Minor timing push balance tweak
Swiftspear
Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
<div class="IPBDescription">addressing the NS2 slippery slope</div>(if you don't care about why I'm making these suggestions, skip down to the "Suggestions:" section. Don't expect me to respect your comments if you clearly haven't read the rest though)
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Rationale:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
It can be a big problem in NS2. Your team lost a couple res nodes early in the game, or you lost a key lifeform/structure. There's not a lot that can be done to regain an advantage and salvage a win in NS2 once it's lost.
Other RTS games have significantly mitigated this problem, In StarCraft 2 you regularly see players loose advantage in the beginning of the game and come back at a later point for the win. Certainly not always, an advantage is an advantage, but a comeback is definitely less of an unheard of thing.
One of the main reasons for this is that at any given time in SC2, there is the option of investing in what has been termed as a timing push, or at it's extreme an all in.
Basically, what this means is, for a period of time in order to gain a stronger army a player will stop investing in improving technology and improving economy, and entirely focus on improving army strength. The result in this is that the player gets behind economically, but they are propelled well ahead militaristically. These points in a SC2 game, or really any RTS game, represent the times where game advantage changes hands. If a player invests heavily into military and fails to do enough damage to their opponent to offset their investment, than the attacking player falls behind and the defending player pushes ahead. Likewise, if the attack succeeds, most often the attacker immediately wins the game, but alternatively he does enough damage to pull ahead. These times are very important in RTS games, as very rarely in a standard RTS are you able to significantly damage your opponent without making some sort of economic sacrifice into your militaristic spending, so you are often forced to make that choice at some point throughout the game. And the execution and defense of these moments are the factors that ultimately dictate who wins and when. This mechanic allows for a come back by stifling a bad timing on the opponents part, or by hitting a good timing on your own part, and at the same time it gives the player with the advantage more of an ability to press that advantage decisively. It keeps the game from degrading into a situation where the conclusion is completely foregone.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Analysis:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
In NS2, if your team is doing a good job and the opponents are doing a good job, your discretionary spending income is pretty low. You pretty much have enough resources to drop medkits semi regularly, and perform the basic build order tasks that are expected from you as the comm, and not much else. Upgrades are pretty much a foregone conclusion. You will not spend money on weapons, you will spend money on upgrades. For 20 res you make all the guns stronger for all your marines, as opposed to the other alternative of dropping 1 shotgun. The gun is pretty much impossible to make worth it. Nanosheild is important, but also generally hard to afford.
Consequently, in NS2 the comm doesn't so much make tactical decisions, they are pretty much relegated to just performing algorithmic tasks. There are very few instances where an NS2 comm really has the option of attempting to organize a timing attack or an all in push.
This is likewise for Alien Comm. He/she is expected to pretty much just get the correct things as quickly as possible. Lifeform upgrades and Resource towers. The Alien comm is generally in an even worse position because asside from dropping eggs, he pretty much has no offensive options. His platform is entirely defense. And the defensive solutions are absurdly more economical than the offensive ones available to him. I personally feel the Alien comm should be given more direct support and offensive capabilities to help his team, but that's a topic for another suggestion thread.
Since in the cases of both commanders, they really do not have viable options for investing in offense, they are relegated to not investing in offense, and rather only investing in tech and economy. What needs to happen is that economic and upgrade investment needs to be more taxing and investment into offense and equipment needs to be more affordable from the commander's perspective.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Suggestion:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Double the rate of income from resource towers. Double the cost of all structures the comm builds. Triple the cost of upgrades and resource towers. Do not modify the commander cost of nano-shield, and weapon drops, egg drops. Additionally, something like an activatible ability at the armory that gives a similar effect to catalyst from NS1 for a duration of time could add in-field offensive options to the comm, and decreasing the tech tier (and probably the effectiveness) of ARC's would also make this offensive options more viable. Something offensive or supporting player offensive ability should be added for the alien comm as well, but I don't have a great idea for that right now.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Rationale:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
It can be a big problem in NS2. Your team lost a couple res nodes early in the game, or you lost a key lifeform/structure. There's not a lot that can be done to regain an advantage and salvage a win in NS2 once it's lost.
