<!--quoteo(post=1982805:date=Sep 25 2012, 03:26 AM:name=eLbot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eLbot @ Sep 25 2012, 03:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1982805"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now simply isn't the time to be upset about features you wished UWE had changed before retail release, but rather time to put on our best suits and represent the caring, giving community that we have right now. This will give the core game the best chance it can get. There are some of us that want a slightly different game, separate from UWE's vision and it will be there too, we have two separate teams working on competition play alone, for a total of 4 flavors of the game that you will be able to decide between from just the next few months. Expecting clean performance out of the gate for a game like this would push back release many months, we may disagree with their decision to pull the trigger in October, but it has to be pulled at some point and all we can do if we want to be playing this game 2 years from now is to make sure we support rather then detract from their efforts.
Negativity from us will provide our friends and the public with a bad impression of the game, it's time to suck up our disappointments and instead work on fixing them using mods (which are being enchanced in 221 to auto-download from server to client) to help this game reach a proper status, both in E-sport arenas and in social gaming contexts (Gorge craft comes to mind).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems like the default ConsistencyConfig.json line is missing *.dds, which means custom crosshairs are not okay. That's quite a bummer. I can't play with the default ones seriously.
Despite that, it's nice to see 1.0 is being reached. It's not perfect, but it's good fun to play. After that the game will be refined further in terms of perf, features, maps and mods.
Maybe I'll try to crunch out a fun map for 1.0 in a couple of days.
<!--quoteo(post=1982805:date=Sep 25 2012, 01:26 PM:name=eLbot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eLbot @ Sep 25 2012, 01:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1982805"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now simply isn't the time to be upset about features you wished UWE had changed before retail release, but rather time to put on our best suits and represent the caring, giving community that we have right now. This will give the core game the best chance it can get. There are some of us that want a slightly different game, separate from UWE's vision and it will be there too, we have two separate teams working on competition play alone, for a total of 4 flavors of the game that you will be able to decide between from just the next few months. Expecting clean performance out of the gate for a game like this would push back release many months, we may disagree with their decision to pull the trigger in October, but it has to be pulled at some point and all we can do if we want to be playing this game 2 years from now is to make sure we support rather then detract from their efforts.
Negativity from us will provide our friends and the public with a bad impression of the game, it's time to suck up our disappointments and instead work on fixing them using mods (which are being enchanced in 221 to auto-download from server to client) to help this game reach a proper status, both in E-sport arenas and in social gaming contexts (Gorge craft comes to mind).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
People should learn to get over their ego and be productive if they really want NS2 to succeed. You can complain as long as you want, but if you want to play this game for more than a few month, you should simply be nice and show patience. It isn't that way that the game isn't fun or anything. It is just not perfect to our high expectations.
I'm recommending this game to all my friends, but that shouldn't mean I'm not allowed to voice criticism. I wouldn't be criticising the game so much if I didn't absolutely love and care for it. Yes, it's not perfect, no it doesn't have to be (at least not on release). It's already incredibly fun, but surely we need to keep at it on issues like the sentry gun if we ever want this game to become even better.
There's a difference between being outright negative about a game and trolling the forum, or voicing meaningful criticism on things you want to see changed. You'll always see forums packed with both, and rarely with praise, which is not to say the game doesn't deserve praise. It's simply that there's only so many times you can praise a game.
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1982845:date=Sep 25 2012, 03:04 PM:name=Skie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skie @ Sep 25 2012, 03:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1982845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seems like the default ConsistencyConfig.json line is missing *.dds, which means custom crosshairs are not okay. That's quite a bummer. I can't play with the default ones seriously.
Despite that, it's nice to see 1.0 is being reached. It's not perfect, but it's good fun to play. After that the game will be refined further in terms of perf, features, maps and mods.
Maybe I'll try to crunch out a fun map for 1.0 in a couple of days.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It actually means that custom crosshairs ARE okay. The server doesn't have any textures installed so he cannot do consistency checks on them. The problem with this is that obviously you can just paint all skulks pink.
