Build 216 Discussion
Yashoki
Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59256Members
Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59256Members
This was copy and pasted from another thread, I figured we should have one dedicated post instead of a million.
Please keep this thread constructive and respectful of the devs and the time they put in.
I dislike the Hive/CC changes. Why do I dislike the visible CC/Hive? Because it's redundant information. Once we know where the hive is at, it's not going to move anywhere. It's up to the commander to keep everybody on track. The goal is to kill the hive, great! But I can't just walk in and poke it dead. There is a build up to that hive getting down and I feel like having that by having giant red 'go here' button it makes people more likely to just walk there and die. Why did the game tell me to go to this giant fortitied area? I don't know why I need to be constantly reminded that there is a hive there. I enjoy commanding and once we find where the hive is, I know what area to avoid and where we need to build against. I'm not going to forget what the objective is. The game yells at you as you start to destroy the enemy base. Having an "objective" is great, but it's not like we're playing NS2: The RPG and along the way to Data Core I'm going to be stopped by a friendly gorge to go pick up lerk pelts (somebody needs to make an NS2 RPG).
The progress bar while building is again something that seems redundant. I have a builder item that tells me the percentage, and the ring around the building, why do I need a bar as well? This also goes for the alien hive health. I'm personally against health bars by principle because I feel that there are better ways to display health. Maybe in a future update we can have physical scaring on the hive to show how destroyed it is getting or even have a hive list with health, just a suggestion, but I'm not happy with more clutter on my screen. The UI is nice and clean, yeah it's huge and it takes up a lot of screen real estate, but it at least looks nice and is for the most part, unobtrusive.
Please keep this thread constructive and respectful of the devs and the time they put in.
I dislike the Hive/CC changes. Why do I dislike the visible CC/Hive? Because it's redundant information. Once we know where the hive is at, it's not going to move anywhere. It's up to the commander to keep everybody on track. The goal is to kill the hive, great! But I can't just walk in and poke it dead. There is a build up to that hive getting down and I feel like having that by having giant red 'go here' button it makes people more likely to just walk there and die. Why did the game tell me to go to this giant fortitied area? I don't know why I need to be constantly reminded that there is a hive there. I enjoy commanding and once we find where the hive is, I know what area to avoid and where we need to build against. I'm not going to forget what the objective is. The game yells at you as you start to destroy the enemy base. Having an "objective" is great, but it's not like we're playing NS2: The RPG and along the way to Data Core I'm going to be stopped by a friendly gorge to go pick up lerk pelts (somebody needs to make an NS2 RPG).
The progress bar while building is again something that seems redundant. I have a builder item that tells me the percentage, and the ring around the building, why do I need a bar as well? This also goes for the alien hive health. I'm personally against health bars by principle because I feel that there are better ways to display health. Maybe in a future update we can have physical scaring on the hive to show how destroyed it is getting or even have a hive list with health, just a suggestion, but I'm not happy with more clutter on my screen. The UI is nice and clean, yeah it's huge and it takes up a lot of screen real estate, but it at least looks nice and is for the most part, unobtrusive.
Comments
All of this HUD stuff is still very much a WIP. So, some elements have gone in, without removing other old elements yet, leading to redundant info. The new progress bar is going to be the only thing you will have, and the other white bar that is in there, and the health rings, and the text over the crosshair when looking at structures will all be gone, and it will only be on this new panel. Probably in the build 217
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cory. When will you start listening to the community. As I posted in the other forum: the consumer is always right.
It seemed much cleaner, simpler and to be honest much cooler than a progress bar, that the whole world has seen a million times.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is the new progress bar and what is the white bar? Aren't they the same?
The rest? Are you kidding? The rings in the base of structures are 100 times better than a white bar, in the middle of vision, obstructing everything.
Crosshair text gone I'm for, was just telepathic info telling what HP% and maturity of an alien structure had.
What about the health/construct % icons on buildings? This is why NS1 rings were much better - not an EXACT percentage...
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What was wrong with what was currently there? How will this progress bar make it any better?
You just proved yourself wrong.
Obviously not. Why don't you read the comments from other users, before making a false statement.
But yes, as long as an option is added to turn all that stuff off if one wants to, I'm sure you guys will never hear a single complaint. But until then I'm sure a lot of people are gonna be unhappy with it (myself included)..
If the visible primary objective is redundant information for you, you are not the kind of player being targeted by its inclusion.
When the new health bar is implemented fully, there will be less UI elements on screen.
<i>UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ</i>
Well, then it's imperative you have an option to have it turned off. As NS2 wouldn't be here if it wasn't for us longstanding players.
Make sure you have it under a 'help' option, like in NS1.
If the visible primary objective is redundant information for, you are not the kind of player being targeted by its inclusion.
When the new health bar is implemented fully, there will be less UI elements on screen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe the problem Strayan is that the hive/CC is not the primary objective. It might be how you finish a game, but not how you win a game. If the purpose is to assist new players, I simply see them just running straight at the hive/cc over and over. This will occur untill someone like (the people upset over this change) rage at them on how to play the game properly.
<b>yes I whinge without offering alternative solutions, i know</b>
That's absolutely correct. When you start having multiple hives, either one is just as important.
