Anyone else feel sheepish about commanding?
DarkScythe
Join Date: 2012-08-30 Member: 156876Members
Join Date: 2012-08-30 Member: 156876Members
Hey everyone,
I've been playing the beta a bit more now, and getting adjusted to it.
I really want to try commanding though, but I never did it all too often back in NS1.
The main problem I have is, I just feel extremely sheepish about actually hopping into the chair/hive in most games.
It feels terrible when you get overwhelmed with requests, or you make a bad call, and/or your team starts losing because everyone starts yelling at you.
Perhaps not everyone does this, but from my experience, many players will absolutely start blasting you about your "commanding" if you so much as miss a medpack.
I wonder if anyone else feels the same way? I'd love to learn to comm eventually, but as it is, I feel it's easier just to stay a grunt and run around the map, lol.
I've been playing the beta a bit more now, and getting adjusted to it.
I really want to try commanding though, but I never did it all too often back in NS1.
The main problem I have is, I just feel extremely sheepish about actually hopping into the chair/hive in most games.
It feels terrible when you get overwhelmed with requests, or you make a bad call, and/or your team starts losing because everyone starts yelling at you.
Perhaps not everyone does this, but from my experience, many players will absolutely start blasting you about your "commanding" if you so much as miss a medpack.
I wonder if anyone else feels the same way? I'd love to learn to comm eventually, but as it is, I feel it's easier just to stay a grunt and run around the map, lol.
Comments
for my first commanding session, it was a game with only half full server (6 vs 6 or so) and anyone else was hopping into the hive (was alien comm). So I just bounced in and well... got a bit overwhelmed. In theory I knew what to do, but I didn't know the short cuts and so on, so I needed some time to adjust.
But my teammates were really cool, reminded me all the time what to do and what to research and weren't angry at all. We even won this game and I thanked the team for being so nice. :D
So, try it out. Most players will help you and answer your questions. Just ask. The worst commanders weren't the guys who said it is their first time, but the guys who just make nothing and did not say a word.
And I would rather do first time comm as alien, as I find the mechanics for alien commander a bit easier to understand, and you don't get "medpack" and "ammo" spam-messages all the time. :D
so long
Of course, as you may know from real life, leader-like qualities aren't in abundance, but at least NS2 is just a game so you have the chance to try again without anyone remembering any previous failures but yourself.
imo there are a few things you could pay attention to for people not to get annoyed:
-make sure not to let people wait when they are in position to build an extractor (this might be the #1 cause for eject votes)
-listen to suggestions ("can we get welders"), they usually make sense; if they don't, it's at least not your fault
-pay attention to the minimap and inform your team when one of your bases is under attack (middle mouse for that flashy !-ping)
-get familiar with the beacon ability (distress signal at the observatory) and use it when people yell "BEACON! BEACON!"
-communicate a lot, explain your tech/structure choices or why you refuse to chose them (e.g. "cannot afford it right now")
It's not that I haven't ever commed before, but it hasn't been something I've done enough to really get in and be comfortable with.
Maybe as you guys suggest, I should just bite the bullet and hop in and lose a few rounds. Hopefully everyone will understand.
I do try to keep communication up with everyone regardless of whether I'm comm or not, and checking the minimap very often, so that's not too hard to do as a comm.
The biggest thing is probably as a comm, since you have the minimap up at all times, I'm tempted to respond to every single thing that pops up (versus some events I'd miss as a ground troop because I'm engaged in a fight or something.)
There have also been one or two instances where we were stalemated, and we weren't really making any progress, so I'd start an attack, and the aliens would counter by attacking our expansion base. Usually I'd go defend, but as that was the whole reason for the stalemate, I'd eventually gamble on trading it for an alien hive or two, and lose the bet.
My only comm pet peeve is when there is zero communication. Get a mic! $5 + tax at Walmart.
When all's said just go for it. Go balls deep. What do you have to lose but interweb respect on a video game? You're a better person than that.
