Reduce the GL spam

XaragothXaragoth Join Date: 2012-08-03 Member: 154720Members
in Ideas and Suggestions
Seriously. Try to bite the Exo? Well, there is at least 2 people spamming grenades, so you die instantly.

Either nerf the damage or make them hurt friendlies. It's hard enough as it is with Skulks in lategame.
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Comments

  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Members, NS2 Map Tester
    I think reducing the GL's player damage is a good change. It's sad how effective the GL is in these large pub games.

    Friendly fire doesn't work in NS2, though.
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  • XaragothXaragoth Join Date: 2012-08-03 Member: 154720Members
    edited September 2012
    Ye, right now it's insane. You try to bite the already insanely powerful Mechs to take them down and your entire Skulks group dies in the endless flow of grenades :[

    And reaching the Nade spammers becomes impossible due to Exos D:

    It's a endless circle of pain!
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  • KopikatKopikat Join Date: 2012-09-06 Member: 158170Members
    edited September 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1976543:date=Sep 12 2012, 03:18 PM:name=Xaragoth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xaragoth @ Sep 12 2012, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976543"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's hard enough as it is with Skulks in lategame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    0 res unit has difficulty fighting a 50-75 res unit supported by two units who have at least 25 res of gear each? Perish the thought.

    It's not like stock Marines have it any better. The LMG and handgun may as well shoot Marshmallows for all the good it does against the higher lifeforms.
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  • lssj_dragonlssj_dragon Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155124Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1976580:date=Sep 12 2012, 04:16 PM:name=Kopikat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kopikat @ Sep 12 2012, 04:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->0 res unit has difficulty fighting a 50-75 res unit supported by two units who have at least 25 res of gear each? Perish the thought.

    It's not like stock Marines have it any better. The LMG and handgun may as well shoot Marshmallows for all the good it does against the higher lifeforms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's a lack of team cooperation, 3 marines working together is better then 1.
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  • BitcrusherBitcrusher Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156628Members
    edited September 2012
    Onos have been patched and with them soaking the grenade hits, fades and gorges can defeat marines. GLs are most effective at range because of self damage but once a skulk gets close to the GLer, they have trouble dealing with the skulk unless they have jetpacks. Also you have to assume costs difference, in a recent video Charlie said that the game wasn't ment to be about hard counters and that fades should be able to be a bit stronger then a single marine because of cost investments.
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  • XaragothXaragoth Join Date: 2012-08-03 Member: 154720Members
    edited September 2012
    I think it's one of the big issues I really have with NS2. The ressource-based balance. If you don't have enough ress in late game for yourself, you will end up pretty frustrated, because you are getting shot to pieces all the time by people who have their high-ress stuff. It's a even bigger issue if you join a game that is progressed pretty far and only have your 20 ress. The comm-drops help, but most of the time there is no ress to do so, because there is a constant back and forth of destruction and things need to be rebuild.

    Basically UWE managed to make one of the biggest flaws found in MMO PvP into a key gameplay element, with all the downsides of it. Sometimes, that shocks me, when I see it on pubs. But when I see that it works fine in the 6 player pro games, I understand why they haven't come up with something else. I think it's a problem related to how many players you have. If you got 1 Commander, 3 Exos and like 4 guys with a GL, it just is INSANE. Compared to 1 Comm, maybe 1-2 Exos, 1 GL and 2 Shotguns.

    It's no fun playing if you can't fight back, because you don't have the better upgrade. I really feel that for public servers, it would be better to have a version where you are limited not by ressources, but by classes divided by the number of players. So you can have unlimited Skulks & Gorges / AR & Shotgun, but only a certain number of Flamethrower, GLs, Lerks and Fades. Onos and Exo maybe 1-2 depending on server size. Might just make the game much more enjoyable for the broad masses.



    Oh well, I found the solution: Skulk sprint around to their main, make a Gorge, Bilebomb the Powernode without anybody noticing and enjoy the show :P


    It's not impossible to break it, it's just really, really frustrating if you have to try and push through that wall of death. Especially on Mineshaft when Marines play turtle. But that's more a map layout fault than anything else.
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  • BitcrusherBitcrusher Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156628Members
    edited September 2012
    I think it is the focus on making the game skill and tactic based that makes it hard for comeback mechanics to happen. Comeback mechanics are a boon to these kinds of games as they feel unfair. It would be unfair that one side captures x amount of res or tech points are unable to gain an advantage from these investments. It isn't as if once there is a lead that there can't be a comeback through proper tactics or skills as this has been seen before, but I would personally hate something like X Factor, which was something that is in Marvel VS Capcom 3, or Blue Shells in Mario Kart.
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  • XaragothXaragoth Join Date: 2012-08-03 Member: 154720Members
    edited September 2012
    Oh god Blue Shells. Make them go away.

    But ye, it's heavy focus on 6v6 eSport teams we see is a huge boon to it. NS2 is the only game next to SC2 that I know of being actually fun to watch. Because you can always turn it around. That only happens with pro teams and proper communication most of the time. I don't know how many times I have tried to make a pub team do some crazy move to turn the game around, but they just mindlessly zerged at that one spot *sigh* Not to mention it's really hard to counter in a 10v10 when one side gains the upper hand. It's just a lot harder with double the numbers. I don't think the game is really made for it.


    It will probably all smooth out balance-wise in the end, but right now it's pretty annoying. Though the new Onos is really fun to use. Finally people are running from them again, even the Exos :P
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  • RMJRMJ Join Date: 2012-08-09 Member: 155190Members
    edited September 2012
    But why dont they punish players for unit skill less weapons. The main goal of any game that is competative multiplayer, is to avoid spam, you do not wanna rewards player for spamming and doing stuff that requires no skill.

    Why doesnt grenades blur marines vision or have long reload time or something.

    The main reason grenades was removed from Team fortress 2 was the exact same problem, requires no skill and the spam was ruining the game balance.


    I honestly think they need to take a good hard look at how marines work, they have to limit them like they have done with aliens evolution, aliens cant use all combination of evolution traits. There has to be something like this with marines. Maybe limit so only X people of X team size can go Grenade launcher or something.

    Marines weapons and tech is just way to open to abuse and imbalance compared to how aliens have been locked down.

    If grenads also blinded slighty or made the screen jump or whatever, that would discourage spam and only actually use it when you need it.

    Or again have it as support and grenade launcher only has very few ammo. that would limit spam, something just has to happen.

    Maybe they should consider making 2 modes, Pro as in for esport, and Normal for public servers. its a nightmare playing public its just not fun i gotta say. playing 6 v6 isnt fun either in my honest opinion, we played more people back in the Quake 1 days in multiplayer.
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  • RobustPenguinRobustPenguin Join Date: 2012-08-17 Member: 155719Members
    GLs, on their own are fine. Get up close to the GL and he suffers heavily, if the team defend him then teamwork is teamwork. However when they have jetpack and just jet away from any attacks, thats where the GL becomes ridiculous.
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  • TimMcTimMc Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Members
    edited September 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1976546:date=Sep 12 2012, 04:20 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Sep 12 2012, 04:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think reducing the GL's player damage is a good change. It's sad how effective the GL is in these large pub games.

    Friendly fire doesn't work in NS2, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Only mechanic I could support for GL would be:

    <b>If ally is in blast range, grenade does only 10% of damage to enemies. </b>

    Thus the GL goes back to being an anti-structure weapon, rather than just spamming at feet of friends.
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