I think one of the most important things we have to do, is to be patient if 1.0 is not what we all expect, cause 1. everyone expect something else 2. some things may be just too much work to do till release
i personaly don't believe, that everything will be fixed, that was mentioned till now in this thread ... i for myself would like to see performance at least doubled, tripled, or better quadrupled, cause im trying to run the game on a 2GHz Quad Core ... but i really can't believe this is going to happen till 1.0
I've been lurking a long time in the hope that NS2 will get close to my expectations. I hope, for everyone's sake, that the last weeks yield some massive improvements and some true insight (or at least the lessons we should have learnt).
Where's my gorge suit? I was promised a gorge suit. Then marines can infiltrate a hive, and work to sabotage the aliens from the inside out.
"Yeah, we have... uhh... 16 gorges in our hive just trolling everyone."
But seriously, we need more performance tweaks and if this means a feature lockdown until this is accomplished, then why the hell not? I'd gladly trade features for a boost in performance so we can actually bite/shoot things and not turn the game experience into a slide show. Besides, there'll be more than enough things for new players to learn when playing NS2 for the first time, what matters most is that the game's performance is top notch - this matters to everyone, new or veteran, and I think it's a smart move for the devs and for the company.
Dude.. Seriously? How do you picture that animation. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Screw climbing ladders, we need <a href="http://youtu.be/2ntboJ__c3E" target="_blank">flying onos</a> :)
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The game has definitely come a long way since the early betas, not to mention the alpha. There's still a ways to go, but congratulations on making it this far!
Scary to think the game is so close to release (Maximum a month - to keep it in october) and yet the game is still shaky. While performance has increased it still takes a pretty darn good machine to maintain decent fps late game, and even mid-game on some maps. Hit reg is horrible sometimes. The plethora of bugs (ie checkerboard, dissapearing spores etc), heck the game still crashes sometimes when you alt-tab.
Best of luck UWE, biggest challenge will probly be getting NS2, that looks worse than a lot of games, run as well as those games that look better.
Regarding consistency checks, with many community members ready to mod the game it may hinder it. If you leave servers without consistency checks there are bound to be hackers and exploiters eventually. How they deal with this will be interesting
<!--quoteo(post=1983058:date=Sep 25 2012, 10:03 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 25 2012, 10:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding consistency checks, with many community members ready to mod the game it may hinder it. If you leave servers without consistency checks there are bound to be hackers and exploiters eventually. How they deal with this will be interesting<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The server checks the files <i>that are on the server</i>. Not the ones that are forced by UWE. If the server wants to run a mod, it runs the mod with the mod's own files. These files are downloaded by the client. The client may not change these files <i>after that.</i> No problems with modding here. So what's left is custom <strike>HUDs</strike> crosshairs. They'll allow them - when the server admin doesn't want to restrict them. Another problem may occur when you want to play with 200 DMG per rifle shot while the server allows only the standard value. Well, you'd be a cheater then so that's OK. Or what do you mean?
EDIT: There should be also the possibility to let the server check what's floating around in the steam workshop, with a whitelist function. Maybe that'll be a good solution for custom HUDs and such.
<!--quoteo(post=1982644:date=Sep 24 2012, 07:55 PM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Sep 24 2012, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1982644"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. Less delay/sluggish movement for marines (no deacceleration/acceleration when changing between strafe directions)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is most likely the thing I want to see next as much as I wanted to see Fade-swipe delay removed from Blink back in the days.
But it also applies to the Kharaa as well, most notably the Skulk.
What bugs me mostly about pollish for the 1.0 release the most at the moment are:
1. Grenade launcher, graphics are all nice but the physics and animations are really off. When pulling the trigger there is like 0.5 second delay for the projectile to launch making it feel laggy. Also the constant horizontal position of the projectile as it bounces around is odd.
2. Lerk jumping models. They are fine when climbing roofs and walls, but when you see 3 or so skulks run down a corridor and all jump around normally from the floor, the constant horizontal positioned model looks stale and a bit odd for such agile creatures.