The commanders waypoints should be enough.
<i>UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hey look it's me! Parasiting everyone, so they're green!
1- When pressing C, you'll see the mini map. Only problem is that the entire background is dark and gray. So exstremly annoying, because I use mini map 100 times every match :(
2- Why be totally green all type as marine until death once parasited? me not like :(
3- I don't want to see the enemy command station/hive 24/7 in your first person view. (it's redundant information)
Please save me and fix it <3
Or at least change the minimap to white then gray :P
btw, why be totally green all type as marine until death once parasited? me not like :(
<b>Hahaha enjoy:</b>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/W1ZtBCpo0eU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/W1ZtBCpo0eU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Edit:
I have played 5 games up to now and balance seems to have been adressed a bit. I was happy when i seen my armour being repaired at the armoury too
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're removing the build and weld percentage that's part of the builder/welder tool as well? That's redundant as well.
I can see removing the old text and health circles, despite how much I loved those circles. I can't see moving everything into a progress bar through. Even knowing the percentage was far more useful than some width in a bar. If you want it to be a competitive game you can't hide so much info from the player.
Edit:
I have played 5 games up to now and balance seems to have been adressed a bit. I was happy when i seen my armour being repaired at the armoury too<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's confirmed by Cory its a placeholder.
Problem is lerks were the one thing balancing out jetpacks. Dont even try to tell me skulks with leap were supposed to, because they dont. If you disagree, try to kill a JPer killing the generator hive as a skulk with leap. It wont work.
Regen and cara were the staples of any alien's upgrade path. Sorry if you cant think of more useful upgrades but those are and always will be the best and making us choose between one or the other is just a cheap way of making your other upgrades actually seem useful.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One key feature of natural selection was to explore the map and now you are showing where the CCs/hives are. I have no fun if I see the hives and CCs and I don't think that you should make it like that, now its only about rush the base.
Also, any reason behind the blurring when bringing up minimap? Totally jarring transition. If it was a balance change, I don't see why.. not with 50 cara still out there in the wild.
Hope alot of this UI clutter becomes toggle-able closer to 1.0 :x.
And actually, not every FPS game shows icons like these and those that do (a terrible reason to include it btw), do so because the game mode and objectives are relatively simple and straightforward, maps are generally very big and 'organic', and the minimap is restricted. e.g. blowing up m-comms in bf3. I just don't see these conditions in NS2. I mean, take a look at a game like counterstrike with really simple bomb objectives and notice the lack of UI hand-holding.
I get the reasoning that it doesn't affect experienced players, but its just really jarring and redundant given that it doesn't exactly provide any new information you wouldn't get elsewhere (big minimap shows hive/cc locations AND how to get there).
<b>Positives</b>
<ul><li>Lerk flight costs energy to flap</li><li>Fade blink seems to cost a bit more</li><li>Shadowstep has an energy cost (though I feel its a bit too high atm)</li><li>Skulk bite energy cost increased</li><li>Aliens can only take 1 upgrade from each chamber type (no more carapace/regen god fades)</li><li>I like the Hive/CC health bar when you are close to it (dunno about its visual look yet though)</li><li>Hit reg seems a bit more consistent</li><li>Full-Screen Windowed mode. Add last weapon quick switch and we are square</li><li>Docking changes are pretty nice so far</li><li>Insight is a great addition</li></ul>
<b>Negatives</b>
<ul><li>The Hive/CC HUD indicators in their present state are VERY obtrusive</li><li>Parasite material effect (good to hear this is a placeholder)</li><li>Armories restoring armor, I hope this gets reverted again when Exos make it in</li><li>Bringing up the minimap is a bit jarring with the darkened background. As a button I regularly press I don't much like this. Other than that the minimap changes are good.</li></ul>
<b>Neutral</b>
<ul><li>Building progress bar, I am okay with it's existence but the placeholder is smack dab in the middle of the screen and it's bad news bears.</li></ul>
I will have more thoughts as I play more matches.
My biggest complaint about this restriction is that it throws all alien players into one sort of "build" where you go carapace first (for the most part). This was something that I highly disliked about NS1. Having a set order that you "need" to build in order to win detracts from the fun and makes the gameplay very static. I would love to see some cloak 1st hives. But I feel like there's way too much of an incentive to stick to the tried-and-true.
The consumer is 100% <b><u>not</b></u> always right. You should really chill out.
And on another note, my performance seems substantially better, even with 3 hives up and most of the map cysted to hell! :)
My biggest complaint about this restriction is that it throws all alien players into one sort of "build" where you go carapace first (for the most part). This was something that I highly disliked about NS1. Having a set order that you "need" to build in order to win detracts from the fun and makes the gameplay very static. I would love to see some cloak 1st hives. But I feel like there's way too much of an incentive to stick to the tried-and-true.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, I can't really remember being locked into DC first in NS1. Generally it was Movement first, Defense Second, Followed by Sensory for most pubs. Otherwise it was Sensory, Defense, Movement or Defense grabbed third. If my memory is serving me correctly leading with DC was not really all that good. Been a while though.
We will also shrink and prettify the hive/command-station health. Look for this in 217 next week.