I miss the Onos
TheIcarusKid
Join Date: 2012-03-23 Member: 149258Members
Join Date: 2012-03-23 Member: 149258Members
It's been a few builds now where the mighty Onos is rarely seen at all, even with a 4-hive late game. They're slow, vulnerable, and very easily die to a handful of upgraded LMGs. Fades/Lerks/Gorges working together do a much better job of basecracking these days.
Will the advent of the Minigun come with a boost to Onos health? I miss my favorite spacerhinogorilla and want to see him come back!
Will the advent of the Minigun come with a boost to Onos health? I miss my favorite spacerhinogorilla and want to see him come back!
Comments
I often don't see Onos being supported by the team though, they need healspray and umbra to keep them in the game for longer, skulks to run interference and a fade (or the lerk) to pick off pursuing jetpackers. Mostly what I see is an Onos running at a bunch of marines down a corridor and completely over-extending.
Definitely in need of a buff, hopefully a speed increase / health increase for 217?
Could we remove the slowdown after Charge? That always seemed like an unnecessarily harsh penalty on a lifeform that is already so slow. Or perhaps a boost to non-Carapace armor so a Regen Onos is a viable choice.
He could use a minor health buff imo though since the p-res rate has been slowed down and you won't see them till generally mid/late game and you will only see stomp on 3hive he wont be so OP like he was before. Shotties just destroy him in seconds atm.
this would be a really fun gameplay mechanic, marines trying to flank you etc
The onos is for killing buildings, and with team support it is very good at it. An onos with gorge support can take out a power node or other key structure pretty quickly.
What an onos *can not* do is take on more then 3 marines unsupported, or a single jp marine unsupported if he is in a big room. The lifeform isn't a be all trump card, and it shouldn't be. it is instead purpose built for breaking marine entrenchments. No single lifeform should be able to do this by itself, but when combine in a team effort, the onos is very powerful. When playing as an onos your job should be to stomp non-jp marines, and focus down either the phase gate in a forward base, or the power node / arms lab in marine start. Let your team mates deal with marines. Your other job is to be a big scary threat / bullet sponge so your team mates can clean up.
The onos is more powerful as a threat, it forces the marines to respond and focus fire. This needs to be leveraged by the rest of the team.
think of the onos like an arc train. A very powerful tool for your team to break an entrenched position. Would you send ARCs in with out support and expect them to do well?
While I agree, the onos probably needs some buffing, he doesn't need much and he is far from useless.
This is just going by my observations in pub games over the last few builds. They used to be seen in every game that wasn't very short, now half of alien victories occur without hatching a single Onos. It's just not worth the res.
A big issue is running away - if you're wounded, a single LMG marine can chase you down and kill you rather easily. If you're unlucky enough to clip a wall during charge, then you're toast.
EDIT: Ah, didn't know they removed the slowdown after charge. Cheers!
Yes I think you hit the nail on the head there... why bother with Onos when you can get a couple of gorges bilebombing with lerks and fades to shield them?
On a side note, bilebomb is such a hard counter to turrets that they remain practically useless unless aliens only have 1 hive. Not sure if that's a good thing or not, but it's reality. I personally like the current approach of high damage but low HP turrets, but still have a hard time ever justifying building a robo as comm.
Coordination. That's the only thing stopping public alien teams from steam rolling marines turtled in base.
Yup.
Games that don't end where it's 3 Hives to 1 CC is pure lack of teamwork.
Games that don't end where it's 3 Hives to 1 CC is pure lack of teamwork.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The last one was just earlier today. We had a 3 onos rush, a umbaing lerk, a gorge bile bombing, and the rest of the team defending the forward pushing marines. We got gernaded/shotguned down before we took the cc. We ended up winning that game because we tried it again while the whole team rushed one of our hives. It was a pub game.
does this mean they also removed the damage-reduction which the onos gained during the slow-down?
anyway, in my oppinion many people play the onos as a meatgrinder, although it is actually supposed to be a tank (preventing marines from killing his nearby allies) which is also very effective at taking down extractors and outposts. attacking the main base (even with several oni) should require additional alien classes to finish off the marines which are either stomped to the ground, running for their lives or focus-fireing you.