The only thing you need to do is get people to follow your commands, have a basic understanding of the RTS mechanics (kill extractors, build your own, kill hives/cc), and somewhat of a vision of what you want your team to do at what point in time. Different build orders are practically non-existent, since marines NEED to rush phase tech and everything else is pretty much the same from there. (There's simply very little depth to it all) All you need to know as a marine commander in this regard is : DONT BUILD SENTRY GUNS. (Arcs are fine but only late in the game when you have nothing else to waste res on) I guess dropping medpacks and ammo requires some 'precision', but it's really not that big of a deal (if people yell at you for missing the drops they're simply jerks). Aside from that you just need to keep a vigilant eye on your base for timely beacons.
As an alien commander it's even more laughable (Drop second hive insta, then crag or shift). The NS 2 commander, particularly for aliens, is primarily about communicating and leading. There's not all that much strategy involved really.
Anyway, I guess you should play alien khammander to get accustomed to the comming experience, learn to communicate with your team and get used to the mechanics, then move up to marine commander.
I have a few basic build orders
Fast PG/ARMOUR 1
* RT
* RT
* OBS -> Research PG Tech
* Split your team into 3 mini squads. 2 going in each direction out of spawn and the last squad heading to the opposite end of the map
* Establish PG at opposite tech point
* Drop PG
* Armoury
* Arms Lab -> Armour 1 (finishes around 5 minutes)
Play from there
Zerg.
* Armoury -> Research Shotgun
* RT
* RT
* Obs
* Beacon -> Tell all marines to purchase shotgun and rush hive
* 1 marine capping RT's on far side of map (away from their hive)
Grenades LOL
* Armoury -> Research Advanced Armoury
* RT
* RT
* RT
* RT
* Obs -> Research PG
* Research Grenade Launcher
* Rush Hive (Establish PG near hive)
Obviously you have to adjust based on the performance of your marines (how well they hold / attack RT's) and you only learn this from experience. This ###### won't work in comp but it makes pub games interesting.
The other thing to realise is sometimes you just get out fragged by the other team, this does not reflect on your ability to comm.
For everything else just ask the team what they need or what you should build. There's usually at least one experienced player on the team.
Like someone above said, as long as you make some effort to communicate positively, you aren't likely to be flamed.
2) Be sure in yourself by constantly analyzing your own play for mistakes. Criticism always sounds better when it's coming from yourself.
3) Practice your technical med/ammo drop skills
4) Go into a game with a plan but be prepared to change it if the situation dictates (e.g. not holding up extractors or map control could = cheese gl rush into robo walling in if it fails).
*edit*
5) Don't build sentries
- Do create a local server
- type "cheats 1" in the console => the round will start even if there is anybody in.
- go in the cc/hive and explore the menu, the buildings, the map, the upgrades, the requirement for building that or that, and a bit of the mechanic of the alien side.
- Once you tried everything, go in rookies servers with 16 slots max. Go in and try it in action :)
The very important things are: ORGANIZE, LISTEN, EXPLAIN, LEAD. ie: make your strategy, listen to your team, explain what you do and what's your goal, and lead the guys on the field.
About the LEAD aspect, you'll figure out what you need to do. If something doesn't work, just try something. It may get some time to do it but if you hold well it doesn't matter. Once i was Marine comm and my team was doing ok, we held 2 terminal and locker room on docking. They had 3 hives. I asked a guy to get a dual minigun, and go alone to tram departure with ARCs and MACs, while the others kept attacking Cafeteria. The result was that they lost Tram AND cafeteria so they only had 1 hives left => you win. If a way doesn't work just try another one.
The mic is really important and your team will be much more efficient with proper quick orders.
Good luck and if you need help ask me => PM ;)
EDIT:
<!--quoteo(post=1988266:date=Oct 8 2012, 12:27 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Oct 8 2012, 12:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1988266"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5) Don't build sentries<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The BEST ADVICE you can have :)
It's also good to learn some commonly-used keys to save time:
Marines:
QS - extractor
EA - ammo
ES - medpack
ED - nanoshield
Aliens:
QA(repeat A after click) - cyst (you MUST use this otherwise your life will be very painful as alien com)
QS - harvester
Click on shift/shade + S(repeat S after click) - spam eggs/ink
Click on crag/drifter - Z - use ability (heal wave, enzymes)
People will always whine about medpacks or ammo on marine side, but sometimes those people don't understand that those drops cost res which might be better used somewhere else, especially early game (e.g. saving for armory or upgrades). What you can do in that case is just say "saving for jetpacks" or "saving for weapons 2" over the mic, and if they keep whining just ignore them... :-D Oh, also remember that ammo and medpack requests are automated right now, so a lot of them are just noise when people are about to die for example. Also, a marine can be quite effective with just a pistol if you don't want to drop an ammo pack early-game, or he can be "expendable" with 10 health if you don't think it's worth medpacking him for 2 t.res. Dropping ammo and medpacks isn't something you have to do all the time; it's a strategic decision and you pay for it - sometimes dearly.