Other RTS games have significantly mitigated this problem, In StarCraft 2 you regularly see players loose advantage in the beginning of the game and come back at a later point for the win. Certainly not always, an advantage is an advantage, but a comeback is definitely less of an unheard of thing.
One of the main reasons for this is that at any given time in SC2, there is the option of investing in what has been termed as a timing push, or at it's extreme an all in.
Basically, what this means is, for a period of time in order to gain a stronger army a player will stop investing in improving technology and improving economy, and entirely focus on improving army strength. The result in this is that the player gets behind economically, but they are propelled well ahead militaristically. These points in a SC2 game, or really any RTS game, represent the times where game advantage changes hands. If a player invests heavily into military and fails to do enough damage to their opponent to offset their investment, than the attacking player falls behind and the defending player pushes ahead. Likewise, if the attack succeeds, most often the attacker immediately wins the game, but alternatively he does enough damage to pull ahead. These times are very important in RTS games, as very rarely in a standard RTS are you able to significantly damage your opponent without making some sort of economic sacrifice into your militaristic spending, so you are often forced to make that choice at some point throughout the game. And the execution and defense of these moments are the factors that ultimately dictate who wins and when. This mechanic allows for a come back by stifling a bad timing on the opponents part, or by hitting a good timing on your own part, and at the same time it gives the player with the advantage more of an ability to press that advantage decisively. It keeps the game from degrading into a situation where the conclusion is completely foregone.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Analysis:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
In NS2, if your team is doing a good job and the opponents are doing a good job, your discretionary spending income is pretty low. You pretty much have enough resources to drop medkits semi regularly, and perform the basic build order tasks that are expected from you as the comm, and not much else. Upgrades are pretty much a foregone conclusion. You will not spend money on weapons, you will spend money on upgrades. For 20 res you make all the guns stronger for all your marines, as opposed to the other alternative of dropping 1 shotgun. The gun is pretty much impossible to make worth it. Nanosheild is important, but also generally hard to afford.
Consequently, in NS2 the comm doesn't so much make tactical decisions, they are pretty much relegated to just performing algorithmic tasks. There are very few instances where an NS2 comm really has the option of attempting to organize a timing attack or an all in push.
This is likewise for Alien Comm. He/she is expected to pretty much just get the correct things as quickly as possible. Lifeform upgrades and Resource towers. The Alien comm is generally in an even worse position because asside from dropping eggs, he pretty much has no offensive options. His platform is entirely defense. And the defensive solutions are absurdly more economical than the offensive ones available to him. I personally feel the Alien comm should be given more direct support and offensive capabilities to help his team, but that's a topic for another suggestion thread.
Since in the cases of both commanders, they really do not have viable options for investing in offense, they are relegated to not investing in offense, and rather only investing in tech and economy. What needs to happen is that economic and upgrade investment needs to be more taxing and investment into offense and equipment needs to be more affordable from the commander's perspective.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Suggestion:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Double the rate of income from resource towers. Double the cost of all structures the comm builds. Triple the cost of upgrades and resource towers. Do not modify the commander cost of nano-shield, and weapon drops, egg drops. Additionally, something like an activatible ability at the armory that gives a similar effect to catalyst from NS1 for a duration of time could add in-field offensive options to the comm, and decreasing the tech tier (and probably the effectiveness) of ARC's would also make this offensive options more viable. Something offensive or supporting player offensive ability should be added for the alien comm as well, but I don't have a great idea for that right now.
Comments
This would be quite an interesting idea to try out. It would allow he good commanders to provide more on-the-map changes and support while not sacrificing their longer strategic goals.
This would be quite an interesting idea to try out. It would allow he good commanders to provide more on-the-map changes and support while not sacrificing their longer strategic goals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's crazy is when you realize how cheap and easy it is to get an ARC up. It's Tech 1, and only needs a lousy 15 res upgrade. It's cheaper than a Shotgun.