Competitive EU scene?

G1RG1R Join Date: 2012-08-23 Member: 156275Members
in Competitive Play
Hi,

is there somewhat a competitive scene for NS2 in europe? I mean...this game seems to be released soon and i don´t hear anything about it ..... ESL opened a section for it, but its dead ....

Somethings really holding NS2 back....

I´d really like to play it in an organized team ....but i can´t :(

Regards
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Comments

  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    There are three active European teams: Archaea, Duplex and Exertus.

    The reason why there aren't any more are probably a result of several factors:
    1. Beta/tiny active playerbase.
    2. Significant gameplay problems with competitive play.
    3. No tournaments.
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  • G1RG1R Join Date: 2012-08-23 Member: 156275Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1968915:date=Aug 30 2012, 09:20 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Aug 30 2012, 09:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968915"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are three active European teams: Archaea, Duplex and Exertus.

    The reason why there aren't any more are probably a result of several factors:
    1. Beta/tiny active playerbase.
    2. Significant gameplay problems with competitive play.
    3. No tournaments.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What gameplay problems? Care to elaborate? Im new to this game.... IMO the performance is a massive issue as well.....
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  • G1RG1R Join Date: 2012-08-23 Member: 156275Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1968919:date=Aug 30 2012, 09:38 AM:name=G1R)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (G1R @ Aug 30 2012, 09:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968919"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What gameplay problems? Care to elaborate? Im new to this game.... IMO the performance is a massive issue as well.....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    edit: and the price ... well SDK comes with it...well...maybe 5% of those future customers even care about the SDK ...
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  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    edited August 2012
    If I had to speculate, and Fana already mentioned a few of these:
    <ul><li>Small player-base (200-400 is not a lot, regardless of what the hype-machine wants you to believe)</li><li>Performance-problems for clients (a lot of hype-buildup to this patch with regards to physics-optimizations, but the actual %-increase during combat isn't all that impressive, certainly not what was needed)</li><li>Performance-problems for servers (I can recall when people asked when the tickrate-cap would disappear, but I haven't seen such a request as of late anymore, probably because people realised high-powered servers aren't even able to sustain a solid 30 ticks)</li><li>A myriad of problems with the gameplay-mechanics</li><li>Wonky animations (makes combat a bit, well, wonky)</li><li>Hit-reg is far from ideal (this ties in with animations\tickrate\client-performance I guess)</li></ul>

    [EDIT]
    Also, no anti-cheat of any kind, with a game that has its game-logic open-sourced. I don't think any of the current teams are really put off by this, but it can evolve into a very serious problem later on.
    [/EDIT]

    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=G1R)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (G1R)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->edit: and the price ... well SDK comes with it...well...maybe 5% of those future customers even care about the SDK ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I guess that could be true. A game with a proper SDK is worth its weight in gold to me, but could be overpriced for someone else who's just interested in some casual play.
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  • bLink`bLink` Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146506Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    This build 217 is not for competitive. It might be for advertisement of the exo's
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  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Probably better than 216 IMO, exo issue withheld obviously.
    Interestingly enough the EU scene is arguably more active than the NA scene..

    But yea not any form of anti-cheat is soon to be an issue, or atleast a basic script hash check.
    And while client side FPS and smoothness has improved there are recently introduced server issues that dont seem to be 'an issue', and I pretty much cannot get anyone to accept they exist...Let alone all the tickrate issues and bugs resulting from them (ive seen the server tickrate bug manifest itself client side, to the point where nothing could repair the game short of formatting said computer - every single other game working without issue).
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  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
    Its the first time in NS2 history that servers can handle a whole long game @ rockstable 30 ticks. Sure, these are no normal servers but you can see an huge improvement on the serverside.
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  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    Actually I tried NS2 for a bit again after the rediculous hype generated this last build, and sure enough the tickrate of the server I was on was swinging back and forth from 20 to 30. This was on an Ivy Bridge 4.something GHz, could've been 18-20 players, not sure. Anyway, rock-solid 30 is still not achieved anywhere I would dare speculate (excluding 6v6 games). Rock-solid means it doesn't get off that 30 EVER.

    Also, 30 ticks is actually really really poor. It's about as low as you can go before things start to turn bad, so calling it a milestone (and only on insane CPUs) literally weeks before release is worrisome to say the least.

    I also think I understand what xDragon means when he says server-issues. I have noticed some things working rather iffy lately, and I was wondering if the performance-optimizations had something to do with that. A build or 4 ago when they annouced some server-optimizations I saw this happening, and I had the odd feeling they may have sacrificed some things on the server-side in order to get them to run faster (well actually not an odd feeling, I think this was officially confirmed).
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  • G1RG1R Join Date: 2012-08-23 Member: 156275Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1969366:date=Aug 31 2012, 09:54 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Aug 31 2012, 09:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually I tried NS2 for a bit again after the rediculous hype generated this last build, and sure enough the tickrate of the server I was on was swinging back and forth from 20 to 30. This was on an Ivy Bridge 4.something GHz, could've been 18-20 players, not sure. Anyway, rock-solid 30 is still not achieved anywhere I would dare speculate (excluding 6v6 games). Rock-solid means it doesn't get off that 30 EVER.

