed, that it's too much to hope for to try and foresee the future, but these are scenario inspired by experiences from either being a participating skulk or an observing commander, so they aren't entirely false.
To answer your question regarding tech, I'm visualizing it as a skill obtained around the same time as you get leap, so you'll have it by the mid of the game but, if the commander wants, he can get it early on.
That sounds really good, actually. It makes sense, since you'd need to come flying if you'd have to knock down the guy.