that said, i agree that 75 is a quite a lot considering his current abilities. the res-timing is currently quite essential and not only because of jetpacks: weapon upgrades can have a much more dramatic effect on the onos than on other life-forms. the hide-armor blocks 60% rifle-damage against weapons0 but only 30% against weapons3. so making the onos a bit more accessable might already solve this issue, although i'd still prefer it to be a lategame lifeform instead (feels less unfair and more awesome).
well, how about adding a tier2 ability as a general buff? something simple (=easy to implement) which will make him a bit more durable somehow? or maybe a buff for his nearby allies, e.g. boosting his allies adrenaline by using up his own in a roar?
We had 3 hives and fully upgrades and couldn't do anything against marines turtling. Onos were killing within seconds.........
Perhaps devour should be tier 2 research? i know the devs are very against taking control away from the player, but isnt that what vortex is? and the spider (as yet to be released also) sounds like webs, which do the same thing. I'm afraid that when exos come out, the heavy unit vs. heavy unit gameplay will be intensely marine sided unless the Onos gets some luvin'
The Onos <b>speed </b>and <b>movement </b>will probably change once more marine tech comes out. UWE needs to hurry up and get everything released so things can be balanced for v1.0. The only reason Onos are slow right now (I think) is probably because only LMG's and shotguns are around to counter them. Without handicapping the Onos, marines would just get their bases destroyed. Once more marine abilities come out, HMG - Exo suit, we can see a return to a more fun onos. Part of the reason I love NS1 is that mobile Onos. I don't play cr4ppy slow NS2 onos just because anythig can slow you down which is stupid and not fun.
And the heavy emphasis on gorge/onos play needs to be reduced a bit. Sometimes in pubs you just become absolutely useless as an Onos because there are no smart gorges. Or no gorges at all! And where gorges are busy healing 1 Onos, they are supporting only 1 lifeform. Gorge just dies instantly. NOT a team game UWE. As opposed to NS1 where one gorge could stay back behind enemy lines and heal retreating Onos, Fades, Lerks, structures, etc. And guess which gorge gets defensive support from their team? The NS1 or NS2 one? In NS1 the bond between Onos and gorge was there. And fun. The bond in NS2 is kind of there and sure as hell not fun. Neither for gorge or for Onos.
[edit]
ps UWE release everything before v1.0... you want a balanced game for 1.0, not a game that needs 2 - 3 builds to be balanced out...
Uwe should think about to remove the onos and add another new creature, maybe even a low res one (lower then 75 res).
Perhaps devour should be tier 2 research? i know the devs are very against taking control away from the player, but isnt that what vortex is? and the spider (as yet to be released also) sounds like webs, which do the same thing. I'm afraid that when exos come out, the heavy unit vs. heavy unit gameplay will be intensely marine sided unless the Onos gets some luvin'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm glad I am not the only one who remembers this... It's a contradiction in the design philosophy for sure. I would be interested in what Charlie had to say about these elements(taking away player control).
It's all a matter of numbers really, and I have faith that UWE will tweak it back and forth enough to make it feel right. Considering how much the Onos appears as an icon for NS2, the balancing will happen soon enough.
The Devour discussion does bring up an intersting point though... what will go in that extra weapon slot for the Onos?
So? Whats the problem "take away control from the player"? Flamethrower take the ability to attack from aliens(and the ability from lerk to fly...so its the same!), which has nearly the same effect.
The only diffrence is, you can maybe be alive and flee, but you also can in the belly of an onos if marines shoot the onos.
I realy hope that feature come back if marines have exosuit, otherwiste it will be very hard for aliens.
i mean dual wielded miniguns and alien egg smashing exosuits, wow the onos will survive only a second...how will they make this balanced without giving onos the eating ability?
Stomp don't even work with actual marines (i mean it kinda works but it isn't that effective like in Ns1, also the marines glitch/slide on the ground), and if exosuits comming...they laugh while there 1 second stun on the ground while their miniguns spin's :P
Maybe eaten Marines should be able to shoot the Onos from the inside to do damage. :P