Anti-Cheat
Davil
Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Really need it</div>I'm not typically the type to jump to extremes like saying someone is using an aimbot, but today i saw two people who definately were. Typically a name like "c" is a dead giveaway for someone who doesn't give a crap too. But it really just ruined the game completely for me. I was having fun up until the point where it was impossible to get out of the hive because as soon as I left the room I was being shot by 1 of 2 guys who just stood at the end of a hallway and never missed. So I'm really hoping there is going to be anti-cheat involved soon.
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Comments
+1
They also forget that people might have better computers than them.
Well we don't know how the game went down. If the rines kept them down to one hive, they were stuck at tier 1 while the rines were rolling around in upgrades. If this be the case it shouldn't surprise him at all that he was getting pounded. Just because you're being outplayed doesn't mean your opponent is hacking.
I'm not saying there aren't people who cheat, but i would say it is a very very small minority.
Of course the opponent is not necessarily hacking. I am not speaking about this particular match. Players may cheat, however, and anti-cheat would be a nice addition to the game. I can't identify any suspected cheaters and I doubt if anybody I've played with has been hacking. But the lack of anti-cheat makes it very easy for those who want to hack to do so without being identified. As this game gets more popular, this is an issue that should, and I believe will, be addressed.
They also forget that people might have better computers than them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
When you are playing a game at sub 10 fps, and getting position updates maybe once a second if you are lucky, fades who are blinking around knocking jetpacks out of the sky really do look like hackers.
All that being said, here is how the game went. I don't remember the name of the map but it's the one with ball courts and the locker room. We had the top center hive which I think is named generator with maintenance just to the left of it. Essentially when you left maintenance and headed towards ball courts as soon as you came into line of sight of the guy standing in the SAME spot the ENTIRE GAME you were shot without a single miss. It's not normal for someone to have perfect reflexes where EVERY SINGLE TIME you are in line of sight the gun goes off without a pause. If you understand how the human thought cycle works (and ask anyone familiar with combat tactics) you know what the OODA cycle is. It stands for Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. These 4 things have to be done whenever you take an action. This guy skipped straight to act and that isn't a typical human response. My entire team, along with the entire team he was on, agreed that the guys were cheating. I've been playing FPS's for a much longer time than probably the vast majority of you so stop bashing me like I'm ignorant.
Who was the other one? =D
When you are playing a game at sub 10 fps, and getting position updates maybe once a second if you are lucky, fades who are blinking around knocking jetpacks out of the sky really do look like hackers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me be perfectly clear with you
i7 2600k 3.4ghz OC'ed to 3.8Ghz
Asus P8Z68V-Pro Motherboard
16GB DDR3 ram at 1600mhz in dual channel
320gb SD HDD
2x Nvidia GTX 580 in SLI
There is only a very slim chance that very many of you have a better set-up than me. And before you call me a liar here's your proof:
<img src="http://www.davidsirritation.com/compfront.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.davidsirritation.com/compside.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Who was the other one? =D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ject something or other, were you on the marine side? Cause if you played on the alien side at all you'd have noticed it.
Based on what little information you put in the OP, what were we suppose to assume? You 2nd post actually gives some details, that would have been useful to put in your 1st post if you didn't want people to jump to the conclusion that you were a newbie. Yet you're upset about this?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you understand how the human thought cycle works (and ask anyone familiar with combat tactics) you know what the OODA cycle is. It stands for Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. These 4 things have to be done whenever you take an action. This guy skipped straight to act and that isn't a typical human response.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, really? Are you suggesting you have insight into this person's brain and how they were actually processing the situation? I'm sure you're a brilliant military-grade tactician in real life, but there are a few more factors at play when you're online. People are perfectly able to react to something in less than 500ms. If you are just staring down a hallway, it's pretty damn easy to quickly react to on-coming targets. Do you have evidence that this person reacted quicker than a human can possibly act at? I think it's more likely you were too caught up in the moment to get an accurate sense of how quickly this person was really reacting.
