To all the people asking for major balance changes.
NurEinMensch
Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
Give it a bit more time.
There are plenty threads pointing out problems with game balance and offering possible solutions. And it may very well be that certain adjustments are necessary. In fact it is likely that this is the case. But I am asking all of you who feel that way to have a little bit more patience. I believe it is too early to want anything major.
For the past years the game has (obviously) gone through many changes. Features were added and removed, damage tables tweaked, timings modified etc. On average we have seen a new "public" build every fortnight. Often changing the balance quite noticeable. And just when people (clans being the forerunners) started to figure things out, a new patch was released and we were back at the drawing board. Sometimes right before a tournament was held.
Now thousands of new players have joined our ranks. Outside the well established community servers many games you run into consist of mainly newer people with little experience, trying out things and recapitulating the development many here have gone though over the course of the last 2 years. And they come to the forums to complain when they perceive problems. Sometimes we agree with them, sometimes we show them how to overcome those problems. But even though many here have played the alpha and beta for quite some time now, we all are relatively inexperienced with the game in its current state.
Give all of us more time to develop the meta game. Those of us who are used to having to relearn strategies every other week will now have the opportunity to dig deeper. And those who are new to the game will need time to understand basic strategies and their counters. And that's why we shouldn't ask for big changes to the game just yet. The ideal way to deal with perceived imbalance X may be right in front of our eyes. We just haven't seen it, yet.
There are plenty threads pointing out problems with game balance and offering possible solutions. And it may very well be that certain adjustments are necessary. In fact it is likely that this is the case. But I am asking all of you who feel that way to have a little bit more patience. I believe it is too early to want anything major.
For the past years the game has (obviously) gone through many changes. Features were added and removed, damage tables tweaked, timings modified etc. On average we have seen a new "public" build every fortnight. Often changing the balance quite noticeable. And just when people (clans being the forerunners) started to figure things out, a new patch was released and we were back at the drawing board. Sometimes right before a tournament was held.
Now thousands of new players have joined our ranks. Outside the well established community servers many games you run into consist of mainly newer people with little experience, trying out things and recapitulating the development many here have gone though over the course of the last 2 years. And they come to the forums to complain when they perceive problems. Sometimes we agree with them, sometimes we show them how to overcome those problems. But even though many here have played the alpha and beta for quite some time now, we all are relatively inexperienced with the game in its current state.
Give all of us more time to develop the meta game. Those of us who are used to having to relearn strategies every other week will now have the opportunity to dig deeper. And those who are new to the game will need time to understand basic strategies and their counters. And that's why we shouldn't ask for big changes to the game just yet. The ideal way to deal with perceived imbalance X may be right in front of our eyes. We just haven't seen it, yet.
Comments
Time has been given, Tres Onos has been complained about for a long time already. The majority of us who are complaining about Aliens being broken are not new players, we are mostly Beta testers and it was mentioned before release. Now that the game is "public" UWE arn't as capable of totally flipping balance from 1 week to another andwe are now burdened with Onos till the next major balance patch... I feel it is our duty to get the point across before this next balance patch because if it is not corrected in the <i>next</i> one then once again we will have to wait a considerable period of time between further balance patches.
However, it is not the end-all tactic to be used, and the new players especially, just need to get more comfortable with the game and have time to develop their skillset, as well as figuring out tactics that work.
Me and my gaming mates usually say to each other that we should give the game a few weeks or maybe even months until people coming in since release have learned the ropes and start using other strats than just early Onos.
Starting to tweak numbers for balance right now, is most likely just going to slow down the process of learning the game, if you need to develop new strategies every other day.
