Kharaa need a fortfeit/recycle
Mestaritonttu
Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
A vote, a recycle, a "self-consume" whatever - Marines have it, Kharaa need it. Simply for the sake of pub gameplay. When Kharaa are winning, they usually clear the map pretty quickly. But when marines are winning, it's phase->armory->obs->phase->armory->obs, just a really, really slow and secure walk to victory.
Yes, I'm aware that recycling goes against "having amazing and surprising victories". But marines have it. So should aliens.
Yes, I'm aware that recycling goes against "having amazing and surprising victories". But marines have it. So should aliens.
Comments
I don't support it, but it exists.
I don't support it, but it exists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
F4 doesn't work because it requires 100% of the team to resign. So just one player thinking it's more fun to build clog towers outside the map is enough to thwart that.
In my experience it works pretty well. All it takes is for someone with a mic to say "hey guys we obviously lost this one, lets just all F4 instead of wasting time." And I have yet to experience a troll who will not quit.
(wasnt really their fault, the commander view displaying the amount of res towers was borked in the pax build)
Its not so much 'troll' as just someone is a noob usually.
If voted out, in case of troll, a new khamm could go in and restart the egg spawn.
This would give rines the satisfaction of destroying the final hive in some cases instead of the aliens F4ing all the time
<!--quoteo(post=1972028:date=Sep 5 2012, 10:12 AM:name=KaptajnKLO)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KaptajnKLO @ Sep 5 2012, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972028"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In my experience it works pretty well. All it takes is for someone with a mic to say "hey guys we obviously lost this one, lets just all F4 instead of wasting time." And I have yet to experience a troll who will not quit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have quite frequently. I don't think they were all trolls, but mostly new players who don't know what they are doing. If more than 50% of the players on one side give up, the game should end immediately. NS2 would be well served to implement something more formal like a vote surrender command, rather than the poorly suited F4ing.
I actually like ND's method; Comm activates surrender vote and if 51% of the team says yes, they surrender.
I'm all for a great comeback, but half the time it just turns into a waiting game where aliens are good enough to defend up until marines get a3/w3, but not good enough to break out.
edit: it will also allow aliens to end the game before the beacon/exo rush that everyone wants to be a part of, but no one wants to be the victim of.
Cynical losers will just end up afking or f4ing either way.
For every 1 awesome comback I've experienced, there are 20 other times where I've been "why won't this just freaking end already."
For every 1 awesome comback I've experienced, there are 20 other times where I've been "why won't this just freaking end already."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
And, if you make the requirement 50-75%, and the vote succeeds, you wouldn't have made it anyway. All great comebacks are due to a bunch of people working together and rushing something. If the majority of the team has lost hope, 2-3 people aren't gonna pull off a comeback by themselves.
For every 1 awesome comback I've experienced, there are 20 other times where I've been "why won't this just freaking end already."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The 20 times where it doesn't end has more to do with endgame balance. The answer is not a surrender mechanic.
Yes ideally games should end quickly and a surrender mechanic is a cheap response.
As aliens you can end the game pretty quick, same with marines. However both sides, often more aliens, have a habit of spawn killing and ignoring structures for a frustratingly long time. Getting killed by 3 fades a dozen times before finally ending is annoying.
As alien commander, once people start that I blew out the cysts and unrooted the whips. As marine commander I just recycled the IPs. If the team cannot spawn into a cohesive unit then no point delaying. Sometimes commanders do this far too early though. "Oh no I lost second CC lets all quit"
<!--quoteo(post=1972215:date=Sep 5 2012, 05:23 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Sep 5 2012, 05:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972215"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, let's put in a surrender mechanic so any chance of an awesome comeback is flushed down the ###### by cynical losers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
those comebacks never happen, and they never have happened, unless players on the enemy team also got bored and left/stopped trying
if someone is demolishing you and in the process of winning the game, they should WIN the game at some point (or else the game is crap)...allowing players to surrender is the most obvious way to achieve this since THE MARINES CAN ALREADY DO IT and it's commonplace in competitive gaming (and UWE claims to want ns2 to "be an esport")
also, recycling has uses beyond forfeiting games that the aliens should have access to!
Part of this is as a fade you do CRAP damage to buildings, so the only way to ensure you'll be able to end it is to camp the IPs and do bad damage to them as you kill marines. Otherwise, slamming the CC as a fade with 2 working IPs behind you is kinda dumb.
The surrender option isn't sadly the best solution. Because it robs the winning team of the fun to finish the enemy. But I can't see any other way to prevent this boring already-lost-games.
The surrender option isn't sadly the best solution. Because it robs the winning team of the fun to finish the enemy. But I can't see any other way to prevent this boring already-lost-games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only thing I can think of is something like, if Kharaa had 2 hives, and lost one 10min into the game, they would have to have another hive up in, say, 5min or they would all receive a -50% debuff on HP and damage? I'm totally taking this out of my arse, but something like that, maybe? Gah. It might be impossible to map "hopeless situations" like that.
I don't like a surrender-vote option though - as you said, the winning team doesn't get to finish the game that way. But a recycle like function isn't that bad, it's alright fun to chase the remaining marines. Just think of the "find the last skulk" :3 (As the dead kharaa give marines tips on where to find him)
edit: and the aliens wouldn't spawn anymore obviously.
Surrendering is a valid and accepted mechanic in other games, such as SC1/2 and Chess. People regularly resign when they see that they've lost, opting not to play out the rest of a match they already know is over. A similar thing happens in NS2, but its plays out where several people on the losing side f4/quit, then teams get imbalanced, then someone on the losing side complains they are losing because of the team imbalance, rather than that they've already lost and didn't know it.
those comebacks never happen, and they never have happened, unless players on the enemy team also got bored and left/stopped trying
if someone is demolishing you and in the process of winning the game, they should WIN the game at some point (or else the game is crap)...allowing players to surrender is the most obvious way to achieve this since THE MARINES CAN ALREADY DO IT and it's commonplace in competitive gaming (and UWE claims to want ns2 to "be an esport")
also, recycling has uses beyond forfeiting games that the aliens should have access to!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been in games where we've come back and won after having no built com chairs. Just because it never happens to you doesn't mean it never happens.
<!--quoteo(post=1972955:date=Sep 6 2012, 01:33 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Sep 6 2012, 01:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1972955"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Surrendering is a valid and accepted mechanic in other games, such as SC1/2 and Chess. People regularly resign when they see that they've lost, opting not to play out the rest of a match they already know is over. A similar thing happens in NS2, but its plays out where several people on the losing side f4/quit, then teams get imbalanced, then someone on the losing side complains they are losing because of the team imbalance, rather than that they've already lost and didn't know it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't chess or SC, there is always a chance for a comeback in NS.
This isn't chess or SC, there is always a chance for a comeback in NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's always a chance for a comeback in Chess and SC. All you need is a stupid mistake from your opponent like moving his queen into the path of your knight or flying his command station over your base.