Or maybe they were actually cheating. Who knows? If the person was doing 180 spins and taking out 3 skulks at once, I might suspect foul play.
Fact is, the game is still in Beta and I'm not even sure VAC has been activated on the game yet. Regardless there is no avoiding cheaters in online PC games. I'm sure UWE will be doing everything possible to curb cheaters, but you can only do so much.
i7 2600k 3.4ghz OC'ed to 3.8Ghz
Asus P8Z68V-Pro Motherboard
16GB DDR3 ram at 1600mhz in dual channel
320gb SD HDD
2x Nvidia GTX 580 in crossfire
There is only a very slim chance that very many of you have a better set-up than me. And before you call me a liar here's your proof:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->First of all Davil, could you tone down the "being offended" bit? The posts in here are quite level headed and you seem to be over reacting from what I can see.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
The thing is, anecdotal proof is not proof to call people cheaters. Spark is indeed in serious need of FPS demo recording, especially if it wants to be taken serious as an E-sport down the line. And anti-cheat is a must as well, I say the sooner the better. But there are more pressing matters at hand still, implementing anti cheat measures should be easy enough (consistency checks for one is a good start)
Also I know there are players in NS2 land on similar rigs clocked at 4.5-4.8Ghz ;)
An accomplished competitive player.
The thing is, anecdotal proof is not proof to call people cheaters. Spark is indeed in serious need of FPS demo recording, especially if it wants to be taken serious as an E-sport down the line. And anti-cheat is a must as well, I say the sooner the better. But there are more pressing matters at hand still, implementing anti cheat measures should be easy enough (consistency checks for one is a good start)
Also I know there are players in NS2 land on similar rigs clocked at 4.5-4.8Ghz ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much. There are several things that make me laugh at this whole situation and just how experienced this guy might be with online gaming:
<ol type='1'><li>Getting so upset over one encounter with a possible cheater. Like it's never happened to him before in any game.</li><li>Reacting hyper offended to relatively polite replies. </li><li>Going to the trouble of posting full specs and over-sized pictures of his expensive rig. "Hey guys, look at me!"</li><li>Trying to bring psychology and brain-function into the argument.</li></ol>
Why???? The whole thing screams over-compensating to me.
not for this guy, I mean in general
not for this guy, I mean in general<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They had it in Insight minus the crosshair, but it was removed. I hope they find a way to add it back.
not for this guy, I mean in general<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do believe they've got a basic version of this in the spectator mod. One of Hugh's videos had it.
EDIT: Oh, VoodooHex is saying it was removed. :<
I think I remember that name. I played 3 rounds first as marine, then alien and lastly marines again. I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary or suspicious. I play as MrKennyKRH in NS2 btw.
Also you should really not assume they are cheating just cause they are really good. These people have just played this game much more than the average guy and they know every little nook and cranny of the maps and where skulks are most likely hiding and how to place themselves in rooms and at the end of hallways and just mow down every skulk that they see. If you're an average player then you need overwhelming numbers to take them down or you need to have a great player on your team too. The difference in skill between the competitive guys and the average guy is just THAT high.
And its also frustrating for the experienced players sometimes to lose a game cause people running around like "brainless idiots". Sorry that i have to say that in this way.
This bring me to an mod-idea we discussed a while ago in TS:
Im sure its possible to read the playtime via an mod. (the global time stored @ steam)
Lets make two types of servers with this mod. New players with less than 20 hrs gameplay for axample can play on "learning-servers", the players with more than 20 hrs gameplay cannot join these servers.
If one has more than 20 hrs, he can join the "advanced-servers".
And its also frustrating for the experienced players sometimes to lose a game cause people running around like "brainless idiots". Sorry that i have to say that in this way.