3. Server browser, "Refreshing.." button should simply say "refresh". "Refreshing.." implies it is constantly and actively dooing this without you clicking it.
Bout to be a few alien stuff aswell, but not much playtime invested in them as of late.
<!--quoteo(post=1985182:date=Sep 30 2012, 12:45 PM:name=StormApan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StormApan @ Sep 30 2012, 12:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985182"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Grenade launcher, graphics are all nice but the physics and animations are really off. When pulling the trigger there is like 0.5 second delay for the projectile to launch making it feel laggy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Grenades are server adjudicated in most games. Which means you will see the grenade only after a 2*ping + interp.
Most games try to cover this up by various fofo stuff. E.g. the server knows that it takes a player 400 ms to throw a grenade, so if the player has a 100 ms ping the server should spawn the grenade in 300 ms and other clients should see the throw animation sped up to compensate for the 100 ms that have already past. This gives you ping + interp. And then you obstruct the players screen with the throwing arm to make the grenade being spawned less noticable.
Although I guess something could be gained by cheating a little here even without a throwing animation. Suppose that the server rewound time by 2*ping + interp or 200 ms(whichever is smaller) and physically simulated the grenade. The grenade will then appear to spawn in mid air(up to 200 ms out). To cover this up, have the gl recoil a bit upward, punch the screen a bit to the right and throw out a smoke sprite, returning back to default position before the gun is ready to refire.
<!--quoteo(post=1985189:date=Sep 30 2012, 06:12 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Sep 30 2012, 06:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985189"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And then you obstruct the players screen with the throwing arm to make the grenade being spawned less noticable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh, that's a pretty neat sleight of hand trick.
The issue is the interpolation, it's set really high to make up for the currently terrible netcode optimization. That's why you get skulks that instantly kill you from 10 feet away and terrible hitregistry because both the tickrate and interp are too high to catch up with the RoF of rifles. Only 40-60% of your rifle shots register in perfect conditions, consistently. It should take only 10 shots (less than 2 seconds) to kill a skulk if you can aim, and kill 5 skulks maximum with one magazine. Currently neither is possible.
Comments
Negativity from us will provide our friends and the public with a bad impression of the game, it's time to suck up our disappointments and instead work on fixing them using mods (which are being enchanced in 221 to auto-download from server to client) to help this game reach a proper status, both in E-sport arenas and in social gaming contexts (Gorge craft comes to mind).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Despite that, it's nice to see 1.0 is being reached. It's not perfect, but it's good fun to play. After that the game will be refined further in terms of perf, features, maps and mods.
Maybe I'll try to crunch out a fun map for 1.0 in a couple of days.
Negativity from us will provide our friends and the public with a bad impression of the game, it's time to suck up our disappointments and instead work on fixing them using mods (which are being enchanced in 221 to auto-download from server to client) to help this game reach a proper status, both in E-sport arenas and in social gaming contexts (Gorge craft comes to mind).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
People should learn to get over their ego and be productive if they really want NS2 to succeed. You can complain as long as you want, but if you want to play this game for more than a few month, you should simply be nice and show patience. It isn't that way that the game isn't fun or anything. It is just not perfect to our high expectations.
There's a difference between being outright negative about a game and trolling the forum, or voicing meaningful criticism on things you want to see changed. You'll always see forums packed with both, and rarely with praise, which is not to say the game doesn't deserve praise. It's simply that there's only so many times you can praise a game.
FREE SENTRY GUNSSSS!!1111
safely cosmetic only to prevent game play damage... :)
Fear not. This game will evolve significantly over time.
Despite that, it's nice to see 1.0 is being reached. It's not perfect, but it's good fun to play. After that the game will be refined further in terms of perf, features, maps and mods.
Maybe I'll try to crunch out a fun map for 1.0 in a couple of days.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It actually means that custom crosshairs ARE okay. The server doesn't have any textures installed so he cannot do consistency checks on them. The problem with this is that obviously you can just paint all skulks pink.
