Jetpacks
Skuggan
Join Date: 2010-03-19 Member: 71017Members
Join Date: 2010-03-19 Member: 71017Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Dont nerf their movement</div>I have seen alot of whine about jet packs. Mostly from new players I guess but I have also heard Hugh talk about them needing a nerf.
This concerns me because I think the feel to the jetpack is great at the moment(remember the old handicaped jetpack?).
If the mobility of the jetpacks gets nerf the skill ceiling gets lowered and thats not a way to go for a game who wants to be an e-sport.
Its not that hard to kill jetpacks with tier2 aliens at the moment.
My suggestions to balance them out instead of making their movement worse is to raise the pres cost to 15-20, and make lerk spikes have a better range so you have a tier 1 counter to jetpacks.
This concerns me because I think the feel to the jetpack is great at the moment(remember the old handicaped jetpack?).
If the mobility of the jetpacks gets nerf the skill ceiling gets lowered and thats not a way to go for a game who wants to be an e-sport.
Its not that hard to kill jetpacks with tier2 aliens at the moment.
My suggestions to balance them out instead of making their movement worse is to raise the pres cost to 15-20, and make lerk spikes have a better range so you have a tier 1 counter to jetpacks.
Comments
so you can't really do the dawn of war leap frog thing to dodge effectively, and they don't make you travel much faster either. they aren't as fun as blink or lerk flight or even skulk leap. its like one of those 3 wheeled cars without any torque.
they should be made better, and then also have a better counter to them.
And then i read the o.p.
Without leap and blink though... impossibru!
Raising the costs to 15pres sounds good to me.
Most frustrating is it without leap as skulk. You run around and they just keep flying away. You can do nothing and this feels very frustrating. I understand, that jet packs vs. hive1-aliens should have a huge advantage. But right now they need nearly no skill in this situation and get an unbelievable advantage.
Even with leap or spikes, I had several jet pack encounters that could just kill a hive before I could kill them. While this may only be my crappy aim, it just feels wrong, that it is so easy to be successful with jet packs, while aliens struggle to get it down. To the point where an early jet pack rush can kill the second hive (=leap + blink gone) before the aliens can kill the attacking marines and literally end the game with this move. (Have seen this now a few times.)
It just feels cheap. Jet packs should need a minimum amount of skill to be effective with. This is just not the case right now.
Just to be clear: I don't want to say, that they should be nerfed until they are no fun at all. It should just require more skill to use them to such an advantageous degree. I also haven't the right answer how to tweak them. At least the cost could go up. 15 pres sounds more reasonable. Another idea could be a mechanic that the jp recharges slower the less fuel it has. Skillful users should be able to nearly constantly fly with them, without touching the ground. But if you make a mistake (and this happens fast in a fight), you should be punished by going down on the ground for longer as it is now.
The downside to a jetpack is the loss of accuracy. The upside to a grenade launcher is that accuracy isn't required. Combine them, and you get something that is simply too easy to use and too damn powerful.
The difference is the economic interaction. In NS1 you could drop your team jetpacks once, and only once. When you killed a jetpacker, you really made a difference, and it was a big deal. Now they just keep coming back, over and over again.
Also, giving the fade a little more momentum speed after exiting blink would help immensely with catching jetpacks in the cieling.
Tapping the blink, for use of the momentum, is not encouraged enough due to the low blink cost and weak momentum.
So raise blink cost and raise the speed after exiting blink.
If you manage kill a jp with Flamethrower, another jp can pick up this Flamethrower which makes defending of last hive most pointless and frustrating experience.
so you can't really do the dawn of war leap frog thing to dodge effectively, and they don't make you travel much faster either. they aren't as fun as blink or lerk flight or even skulk leap. its like one of those 3 wheeled cars without any torque.
they should be made better, and then also have a better counter to them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 I agree totaly.
I personaly think they could be better. But for balance reasons I think they should should Stay the same, Not to be Nerfed and not gain a BUFF.
have fun keeping them on 2-3 rt's when they have jp's and shotties...which isn't the most difficult thing to do
Either jetpack goes up for 25-30 pres or Onos goes down in cost.
Either jetpack goes up for 25-30 pres or Onos goes down in cost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so if you kill that marine quickly, he loses 30 res, even at 5 rt's, it take a good deal of time to regen 30 res
The only time you have to worry about rines having near infinite supply of JP's is if they forgo all other gear upgrades before hand. Normally SG's or mines come out early game and rines end up wasting a good chunk of their pres there.
In the later case, I find I have the res for 2 jp's and maybe 1 weapon before i'm p-res tapped. That doesn't feel like it's OP to me considering the lifetime of a marine on the field is much less than that of an alien.
Either way, I don't think jp balance should even be considered further until we see exosuit and (hopefully) an onos buff hit the game.
Says the guys who continously murders the entire marine team as Fade even when JPs are out. :P
;)
Make the cost higher, 15-20 like others have said...make losing one a lot more impactful. The energy usage may also need to be increased.
However, all this may be completely unnecessary and all that may be needed are better ways of dealing with one as an alien. Improved blink motions could certainly help.
put some props so that skulks can boost off to get to the necessary height to combat jp's. or let them double leap.
skulks have been able to double leap for several patches now... :|
put some props so that skulks can boost off to get to the necessary height to combat jp's. or let them double leap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is actually a very legitimate concern.
Just like in NS1, certain rooms heavily favor certain play styles and roles. JPs absolutely murder things if they have a large enough room to maneuver. And the mega-room in NS2 that tend to dominate the map unlike the corridors in NS1 don't help.
Leaping Skulks in NS1 had a decent chance of picking off a JP if they weren't careful. Fades and Lerks were even better at it. And Gorge web really ruined their days. But the bigger the room the bigger the JP's advantage was to just displace and dodge everything jumping at it.
from purely a resource perspective you have to buy an Armory > Advanced Armory > 2nd Comm Chair > Proto Lab > Research Jetpacks
thats a lot more than 10 res.....
thats not counting the time and other res spent in holding the 2nd techpoint.
from purely a resource perspective you have to buy an Armory > Advanced Armory > 2nd Comm Chair > Proto Lab > Research Jetpacks
thats a lot more than 10 res.....
thats not counting the time and other res spent in holding the 2nd techpoint.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1963681:date=Aug 15 2012, 03:17 PM:name=supsu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (supsu @ Aug 15 2012, 03:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1963681"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they meant pres cost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And thus the weirdness of dissociating TRes and PRes.
In NS1 they were one and the same, and so the high tech cost meant a serious investment and then continual payments to keep your team equipped.
In NS2 sure that TRes could have been used elsewhere, but everyone's PRes pool can now be utilized to suddenly get a nice continual boost in efficiency on each player.