    Also, 30 ticks is actually really really poor. It's about as low as you can go before things start to turn bad, so calling it a milestone (and only on insane CPUs) literally weeks before release is worrisome to say the least.

    I also think I understand what xDragon means when he says server-issues. I have noticed some things working rather iffy lately, and I was wondering if the performance-optimizations had something to do with that. A build or 4 ago when they annouced some server-optimizations I saw this happening, and I had the odd feeling they may have sacrificed some things on the server-side in order to get them to run faster (well actually not an odd feeling, I think this was officially confirmed).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah..i mean..i REALLY like this game A LOT ..... but that doesn´t matter if the performance is crap and people can´t play it properly..esp. a competitive game.
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  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Members, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=1969366:date=Aug 31 2012, 12:54 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Aug 31 2012, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually I tried NS2 for a bit again after the rediculous hype generated this last build, and sure enough the tickrate of the server I was on was swinging back and forth from 20 to 30. This was on an Ivy Bridge 4.something GHz, could've been 18-20 players, not sure. Anyway, rock-solid 30 is still not achieved anywhere I would dare speculate (excluding 6v6 games). Rock-solid means it doesn't get off that 30 EVER.

    Also, 30 ticks is actually really really poor. It's about as low as you can go before things start to turn bad, so calling it a milestone (and only on insane CPUs) literally weeks before release is worrisome to say the least.

    I also think I understand what xDragon means when he says server-issues. I have noticed some things working rather iffy lately, and I was wondering if the performance-optimizations had something to do with that. A build or 4 ago when they annouced some server-optimizations I saw this happening, and I had the odd feeling they may have sacrificed some things on the server-side in order to get them to run faster (well actually not an odd feeling, I think this was officially confirmed).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm watching quite a few servers run 20-24 players at a rock solid 30 ticks. Outside of what Dragon is talking about, the server performance has drastically increased this patch.
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  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Best indication of what im talking about is watching the actual update rate in net stats, and not the tickrate... With a tickrate over 20 the game shouldnt be dropping to <10 updates, which happens quite frequently. The update rate is hardly ever stable at 19-20 let alone 15-20, which arguably is a pretty important thing...
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  • playerplayer Join Date: 2010-09-12 Member: 73982Members
    edited August 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1969383:date=Aug 31 2012, 06:29 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Aug 31 2012, 06:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm watching quite a few servers run 20-24 players at a rock solid 30 ticks. Outside of what Dragon is talking about, the server performance has drastically increased this patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Aye performance for servers is better, but I would not call it rock-solid. Like I said it would mean that it doesn't ever move off 30, and the few servers I tried it did (however infrequently).

    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Best indication of what im talking about is watching the actual update rate in net stats, and not the tickrate... With a tickrate over 20 the game shouldnt be dropping to <10 updates, which happens quite frequently. The update rate is hardly ever stable at 19-20 let alone 15-20, which arguably is a pretty important thing...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes I've noticed that too, been like that for a while though. Clients are locked to 20 updates\sec are they not? Perhaps if the tickrate drops below a certain point the server cuts its losses and skips the read-out of networked-variables (and as such forego a gamestate-update) for that frame to save computing-time. A bit of a cheap way to keep up appearences of good server-performance if this is really the case.

    Perhaps the unit of measurement for server-performance should be changed, we've been clinging to tick-rates for quite a while now, but this seems like another variable to be weighed in.
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  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Members, NS2 Map Tester
    32 tick bug is still around though it doesn't seem as bad when it happens. The all-in 24p server is stuck at 32 ticks with an update frequency of ~16/s. The actual gameplay feels fine and normal.
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  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Once the tickrate bug occurs the game gets extremely wonky.. if you think thats normal and fine I honestly do not know what to tell you...

    The update rate dropping issue happens regardless of tickrates however, even on freshly restarted servers.
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  • eh?eh? Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Members
    A bugged tickrate of 28.4... or 31.16... doesn't always cause animation hitching right away, but I've never been on a 32 tick server where it wasn't immediately obvious I was on a 32 tick server.
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  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited August 2012
    I realize that, but go actually try the server I was talking about. When I was playing on it earlier it had a bugged, steady 32 tickrate and was playing fluidly with no noticeable difference from a standard 30 tick server.


    It's lagging balls now, though. Someone go restart that ######.
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  • DghelneshiDghelneshi Aims to surpass Fana in post edits. Join Date: 2011-11-01 Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    yeah, 32 tickrate only seems to limit the update rate to 16/s at first, as opposed to the usual 19-22. It's not as obvious as it used to be.
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