What kind of matchmaking will this game have?
Destrucity
Join Date: 2012-09-20 Member: 160138Members
Join Date: 2012-09-20 Member: 160138Members
Comments
There is no official UWE servers.
If it would sort by KDA it would should disreguard commanders and gorges to keep it fair. Alot more factors, playing styles, what hardware you are using. etc etc.
But if you want to play "better people" i surgest that you sign up for gathers or join a gaming clan.
I don't think it's possible to define "skill" in a way that is digestible for a computer. You cannot "measure" human behaviour in any way that makes sense.
Kills and score are arbitrary systems that only cover small parts of the game and people <b>will</b> abuse match making systems. Humans are somehow obsessed with scores and rankings. They will do everything they can to up their rank even if it doesn't make any sense and doesn't actually help their team win the game. Basing match making in Counter-Strike on kills is okay since that is pretty much the biggest part of the game, but how do you measure strategy, teamwork, positioning, commander support, healing/welding and building stuff, map control, etc.? It's just not possible.
Match making gets harder and harder the more players are on each team and the more complex the win conditions and winning tactics of the game are. You need an exponentially larger amount of games to be able to derive at least some sort of relative skill compared to a less complex game with a smaller amount of players.
1. Massive team stacking.
2. Massive rage quitting.
3. Massive animosity towards new players including flaming, ejecting commanders and kicking from servers.
Point two and three can be seen in LoL and will come down hard on the NS2 community as well (point 1 isn't really applicable to LoL). I don't understand how you can say that it works fine in LoL as it clearly does not.
I don't believe that Dghelneshi. The point of a match making rank isn't to be a perfect numerical value or ranking of skill. It just needs to be good enough to group similarly skilled players together.
In a game like ns2 you can't use win/loss because even if you are the best player in the world, if your team sucks then you will lose no matter what. One player can't win a game, but one player can lose the game for his whole team. If you have a bad com or no com, then of course you will lose through no fault of your own. This means that win/loss probably won't correspond much to an individual players ability.
I do believe however that kills/deaths can give you a good enough approximation of skill to use for match making.
Without fail all of the players who I consider good are always top fragging on public servers.
Of course, when they play gorge or com they won't be getting lots of frags but they also won't be dying very often (and losing elo points) either. Any player who can top frag with the LMG will be a decent gorge as well because the skill ceiling for the gorge is lower. I've not met anyone who is an amazing gorge but yet they can't shoot straight on marines or also play skulk equally well.
This won't give you a perfect ranking or tell you who is better than who, but it will give you a good enough grouping for matchmaking.
It would probably also be better to rank coms separately to make sure that every game has at least 2 people who play com.
Not much point in arguing about it though. The easiest way is just to test it. If ns2stats.org implemented some basic elo ranking for kill/deaths I guarantee all of the players from archeaa etc. would be top of the rankings pretty quickly (if every server was tracked!).
Kills and score are arbitrary systems that only cover small parts of the game and people <b>will</b> abuse match making systems. Humans are somehow obsessed with scores and rankings. They will do everything they can to up their rank even if it doesn't make any sense and doesn't actually help their team win the game. Basing match making in Counter-Strike on kills is okay since that is pretty much the biggest part of the game, but how do you measure strategy, teamwork, positioning, commander support, healing/welding and building stuff, map control, etc.? It's just not possible.
Match making gets harder and harder the more players are on each team and the more complex the win conditions and winning tactics of the game are. You need an exponentially larger amount of games to be able to derive at least some sort of relative skill compared to a less complex game with a smaller amount of players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course you can, that's the whole point of most games, to summarize all the skill of all players into a win or a loss. The difficulty for a proper rating system is to design it in a way to have a minimal impact on how people actually play the game. I think Blizzard has done it right; having a secret rating system that puts people into leagues. It doesn't have to be perfect, just better than the current system.
Also, I'm not sure what you would call massive, but there is/was plenty of team stacking, ragequiting, and anger towards new players in NS1 and starting in NS2. When you have a game where winning is dependent on the skills of people other than own (team-based games) and you don't do anything to ensure as evenly skilled sides as possible, you will get these problems whether or not you incorporate a rating system.
Of course, you can also just leave public games alone and incorporate it into a gather style system or have ranked and unranked servers.
I do think it would improve the game a lot though because it's no fun to play when one team has a much higher average skill than the other.
Don't worry about skill, there are only a few old school ns1 players still kicking around anyway. 99% of people are retarded/new/noob.
I have seen players win games before.
I once when on a server that only had about 10 people on it. Not one knew what they were doing because they were literally all new. These are special circumstances, but I the team I joined organized and we went from losing to winning just from a little coordination. All I did was get all the skulks to group up and attack as one. We then won.
In another game I was playing, I was the commander for the aliens. We were being hit on all ends and my team were losing the majority of all skirmishes, thus the game. Then an old school ns1 player, so they say, came on. This player played not even 10 minutes and we were winning significantly. Then they switched to the other team and played another 10 minutes till we were losing significantly. Then left. I was utterly shocked to be yo yo'd like that by one player.
I don't like the idea of a mandatory match making system. What about a mod that accesses ns2stats.org data and uses it to match teams. I like the the idea of a mod because it is voluntary for server admins, and then players don't have to play on those servers if they don't want to.
Thats a leader, organising a team to win the game, not one person winning the game by himself.
Thats a leader, organising a team to win the game, not one person winning the game by himself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I brought up myself getting the team organized, and winning. The team would not of won without me, I would not of won without the team. Maybe that did solidify his point. The second example I brought up was one player winning the game by him/herself. This player could take out the whole other team by themselves. This player did not communicate besides saying "I am going to go help the other team now." No other words.
I can understand the desire for a match making system because one player winning the game by themselves. It happened to me once. Once. Again, I do not think UWE should implement a match making system. If a server admin wants match making they can install a mod for it. The mod will be made if there is enough people wanting it. If the mod becomes popular, it will be used on most servers.
Good news everyone!
You can also make maybe some servers that ise match making so that newer players can get used to the game get a chance to comm without the rage quiting or mass ejecting.
Put all the people with under 24 hours in-game play in the same server! :)
You can also make maybe some servers that ise match making so that newer players can get used to the game get a chance to comm without the rage quiting or mass ejecting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gosh no. I do not want to be restricted to just a few servers based on my rank. What if they all had bad pings etc?
<!--quoteo(post=1996326:date=Oct 24 2012, 01:04 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Oct 24 2012, 01:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996326"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only fair way I can see this working is based on time-in-game.
Put all the people with under 24 hours in-game play in the same server! :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do not like the idea of any match making but if it was implemented that is probably the only way it can be dona Maybe not even by how many matches a person has won but how many matches they have played. That way the person has a higher chance of being skilled.