1. everyone expect something else
2. some things may be just too much work to do till release
i personaly don't believe, that everything will be fixed, that was mentioned till now in this thread ...
i for myself would like to see performance at least doubled, tripled, or better quadrupled, cause im trying to run the game on a 2GHz Quad Core ...
but i really can't believe this is going to happen till 1.0
Here's to being a hopeful pessimist!
1) Babblers, he needs to be able to defend himself and 3 Hydra does not cut it.
2) Web on 3 hives or 2 hives and as an upgrade to shade.
"Yeah, we have... uhh... 16 gorges in our hive just trolling everyone."
But seriously, we need more performance tweaks and if this means a feature lockdown until this is accomplished, then why the hell not? I'd gladly trade features for a boost in performance so we can actually bite/shoot things and not turn the game experience into a slide show. Besides, there'll be more than enough things for new players to learn when playing NS2 for the first time, what matters most is that the game's performance is top notch - this matters to everyone, new or veteran, and I think it's a smart move for the devs and for the company.
Dude.. Seriously? How do you picture that animation.
:P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Screw climbing ladders, we need <a href="http://youtu.be/2ntboJ__c3E" target="_blank">flying onos</a> :)
Best of luck UWE, biggest challenge will probly be getting NS2, that looks worse than a lot of games, run as well as those games that look better.
Regarding consistency checks, with many community members ready to mod the game it may hinder it. If you leave servers without consistency checks there are bound to be hackers and exploiters eventually. How they deal with this will be interesting
The server checks the files <i>that are on the server</i>. Not the ones that are forced by UWE. If the server wants to run a mod, it runs the mod with the mod's own files. These files are downloaded by the client. The client may not change these files <i>after that.</i>
No problems with modding here. So what's left is custom <strike>HUDs</strike> crosshairs. They'll allow them - when the server admin doesn't want to restrict them.
Another problem may occur when you want to play with 200 DMG per rifle shot while the server allows only the standard value. Well, you'd be a cheater then so that's OK.
Or what do you mean?
EDIT: There should be also the possibility to let the server check what's floating around in the steam workshop, with a whitelist function. Maybe that'll be a good solution for custom HUDs and such.
This is most likely the thing I want to see next as much as I wanted to see Fade-swipe delay removed from Blink back in the days.
But it also applies to the Kharaa as well, most notably the Skulk.
1. Grenade launcher, graphics are all nice but the physics and animations are really off. When pulling the trigger there is like 0.5 second delay for the projectile to launch making it feel laggy. Also the constant horizontal position of the projectile as it bounces around is odd.
2. Lerk jumping models. They are fine when climbing roofs and walls, but when you see 3 or so skulks run down a corridor and all jump around normally from the floor, the constant horizontal positioned model looks stale and a bit odd for such agile creatures.
3. Server browser, "Refreshing.." button should simply say "refresh". "Refreshing.." implies it is constantly and actively dooing this without you clicking it.
Bout to be a few alien stuff aswell, but not much playtime invested in them as of late.
Grenades are server adjudicated in most games. Which means you will see the grenade only after a 2*ping + interp.
Most games try to cover this up by various fofo stuff. E.g. the server knows that it takes a player 400 ms to throw a grenade, so if the player has a 100 ms ping the server should spawn the grenade in 300 ms and other clients should see the throw animation sped up to compensate for the 100 ms that have already past. This gives you ping + interp. And then you obstruct the players screen with the throwing arm to make the grenade being spawned less noticable.
Although I guess something could be gained by cheating a little here even without a throwing animation. Suppose that the server rewound time by 2*ping + interp or 200 ms(whichever is smaller) and physically simulated the grenade. The grenade will then appear to spawn in mid air(up to 200 ms out). To cover this up, have the gl recoil a bit upward, punch the screen a bit to the right and throw out a smoke sprite, returning back to default position before the gun is ready to refire.
Heh, that's a pretty neat sleight of hand trick.