Fair Teams?

Justin1 · November 2002

I was just wondering what the community thought about fair teams and the general lack thereof. I always end up on the alien team because the game is almost always uneven in the way of frontiersmen. In the last 10 games I've joined, 8 of them had the frontiersmen up by two. Is this as common as I've seen, or am I wildly unlucky? Would it be fair to force the teams to be even strength, instead of kind of? It seems to me that unlike most other games where a good player can balance teams with unfair numbers, it is vital in NS that teams be even strength.

There are two main issues I see with NS right now.

1) people aren't joining the alien team until they absolutely have to. I saw a guy waiting in the ready room, INSIDE the marine selection area, for someone to join aliens. It was already 6 on 4.

2) The commander interface needs improvement or some method of reward. Too often I see a commander leaving his post half way through the game because he is bored, or it just taking a minute to convince someone to be a commander in the first place.

This is just a personal complaint, but are siege turrets necessary when marines already get grenade launchers? If the marine team worked together, they could easily take out a hive, or another fortified area, with grenade launchers and some healthy teamwork. Giving them siege turrets is like paying noobs to play the game. It might be wise to advertise in the ready room, "Play marines, you can't lose unless you are inhumanly stupid!".

Maybe siege turrets should need someone to control it? Maybe a marine should have to be +using it for it to do anything? At least then aliens might have a chance at defending against a siege.

It's probably just me, but it seems that aliens can either win by zerg rushing.. or well.. that's about it. If marines are given half a leg to stand on, they'll win the game.

Only through complete and absolute stupidity can a marine team lose after they get hmgs.

Well, I'm just babbling now, but I hope I can spark some conversation about balancing issues. So far, it seems that NS is anything but balanced.

Trowa_Barton · November 2002

Frontiersman should always have 1 more extra marine since 1 of them has to be commander. Therefore if its an overall of 15 marines vs 14 aliens then thats fair since 1 marine = commander, who does not fight. Aliens r superior anyway. I mean you dont have to be a a professional 'skulk' to kill 4-5 marines in 1 attack but as a marine... well most marines have hell of a time to take out 1 skulk. I found out that short burst are best use against skulks.
10-20 bullet burst should kill a skulk. Most marines i see just sprays a skulk and waste a whole clip in 1 skulk when theres 3-5 more behind the 1st skulk.

Dracos · November 2002

I must be a freak of some kind because im usually waiting to join the alien team. I think one reason like being the marines so much is the fact that they think that guns are the best things in the world and that not using guns is just silly or something. Also marines tend to be the team most people are good at when they start and since many people are new they always want to be marines cause there used to it. I think aliens will get more when people get used to them. Even if it has been a while since release many are still learning the game and marines are very easy to play compared to the tactics the best alien players tend to use. Not to say that marine tactics are all easy to perform tho. Most definately not the case.

Lt_Warhound · November 2002

*laugh* try playing for a while on more than one server, and then form an opinion.

Basically, you are saying aliens can't win.

Wrong.

I don't like losing. I like playing aliens. Do the math.

Siege turrets, like grenade launchers and heavy armor, are just another tool you have to work around. Try things like:

killing them

killing their turret factory

building a few extra def chambers, to outheal the damage from the siege turret

not letting them set up a turret farm that near your hive

All of these are things I regularly do, as an alien. Its not hard, you just need to work at it. No, you don't have to be leet like Jeff K, or dodge bullets like its the Matrix and you wear dark glasses. These things require not much more than a fair knowledge of the map, and the abilities of both sides. So you might die a few dozen times, big deal. If the hives win in the end, those deaths don't matter.

IF any side has it hard in this game, its the marines. Its really easy to end up with a marine team that hasn't a frigging clue what teamwork is, or how to more toward _one objective at a time. Which is why I don't play marines, unless the numbers are way out of wack. And a two player spread isnt' way out of wack, its just fine, and I'll say that from the smaller team, too.

Sorry, Justin, but my opinion is the game is pretty balanced, its the players that suck. You get a handful that know what they are doing, on both teams, and its a really intense fight that is a long way from being 'marines win when they get HMGs'.

Trowa, that one commander that isn't fighting is building, dropping ammo and health into heavy fights, easily paying for the one player it uses up. A commander watching over a heavy armor marine with constant health kits and ammo resupply can let that one marine take out a hive - defenses and all. Take away the ability of the commander to hot-drop health in, and then and only then would it be fair to have an extra marine just for the commander.

Ahnteis · November 2002

I always see a 2+ person advantage for the marine team.
Which brings me to a pet peeve. Can people PLEASE stop saying the commander doesn't count?! Anyone who can mystically drop health and ammo on any player anywhere on the map as well as having the extra intelligence that seeing the whole map gives is DEFINITELY worh 1 player slot. I'd even say in most cases the commander is worth *2* other players. Don't believe me, try playing with a comm who ONLY builds/drops equip at base and does nothing else. Unless the aliens are completely incompetent, marines lose every time.

Akira · November 2002

I think the Marines should always have a extra player (or 2), to account for the Commander and plus the fact (this is MY opinion ok?) that Aliens are generally more powerful anyway. I mean 1 skulk can kill 2-3 Marines if he is relatively skilled, and 1 Fade can, needless to say do a LOT of damage, i typically won't even bother engaging a fade unless i have Heavy Armour + a Shotgun Or HMG + some team mates backing me up!

It's pretty often (from what i've seen) that even with teams like 6-5 or 7-5 (Marines with the extras) Aliens always end up winning!!
Having said that though, i do LOVE the Marines and wouldn't even bother playing as the Aliens half the time - i simply leave the server altogether.

Ak. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

coil · November 2002

There's a reason that clan matches will be EVEN TEAMS and not have the marine team one-up. That reason is precisely what Ahnteis said - the commander most definitely counts! He's the most powerful player in the entire game.

The marines lose because they lack teamwork. Balance will continued to be tweaked, but there are no serious imbalances left. Learn teamwork or go back to CS.

Wyked · November 2002

Generally speaking i see the same thing with teams, but heres a secret, it doesnt really matter.

Now if its 5 on 3 or something like that i can see the problem, but once you get to 6 on 8 and up its not that big a deal to be 2 men down, and when you get to 12 on 8 and such its still not that big a problem, teamwork and some intelligence will easily win the game for you against large odds.

As far as siege turrets go, i used to think the same way.. a really cheap weapon that was super overpowered. But after playing for a while ive noticed they really arent. The weapons themselves are very powerfull yes, but if you let your team know that a turret factory is being built adjacent to an important area, you will soon have a whole mess of hurt raining down on some poor marines.

You arent supposed to defend against siege, defence runs counter to the spirit of this came, if you see a siege going up go after it.

As far as heavy armor and hmgs, they go down fast enough with a few competent aliens working them, especially with cloaking.

Heres a tactic to try, get 3 fades, two of them cloak in the middle of a hallway, the third runs out and shoots a couple acid blasts at the marine, when the HA's come chasing the fade down the other open up once the marines are past them and out of reach of any safety. 3 fades can take out 3 HA's pretty easy that way, even better if you have onos or lerks to back that up.

Fair Teams?

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