ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
<!--quoteo(post=1978981:date=Sep 17 2012, 01:57 PM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Sep 17 2012, 01:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978981"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually the freecam points towards the nearest player after switching, but the problem is that this process is interpolated and the position of the nearest player is determined at the start of the transition instead of being constantly updated during it, which usually results in the camera pointing towards a seemingly "random" direction. Even if this would be fixed, I would still make the caster extremely disoriented, so I'm probably going to bother Huze to disable it. :><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The idea of this feature is great and it would nicely in big rooms if it was updated during the zoom or if the zoom was faster, but in small rooms it is highly disorienting and doesn't really work very well.
Why is the zoom so slow btw? The combat is over before the insight has zoomed from topdown to first spec. Could the zoom be entirely disabled? Or is it disorienting without the zoom?
One of the biggest issues with missing action is also the fact that currently the minimap shwo the marines as black when they are engaged in combat and its super hard to see whats going on. Also I say again it is very hard sometimes to know what the cameraman has on his screen, most streams have some delay no matter what you do so even a non delay stream isnt going to help much.
on the topic of SMURFING.... Nxzl and Inv had said from the beginning that they would not have enough players to each submit a team because of the tight schedule, however every team captain was informed of who that team was comprised of and no one had issues with it, at least none said to me. All the teams played very well and this event was for fun anyway :)
i just did a replay of both casts of the final game 3 moment (simultaneous skulk power rush & eventual reslock). both caster teams mentioned the lone marine doing damage, but blind/zeikko did switch over to show some action. both teams were pretty slow to recognize the reslock.
What was amazing about that was the khamm did a double hive drop, maybe 2 seconds after the last harvester was taken down - causing the reslock. Could have recovered with a single drop.
Maybe insight needs something here to notify casters of at risk final harvester/extractor situations & maybe flag a reslock.
Do you think Khamm/Comms should be allowed to reslock themselves without any warning from the UI?
Casting will continue to improve over time. Just like the players the casters need practice too. I have a few suggestions on how they could improve but i will save that for another thread.
Yep. Casters definitely improves over time. I remember watching Tasteless and Artosis cast the first seasons of GSL and it was terrible compared to how they perform now. I still think feedback like this is good because then casters can focus on what viewers perceive them to be lacking. It's an evolving process.
at the moment we have found some serious insight changes that are needed... I say again though when you are casting it is easy to miss things and when you want to make sure you arent cutting your counterpart off it makes it hard to highlight other things. I am always open to suggestions, please hit me up on steam and we can chat.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
I would also be delighted to hear feedback about my casting and get hints how to improve. Feel free to write it here / make a new thread / send me an email to zeikko@teamarchaea.net or a steam message.
Some of the camera work criticism in this thread is very welcome. Thamks for the tips, I will try to get better for future streams. One of the challenges for doing these matches is that I am commentating while moving the camera. Most of the 'big guys' e.g. SC2 will have multiple dedicated camera operators. But there are benefits to our approach, e.g. John Madden mode.
With practice hopefully less action will be missed!
Would be cool if the casters were in an actual team so they would have something relevant to talk about instead the sugar on top of the donut. You would also get to know people, their habits and a bit about roles if you merc'ed sometimes or played a gather.
There's no high skill or activity requirement for competitive, its all about attitude and willingness to learn.
Both blind's crew and NS2HD casts are awesome, but if I have to choose one I'll watch blinds cause the casting is slightly more gameplay focused.
Great job everyone and enjoyable casting. I liked the tag-team of Hugh + Wasabi. I think one thing that might help in the future when using multiple casters is to utilize audio normalization / compression a bit more aggressively, since Hugh's screams of "deady bones!!" were often clipping and quite a bit louder than Wasabi's "OH. MY. GOD."'s.
<!--quoteo(post=1978981:date=Sep 17 2012, 06:57 AM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Sep 17 2012, 06:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978981"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually the freecam points towards the nearest player after switching, but the problem is that this process is interpolated and the position of the nearest player is determined at the start of the transition instead of being constantly updated during it, which usually results in the camera pointing towards a seemingly "random" direction. Even if this would be fixed, I would still make the caster extremely disoriented, so I'm probably going to bother Huze to disable it. :><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> IMO the camera should start at the ceiling pointing straight down and oriented like the top-down perspective, so it's a simple transition with the same rules every time. Far less disorienting for both the commentator and the viewer.
Edit: Just noticed this is the same idea you were responding to :P There definitely isn't any smart algorithm for the camera to point the right way automatically. Being able to click a player to spectate would be cool though(albeit hard for aliens).
I'd like to see that if you have a player selected and do the zoom it snaps to them in third person (or 1st person whenever that happens) and if you have no one selected it stays top down for a moment allowing the spectator to manually zoom it in as Zek suggested.
<!--quoteo(post=1978690:date=Sep 16 2012, 05:11 PM:name=Laosh'Ra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laosh'Ra @ Sep 16 2012, 05:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->might be a bit difficult concerning the massive amount of fast-paced footage, but it'd be nice to have indeed :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easy way to make a highlight reel: Program something to listen for volume spikes. Check surrounding footage to see if said spike was Hugh flipping out over an awesome move. Repeat :D
<!--quoteo(post=1978945:date=Sep 17 2012, 05:41 AM:name=Agiel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Agiel @ Sep 17 2012, 05:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Smurfing is generally frowned upon, but whether it counts as trolling or not is debatable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Smurfing in NS2 isn't really the same as smurfing in other games since your steam account is plainly visible to everyone in the game. To me, smurfing implies anonymity which you just don't have in NS2 unless you specifically buy a new account.
