Spark Editor Questions and Musings
MrRadicalEd
Turrent Master Join Date: 2004-08-13 Member: 30601Members
Turrent Master Join Date: 2004-08-13 Member: 30601Members
in Mapping
<div class="IPBDescription">I just started learning the editor</div>First, I'd like to commend all the current mappers and their efforts, because this editor is still rough around the edges when compared to VHE, but I can see how the job can still be done.
<b>Questions</b>...
<i>Can you have too many lights</i>? <!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->I find myself using a combination of non specular and specular lights to achieve my desired effects, and I wonder if there is a limit.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<i>I noticed when I duplicate faces or props, the original face or prop glows or stays highlighted till I reopen the map. Is this a bug or is there some way to deselect these cloned items</i>?
<i>What seems to be the quickest way to draw faces and position them in your map</i>? <!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->I'm so used to working in the X, Y, and Z planes of VHE, but SE seems to encourage working in the perspective view. I draw a face with the rectangle tool but unless it is attached to an existing vertex, the newly created face is way far away from my "working area".<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b>Musings</b>...
I enjoy the openness of the editor, but when it comes to quick manipulation of whole faces, I find things to be "clunky". It would be nice to have a focus on whole faces with "line handles" to stretch the face and "vertex handles" to scale and rotate all in one swoop rather than separate buttons for each action.
I used to map a lot for HL and NS and it is an absolute treat to get instant results(especially with lighting) in Spark!
<insert first attempt hallway><img src="http://i.imgur.com/F8Fbs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Questions</b>...
<i>Can you have too many lights</i>? <!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->I find myself using a combination of non specular and specular lights to achieve my desired effects, and I wonder if there is a limit.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<i>I noticed when I duplicate faces or props, the original face or prop glows or stays highlighted till I reopen the map. Is this a bug or is there some way to deselect these cloned items</i>?
<i>What seems to be the quickest way to draw faces and position them in your map</i>? <!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->I'm so used to working in the X, Y, and Z planes of VHE, but SE seems to encourage working in the perspective view. I draw a face with the rectangle tool but unless it is attached to an existing vertex, the newly created face is way far away from my "working area".<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b>Musings</b>...
I enjoy the openness of the editor, but when it comes to quick manipulation of whole faces, I find things to be "clunky". It would be nice to have a focus on whole faces with "line handles" to stretch the face and "vertex handles" to scale and rotate all in one swoop rather than separate buttons for each action.
I used to map a lot for HL and NS and it is an absolute treat to get instant results(especially with lighting) in Spark!
<insert first attempt hallway><img src="http://i.imgur.com/F8Fbs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Comments
<i>Can you have too many lights</i>? <!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->I find myself using a combination of non specular and specular lights to achieve my desired effects, and I wonder if there is a limit.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no limit, but lighting does decrease performance, so you should strive to use as little as possible to get the desired effect . However, my impression is that it takes quite a few lights before the performance hit becomes serious. If you open one of the official maps (tram, summit, mineshaft, docking) you can get an idea of how dense you can make the lighting.
<!--quoteo(post=1963987:date=Aug 16 2012, 09:34 AM:name=MrRadicalEd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrRadicalEd @ Aug 16 2012, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1963987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><i>I noticed when I duplicate faces or props, the original face or prop glows or stays highlighted till I reopen the map. Is this a bug or is there some way to deselect these cloned items</i>?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Usually selecting something else fixes it, but if not, its a bug and you usually have to reopen the map (if you dislike the effect).
<!--quoteo(post=1963987:date=Aug 16 2012, 09:34 AM:name=MrRadicalEd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrRadicalEd @ Aug 16 2012, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1963987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><i>What seems to be the quickest way to draw faces and position them in your map</i>? <!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->I'm so used to working in the X, Y, and Z planes of VHE, but SE seems to encourage working in the perspective view. I draw a face with the rectangle tool but unless it is attached to an existing vertex, the newly created face is way far away from my "working area".<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easiest way is the triangle method in perspective view imo. Basically, you keep making triangles in the face you want to create until its totally filled. Check out fmpone's tutorial (http://www.own3d.tv/FMPONE/video/348699) around the 9 min mark to see the different methods to make a face.
another thing, I noticed in the sample map that props make up for some of the outside geometry; unlike old quake based engines, where you needed solid brushes to create rooms.
So it is not needed to create a face THEN add the wall prop?
Nope. Spark has no concept of "leaks" in the same sense as Source etc. Functionally, there's no problem with a prop touching the void although your level will end up encased in occlusion geometry for performance reasons.
<b>Yes and no. I like a lot of lights, but performance can be tricky.</b>
<i>I noticed when I duplicate faces or props, the original face or prop glows or stays highlighted till I reopen the map. Is this a bug or is there some way to deselect these cloned items</i>?
<b>
No idea whats going on there. Sounds like a low-CPU memory thing</b>
<i>What seems to be the quickest way to draw faces and position them in your map</i>? <!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->I'm so used to working in the X, Y, and Z planes of VHE, but SE seems to encourage working in the perspective view. I draw a face with the rectangle tool but unless it is attached to an existing vertex, the newly created face is way far away from my "working area".<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b>All the views except for perspective are there for this purpose</b>
Musings..
I enjoy the openness of the editor, but when it comes to quick manipulation of whole faces, I find things to be "clunky". It would be nice to have a focus on whole faces with "line handles" to stretch the face and "vertex handles" to scale and rotate all in one swoop rather than separate buttons for each action.
<b>Its definitely a labor intensive editor, but once you understand it, it's fun to work with. Just challenging</b>
another thing, I noticed in the sample map that props make up for some of the outside geometry; unlike old quake based engines, where you needed solid brushes to create rooms.
So it is not needed to create a face THEN add the wall prop?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope, Spark has no concept of leaks :)
The downside is that normal geometry and props don't block visibility. Instead you more of less have to encase your map in geometry that you add to the OcclusionGeometry Group (not layer) that does the occlusion culling/viability blocking that Source geometry did.
I enjoy the openness of the editor, but when it comes to quick manipulation of whole faces, I find things to be "clunky". It would be nice to have a focus on whole faces with "line handles" to stretch the face and "vertex handles" to scale and rotate all in one swoop rather than separate buttons for each action.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, with clever keyboard shortcuts you can improve your performance significantly.
I've got mine inspired by Maya:
QWERT for Select, Move, Rotate, Scale etc..
1234 for Line, Rectangle, Circle etc..
And its super fast. Create mappings that suit your style.
Also great to have one more ns1 mappers on board! ;)
This is a picture of the problem I'm getting when I Shift+Move an object to duplicate. All props get highlighted no mater where they are in the map when I drag+shift.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/UDKvO.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This is a picture of the problem I'm getting when I Shift+Move an object to duplicate. All props get highlighted no mater where they are in the map when I drag+shift.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/UDKvO.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a bug not use duplicate, use copy paste.
It happens for a while now... :(
CTRL+D I think, I found that by accident and cursed the day I found it. Bloody incomplete/buggy features :P
Has any NS2 fan learned to program tools yet so they can fix these for us? I thought we had a great active modding community... lol :)