UWE, please, before you start crunching numbers, let the game settle first. Let new (and old for that matter) players get comfortable with the game as it is right now.
i'm not familiar with the UWE balancing methods, but i sincerely hope that it's not going to be 'beta' intrusive (like blizzard balance *shudder*) now that the game is released. changing anything will ALWAYS have unforseen consequences, the hole can get dug deeper and deeper until eventually you're drowning in surface runoff and players run out of patience.
i believe that anyone in the competitive community would agree with me in saying that the balance is more or less perfect in pub server play. the priority balancing can therefore be focused on making the competitive matches more diverse and thus more fun to play and watch.
right now competitive is a great spectacle, very entertaining. but indeed the more recent matches are almost always the same onos rush build which means the first 10 minutes of almost every match is exactly the same, and only after the 10 minute mark do you start to see strategy and diverging play.
most of all, i don't want stuff to become obsolete... for example right now the shotgun is a fantastic defensive weapon, but you can't focus a target from across the room nor effectively 'chase down' a fleeing fade or onos etc - therefore basic assault rifle is still very useful. if shotgun was noticeably weaker than the current implementation, i'm not sure i could justify the 20 pres cost.
The problem is that balance is "fine" (aliens are slightly too powerful if you ask me) due to early onos being crazy OP.
Once this is removed it will become apparent how bad balance is due to the majority of the Alien tech tree being too weak whilst the Tres onos is too powerful.
Once this is removed it will become apparent how bad balance is due to the majority of the Alien tech tree being too weak whilst the Tres onos is too powerful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol... that's a hunch you have, with no evidence besides what you experience in rookie pub servers?
i watched the release date tourney vods on twitchtv, alien won >90% and thus almost every match was a 3-2 score (alternating teams). although 6-7 min onos was seen in almost every game, the gameplay after the initial onos was killed and before the initial onos arrived seemed to be fine. there were situations where a single skulk was able to kill 2 marines, situations where double fade were able to hit n run - getting a kill in a 3-4 v 1 situation and then backing off to heal etc.
the game was great aside from the fact that alien won a LOT, and admittedly that could be due to the fact that onos rush forces marines to group up and inevitably leave their extractors vulnerable. it's too early to call it broken, at least give people a chance to search for a more effective response to the onos rush.
That said, I do think that it is not unconstructive for players to voice their feelings about the game, especially with respect to their perception that aliens are a much harder race to enjoy playing at the moment. It is too easy to conflate MvA balance issues with the alien's internal balance issues, which has more to do with the problem of the aliens being not as enjoyable to play as one would imagine, or in comparison to when they were in NS1 - a completely legitimate comparison to make.
I would like to also call for more self-awareness, more frankness and more civility towards each other and the devs from the more vocal members of the community. To use an example, Temphage's posts often strikes a chord with myself, but at the same time I can completely see how some of his posts, such as his proposal for a radical redesigning of the upgrade system, as interesting as it is, can be perceived as a form of disrespect towards the developers. I haven't quite mentioned it to him yet, but I always wanted to. Hopefully you don't mind Temp :p
Lets be realistic. The game is not going to change that quickly - it just launched. Nor is the game going to stay the way it is now, as much as it might be "perfectly balanced" as some are quick to claim. In the end all this is going to play itself out somehow. Let us please just not kill each other in the process!
C'mon tarquinbb, the quickest way to derail the conversation is to ask someone to l2p or to accuse his entire community of being rookies.
As someone who played comp before the onos rush thing became viable it was perfectly fine. Hive type could be dependant on the map (for a short time anyway, before cara nerf it was all cara and a certain time later it was cele) and the only real arguement regarding aliens not being diverse is that they can't stick to 1 base play which is what the fast onos thing will do when it becomes balanced. Other than that, alien play is actually much more diverse in comp because of lifeform and evolution choices. Marines strategy is limited compared to it. Other than close spawn position strats, it is mostly about phasegate placement and the timing for jetpacks.
In pubs however both sides are equal in strategic choices and balance, unless the marine com is dumb and gets a robo to spam sentries. They should just remove sentries from pubs, or put a "dont build this yet, you retard" message on the robo if you build it before the protolab.
C'mon tarquinbb, the quickest way to derail the conversation is to ask someone to l2p or to accuse his entire community of being rookies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Make sure you use the pie chart with the 50/50 win/loss like Captain America's shield too :D