I too like Blinds and Ryne casting perspectives, but when we are on the main channel we have to try even harder to look it from a simpler perspective for the non players or noobs watching... Not to say that we cant give more in depth analysis and each caster has their strong suits, nor am I making excuses, just saying we have just as much fun doing this as you do watching it and always welcome constructive notes on what you would like to see and hear.
<!--quoteo(post=1978981:date=Sep 17 2012, 07:57 AM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Sep 17 2012, 07:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978981"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually the freecam points towards the nearest player after switching, but the problem is that this process is interpolated and the position of the nearest player is determined at the start of the transition instead of being constantly updated during it, which usually results in the camera pointing towards a seemingly "random" direction. Even if this would be fixed, I would still make the caster extremely disoriented, so I'm probably going to bother Huze to disable it. :><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree this isn't really working as well as I had hoped; I will probably remove it.
<!--quoteo(post=1979267:date=Sep 17 2012, 07:26 PM:name=Industry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Industry @ Sep 17 2012, 07:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979267"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to see that if you have a player selected and do the zoom it snaps to them in third person (or 1st person whenever that happens) and if you have no one selected it stays top down for a moment allowing the spectator to manually zoom it in as Zek suggested.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I want to do more with selecting players - especially when we get first person spectator. More on this in the future.
about the highlight reel and casters missing action.... im pretty sure i saw a welder kill on an onos. problem is i dont remember what match it was....
i know it was on the ns2hd/wasabi stream tho, and towards the middle/end, anyone else remember seeing that?
<!--quoteo(post=1979402:date=Sep 17 2012, 09:30 PM:name=Drummer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drummer @ Sep 17 2012, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->about the highlight reel and casters missing action.... im pretty sure i saw a welder kill on an onos. problem is i dont remember what match it was....
i know it was on the ns2hd/wasabi stream tho, and towards the middle/end, anyone else remember seeing that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1979607:date=Sep 18 2012, 11:26 AM:name=nSidia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nSidia @ Sep 18 2012, 11:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979607"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->do you mean the welder kill on the fade?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> possibly, if he was covering the exos then yeah, that must be it, loled so hard at that
Comments
Even if this would be fixed, I would still make the caster extremely disoriented, so I'm probably going to bother Huze to disable it. :><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The idea of this feature is great and it would nicely in big rooms if it was updated during the zoom or if the zoom was faster, but in small rooms it is highly disorienting and doesn't really work very well.
Why is the zoom so slow btw? The combat is over before the insight has zoomed from topdown to first spec. Could the zoom be entirely disabled? Or is it disorienting without the zoom?
on the topic of SMURFING.... Nxzl and Inv had said from the beginning that they would not have enough players to each submit a team because of the tight schedule, however every team captain was informed of who that team was comprised of and no one had issues with it, at least none said to me. All the teams played very well and this event was for fun anyway :)
What was amazing about that was the khamm did a double hive drop, maybe 2 seconds after the last harvester was taken down - causing the reslock. Could have recovered with a single drop.
Maybe insight needs something here to notify casters of at risk final harvester/extractor situations & maybe flag a reslock.
Do you think Khamm/Comms should be allowed to reslock themselves without any warning from the UI?
Thanks!
With practice hopefully less action will be missed!
There's no high skill or activity requirement for competitive, its all about attitude and willingness to learn.
Both blind's crew and NS2HD casts are awesome, but if I have to choose one I'll watch blinds cause the casting is slightly more gameplay focused.
zubat zubat
Great job everyone and enjoyable casting. I liked the tag-team of Hugh + Wasabi. I think one thing that might help in the future when using multiple casters is to utilize audio normalization / compression a bit more aggressively, since Hugh's screams of "deady bones!!" were often clipping and quite a bit louder than Wasabi's "OH. MY. GOD."'s.
zubat zubat
Even if this would be fixed, I would still make the caster extremely disoriented, so I'm probably going to bother Huze to disable it. :><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO the camera should start at the ceiling pointing straight down and oriented like the top-down perspective, so it's a simple transition with the same rules every time. Far less disorienting for both the commentator and the viewer.
Edit: Just noticed this is the same idea you were responding to :P There definitely isn't any smart algorithm for the camera to point the right way automatically. Being able to click a player to spectate would be cool though(albeit hard for aliens).
Easy way to make a highlight reel:
Program something to listen for volume spikes. Check surrounding footage to see if said spike was Hugh flipping out over an awesome move. Repeat :D
Smurfing in NS2 isn't really the same as smurfing in other games since your steam account is plainly visible to everyone in the game. To me, smurfing implies anonymity which you just don't have in NS2 unless you specifically buy a new account.
zubat zubat
Even if this would be fixed, I would still make the caster extremely disoriented, so I'm probably going to bother Huze to disable it. :><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree this isn't really working as well as I had hoped; I will probably remove it.
<!--quoteo(post=1979267:date=Sep 17 2012, 07:26 PM:name=Industry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Industry @ Sep 17 2012, 07:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979267"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to see that if you have a player selected and do the zoom it snaps to them in third person (or 1st person whenever that happens) and if you have no one selected it stays top down for a moment allowing the spectator to manually zoom it in as Zek suggested.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want to do more with selecting players - especially when we get first person spectator. More on this in the future.
i know it was on the ns2hd/wasabi stream tho, and towards the middle/end, anyone else remember seeing that?
i know it was on the ns2hd/wasabi stream tho, and towards the middle/end, anyone else remember seeing that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
do you mean the welder kill on the fade?
possibly, if he was covering the exos then yeah, that must be it, loled so hard at that