This bring me to an mod-idea we discussed a while ago in TS:
Im sure its possible to read the playtime via an mod. (the global time stored @ steam)
Lets make two types of servers with this mod. New players with less than 20 hrs gameplay for axample can play on "learning-servers", the players with more than 20 hrs gameplay cannot join these servers.
If one has more than 20 hrs, he can join the "advanced-servers".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Awe come on now, how am I suppose to sit and snipe the noobs coming down the hallway?
Based on what little information you put in the OP, what were we suppose to assume? You 2nd post actually gives some details, that would have been useful to put in your 1st post if you didn't want people to jump to the conclusion that you were a newbie. Yet you're upset about this?
Wow, really? Are you suggesting you have insight into this person's brain and how they were actually processing the situation? I'm sure you're a brilliant military-grade tactician in real life, but there are a few more factors at play when you're online. People are perfectly able to react to something in less than 500ms. If you are just staring down a hallway, it's pretty damn easy to quickly react to on-coming targets. Do you have evidence that this person reacted quicker than a human can possibly act at? I think it's more likely you were too caught up in the moment to get an accurate sense of how quickly this person was really reacting.
Or maybe they were actually cheating. Who knows? If the person was doing 180 spins and taking out 3 skulks at once, I might suspect foul play.
Fact is, the game is still in Beta and I'm not even sure VAC has been activated on the game yet. Regardless there is no avoiding cheaters in online PC games. I'm sure UWE will be doing everything possible to curb cheaters, but you can only do so much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I am a "military-grade tactician" as you put it, I have pictures for that too. And yes I can say how fast reaction time is, on average it's about 200-220ms. But that's reaction time based on just reaction, not based on thought. Unless his plan was to shoot as soon as something happened you have to 1:Identify the Object, 2: Orient yourself and your gun to the object, 3: Decide if it's what you want to shoot, and 4: Act upon your decision. He skipped the first 3 steps as if it was done for him automatically. It takes more than 200ms or even 500ms to understand what you see then actually put your gun on target while simultaneously tracking that target across a room without a single error. THAT ISN'T POSSIBLE.
All that being said, here is how the game went. I don't remember the name of the map but it's the one with ball courts and the locker room. We had the top center hive which I think is named generator with maintenance just to the left of it. Essentially when you left maintenance and headed towards ball courts as soon as you came into line of sight of the guy standing in the SAME spot the ENTIRE GAME you were shot without a single miss. It's not normal for someone to have perfect reflexes where EVERY SINGLE TIME you are in line of sight the gun goes off without a pause. If you understand how the human thought cycle works (and ask anyone familiar with combat tactics) you know what the OODA cycle is. It stands for Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. These 4 things have to be done whenever you take an action. This guy skipped straight to act and that isn't a typical human response. My entire team, along with the entire team he was on, agreed that the guys were cheating. I've been playing FPS's for a much longer time than probably the vast majority of you so stop bashing me like I'm ignorant.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just a note, I think you may want to read these:<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/community" target="_blank">Community Guidelines</a>. They are small and simple so as you put it 'check your attitude' please. There is no reason to be hostile, Thank you
1. Reaction times of top competitive players are certainly not average.
2. You stated that he was standing still the whole time looking down a hallway. Of course he doesn't need to "identify the object" or "orient himself". He just waits until another alien comes around the corner and shoots instantly. This is not real life where you could have random objects flying around the corner or you have to decide whether this is an enemy or a friendly soldier. In this situation, you just stay put and hit the fire button the instant you see anything moving on your screen.
3. You obviously have no idea what good players (especially pro players) are capable of. A good example of how incredibly good people can be at tracking targets would be this: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U553p021pRE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U553p021pRE</a>
An example for reaction time could possibly be this: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPbf6ToctVw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPbf6ToctVw</a> (e.g. 4:30-4:35)
Man, sounds like you need to apply to be UWE's in-house tactician and anti-cheat expert. But I'm sure that would take you away from your 6-figure salary as a military contractor, right?