In the worst case you'll get booted from the chair X-D . YOLO right?
P.S. Also, PLEASE remember that you can orient phase gates on marine side. Placing a PG isn't a double-click, it's a single click, orient exit face, single click. PG facing a wall or a drop is really annoying for your team ;-) .
Some marine tips:
- It is not just about your own res flow and upgrades. It's all about being in an advantageous res flow situation compared to your opponent. It is quite common to see new marine comms happily camp a few res towers while happily giving the rest of the map to aliens. This leads to early higher life forms and a marine loss.
- Use Phase Gates. They are absolutely key to marine victory as they allow you to spend less time running (and getting ambushed) and more time on target. When attacking hives etc, PG allows you to follow up with reinforcements. When placed in a central location, the gates allow for great map control.
- Pressure. If you can have your team apply pressure to points where it is advantageous for you, you can force the opponent to react and commit there, which can leave your RTs and expansion bases untouched. In a sense, offence is the best defence, sometimes.
- Don't be afraid to use med/ammo packs and even spam medpacks sometimes. Often, when comms don't spend on medpacks, their team keeps making same more or less successful attacks time and again, only to lose the gained ground again. This wastes your time and wastes your position, so it basically means you are giving away a part of your map control to save a few res. Also, a team that doesn't receive support from comm will be pretty frustrated!
Some alien tips:
- You can live off 2 hives and 2 RTs pretty easily. No need to spam RTs like the marines do. Aliens have hard time holding any RTs before they get a few upgrades, so you often should just play conservatively and do not try to overextend.
- Scout, scout, scout. Try and make sure no area near your bases stays ignored for long, as sneaky marines will try and ninja your chambers and RTs or build PGs in key locations. When possible, use drifters. Drifters usually end up paying for themselves, because they allow you to respond in time to marine attacks.
- Don't be afraid to leave the hive from time to time. Just talk on microphone and explain you are still comming and you are just killing that marine at your hive RT.
What he said.
Get a decent headset and just talk back.
There will be at least one person with a headset that will respond and you'll figure it out together.
A noob com isn't much of a problem if you can communicate.
I'd say as many others; Just do it. Read up on what structures do, maybe write an upgrade path down on a piece of paper so you don't forget it, and have a pre-planned strategy that you can refer to if things get too chaotic. In general, always have a plan on what you want to achieve with a specific game, and how you achieve it. Allow for some flexibility in what upgrades comes first. If you have 4 people who wants celerity before carapace then go celerity before carapace.
Don't get stuck in a "we must have x first always" because as the meta evolves you'll start to lose more and more if you don't adapt.
Look at how other comms are doing it, and where they place their structures. I see a lot of comms place gateways/arms/phasegates really really poorly (myself included sometimes in moments of stress) and remember when you're a khammander, that you can get a lot more milage out of your team by building unconventionally. Very few khammanders build crags and shades outside of hives, however they provide a big bonus to your team if you build midway stations (much like armories for Commanders) that units can retreat to and heal up quickly.
There's a lot of helpful players out there who are not afraid of giving advise, so just ask if you're in doubt. As said, we're still in beta and most of us are NS enthusiasts who want to see a better community, and therefor will not punish you. If 1 out of 8 players scream at you, it is still only one out of eight. Just ignore the negativity, and don't engage in arguments.
And as always - Learn the maps. Really really learn the maps. Map control is the key to winning, and knowing where to expand/push/exploit is incredibly important.
Tell your team your situation, they will most likely be happy to help you win.
A good commander should have a mic though, most of the best games Ive played are where everyones on voicecomms calling out.
