Crazy Idea: No Passive PRes

spellman23

<div class="IPBDescription">Return of RFK</div>As the title suggests, this is a crazy idea but just wanted to spitball it to the community. This is mostly as a result of thinking about the comm no longer having PRes costs.

What if you bring back Res-For-Kills (RFK) to generate PRes, and everything else costs TRes like it did in NS1. Or at least greatly hamper PRes generation and rely on RFK for the bulk of it.

<b>Benefits:</b>
* Stagger the personal player tech. No more massive Fade jump or Shotgun/JP tech jump.
* Removes no-PRes-on-death for Aliens
* Still provides flexibility of buying own equipment, but mostly for the better players who get kills
* Greater Comm interaction equipping their troops
* Still get scaling of economy based on players, but regular timescale of tech since it is tied to TRes.
* Creates incentive for tactics that involve denying RFK (xenocide)

<b>Drawbacks:</b>
* Increased reliance on Commander for equipment/lifeforms
* Have to rebalance lifeform costs so Khamm can drop them (huge discrete investments in a straight TRes translation)
* Minor rebalance of equipment costs for Marines, making individual equipment more expensive for PRes
* Lots of tweaking on PRes/TRes generation rates
* Increased effectiveness of good players who can get kills only and equip themselves, less on supporting players

Thoughts? Improvements? Other serious drawback I forgot about?

Darkomicron

I don't think this would work out at all. The best players will just be stronger and that leads to more kills which leads to more equipment etc. It's a positive loop that gets out of hand.
The personal res was introduced to change stuff from back in NS1, your idea somewhat tries to revert it. The personal res system works quite well right now. Except for the commanders which is being addressed afaik.

Typhon

Don't see this happening. The reason for pres was so that everyone, new and experienced players, could get the fun toys in the game. If pres only came from rfk then new players would never earn enough to get fun toys themselves, and like in ns1 comms won't drop equipment for new players, so they'd never get to use them.

rantology

Having no passive pres generation would cause problems. Having player kills be the only source of res I feel would make the game more combat-like as those who are doing well will do really well and those who struggle won't have any saving grace or alternate strategy whatsoever. People would be very reluctant to play the RTS-side of the game, like killing enemy structures.

I think it would also invalidate some more guerrilla-tactic and/or turtle-y playstyles and strategies (which should be valid strategies). In short it makes the game more deathmatch oriented and takes a lot away from the RTS aspect.

GORGEous

Too big of a change too late in the game. It simply can't happen at this stage and I don't think it would be much better at all. I'd much prefer a simple +1 pres-per-kill, scaled based on lifeforms or ground vs jp vs exo marine, RFK system.

KaptajnKLO

Yeah I can just imagine how much fun new/less than good players will have if UWE implemented this suggestion...


<!--quoteo(post=1964411:date=Aug 17 2012, 05:58 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Aug 17 2012, 05:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Too big of a change too late in the game. It simply can't happen at this stage and I don't think it would be much better at all. I'd much prefer a simple +1 pres-per-kill, scaled based on lifeforms or ground vs jp vs exo marine, RFK system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Now this is more reasonable.

Align

<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Phased to I&S.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

MiniH0wie

People would focus too much time/energy on killing just so they can upgrade instead of following comms orders to protect/defend and move forward.

Like others have mentioned, it would turn classic into more like combat mode.

spellman23

<!--quoteo(post=1964408:date=Aug 17 2012, 08:53 AM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Aug 17 2012, 08:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964408"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't see this happening. The reason for pres was so that everyone, new and experienced players, could get the fun toys in the game. If pres only came from rfk then new players would never earn enough to get fun toys themselves, and like in ns1 comms won't drop equipment for new players, so they'd never get to use them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--quoteo(post=1964410:date=Aug 17 2012, 08:57 AM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Aug 17 2012, 08:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964410"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having no passive pres generation would cause problems. Having player kills be the only source of res I feel would make the game more combat-like as those who are doing well will do really well and those who struggle won't have any saving grace or alternate strategy whatsoever. People would be very reluctant to play the RTS-side of the game, like killing enemy structures.

I think it would also invalidate some more guerrilla-tactic and/or turtle-y playstyles and strategies (which should be valid strategies). In short it makes the game more deathmatch oriented and takes a lot away from the RTS aspect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah, these are the biggest drawback.

I think the biggest problem is what rantology pointed out. The current system frees up players to rambo structures and invest in building up the map. Which provides a better element of the RTS aspect in NS2.


My original thought of tweaking it so it worked was to primarily have equipment/lifeforms dropped by the Comm, and those doing exceptionally well could also supplement by buying their own equipment. The positive feedback as mentioned by Darkomicron though would still be a major factor.

ChickenOfWar

No. Would exacerbate the already prominent team stacking issue.

SixtyWattMan

RFK was one of the worst aspects of NS1.

IeptBarakat

I'd rather see 'res for actions'. Something like the credits system in Tribes Ascend, where you can even get money while you repair structures.

Death_by_bullets

This will never happen.

That being said, I love the idea.

I think you should earn your keep. This encourages player development and allows the best players to be rewarded for their skill.

Price

I like Res reward for kills, it gave Ns1 very much dynamic.
A team which kills much, but dont have many rts, can change the game a lot or a team which defend so hard can research stuff to get better and again change the game.
NS2 needs more dynamic.

hakenspit

RFK in the NS1 form would break any hope of team work.

The only way I could see any Res for action occuring is if the res was awarded ~1 res for following comms orders (ie building a PG, taking an objective etc) but thats really overly complicating things and not really needed.
It could be a way to give incentive to following comms orders should that becomne a wide spread issue.

SixtyWattMan

<!--quoteo(post=1964865:date=Aug 19 2012, 01:22 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Aug 19 2012, 01:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1964865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like Res reward for kills, it gave Ns1 very much dynamic.
A team which kills much, but dont have many rts, can change the game a lot or a team which defend so hard can research stuff to get better and again change the game.
NS2 needs more dynamic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It led to marines turtling until they had enough for a full heavy rush.

spellman23

<!--quoteo(post=1965302:date=Aug 20 2012, 02:29 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Aug 20 2012, 02:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1965302"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It led to marines turtling until they had enough for a full heavy rush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

At which point their paper Heavies on Armor1/2 and only a few weapons get eaten by Onos. =p

IronHorse

You could have armor 3 exos in a turtle no problem? Arms lab in base, protected by the whole team?
Now if you needed multiple CCs to utilize the proto at all.. well.. then this issue is lessened. (still have recycling weapons and GL player damage spam)