If you wanna try out commanding Im sure people will help arrange something on here.
I don't mind if people command but if they do it they better do it right.
Mic and communication a essential to commanding and anyone who commands without it is bound to fail.
of course when some know-it-all zitface starts yelling at you about something that makes it unfun.
And remember when comming you are never wrong.
Also choose a moment when nobody else wants to comm. Then if someone gives you a hard time, you can simply say "nobody else wanted to do it" and if he further pursues being a d*ck, "do it yourself then" and simply leave comm.
<b>PSA:</b> If you're a marine and someone else ###### to comm, and you disagree, please voice out your opinion - comm rarely has time to spare for every dimwit, so he's prolly grateful if you give him a hand.
Also comm your first time as Kharaa. You can just put carapace up and proceed to make a mess out of things for the next 30 minutes and nobody prolly notices.
I'm not quite so new to commanding that I don't already know these things, but it's good to read up on these again, and no doubt be especially helpful to really new comms if they stumble across this thread.
That said, you guys did give me enough confidence to give it a shot last night. Wasn't able to do alien khamm, but I did comm 3 marine rounds. Funny enough, there were a few people that joined my team and asked if I was the guy that made this thread. :P Thank you to all of you!
People were largely quite friendly and helpful, though there were a few guys who complained.
First round I commed on Mineshaft was probably the worst game. One guy told me that the rest of the team must have muted me or something (and admitted he was outright ignoring me because he wanted to ninja the alien upgrades) because they all kept going the complete opposite direction from where I told them to go. As a result, they kept rushing their hive (Cave) and was unable to even hold the Operations res. (My plan was to sweep past Operations into Refinery and Ore early, ignoring double until we had the tech points locked down. They got as far as Gap.) After about 5 minutes, we had lost everything and it was pretty clear what the outcome was. No one objected to a recycle, so I ended it there.
I commed Tram, but we won largely because my team was somewhat stacked. We started in Shipping, and immediately started capping up both sides of the map. Aliens started Warehouse and went Shade hive, immediately dropped Server. I put up Phase gates in Repair and Elevator ASAP, then the two groups went to attack Ore and Server. Ore group kept pushing into Warehouse; I wanted them to take out the RT, but they weren't able to. I think we killed their silence upgrade, though. Server, I supported the team with meds and scans until they killed the hive. I believe we were base rushed at some point, so I beaconed, but I was criticized for doing so, since I believe only one skulk was alive by the time the beacon actually went off. We were pushed back, but we had PG's up, so I JP rushed Warehouse. They redropped Server, so we did a combined Exo+JP attack on it.
Finally commed Veil, but that didn't go so well again. I rushed PG's again, and had my team attempt to take Nanogrid, but after being defeated 2 or 3 times and not being able to actually get into Nanogrid, I told everyone to forget it and secure Sub instead. From there I attempted to get an aggressive PG in Y junction, but was unable to do so, as their skulk squad killed my marines. I then researched JP's and told everyone to do a JP rush on Cargo. Unfortunately, they refused to go into Cargo for whatever reason and started dying. One guy started trying to tell everyone else to vote eject me for not researching Exo's. I responded by saying if he wanted to comm, to just let me know instead of trying to eject me, and pointed out that we had jetpacks which were far more beneficial in attacking Cargo. Didn't hear much after that. (What is the deal with everyone wanting Exos?) I did eventually research them, though I was trying to get the other upgrades first. I remember waiting to research Armor3, but only had 25 res and I wanted to keep 10 minimum available for a beacon, so I went and supported/watched my team for a while. Next thing I know I had 111 res. Whoops. In any case, they were stopped at Cargo, and they Onos rushed Sub. As the PG went down, I told everyone at base to get a JP/Exo while they still could, and immediately had them rushing Pipe. I told 2-3 guys to stay at base because I knew the Onos would be coming next. Unfortunately, the 3 Exo's pushing Pipe were unable to keep their lights alive, and were pounded into oblivion without welder support. (In retrospect, I should have built a Robotics factory and some MACs prior to this series of events.)
At that, it was game as the aliens rushed command power.
Still, it was fun to do something different in NS.
Thanks again, everyone.