Adrenaline OP
TimMc
Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Members
Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Members
Since we are on the topic of aliens being overpowered... alot lately... I thought I'd mention this.
I think Adrenaline is too powerful. Fades engage easy mode, skulks leap everywhere, gorges bilebomb constantly making marine defense too hard.
I am thinking adrenaline should be changed to be an energy gain when you take damage, rather than constantly. Will keep the benefits to onos, or when a player gets flammed, but prevent bilebombing and other excesses.
I think Adrenaline is too powerful. Fades engage easy mode, skulks leap everywhere, gorges bilebomb constantly making marine defense too hard.
I am thinking adrenaline should be changed to be an energy gain when you take damage, rather than constantly. Will keep the benefits to onos, or when a player gets flammed, but prevent bilebombing and other excesses.
Comments
I think Adrenaline is too powerful. Fades engage easy mode, skulks leap everywhere, gorges bilebomb constantly making marine defense too hard.
I am thinking adrenaline should be changed to be an energy gain when you take damage, rather than constantly. Will keep the benefits to onos, or when a player gets flammed, but prevent bilebombing and other excesses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I totally agree. :)
Could mean a really long down time when you're out of adrenaline. Although i don't think the idea is too bad. Maybe also increase the energy regeneration out of combat like the health regeneration upgrade.
I think Adrenaline is too powerful. Fades engage easy mode, skulks leap everywhere, gorges bilebomb constantly making marine defense too hard.
I am thinking adrenaline should be changed to be an energy gain when you take damage, rather than constantly. Will keep the benefits to onos, or when a player gets flammed, but prevent bilebombing and other excesses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why is that OP? They're giving up an upgrade slot for adrenaline. That's carapace, regen, or celerity typically. Or a get-out-of-jail-free card in feign.
I actually consider both carapace and regen as more overpowered than adrenaline.
I actually consider both carapace and regen as more overpowered than adrenaline.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also agree feint, carapace and regen are too powerful aswell.
Feint needs to lose the cloak, instead have the player play dead with short invulnerability. Just need to watch a corpse to see if it gets up again.
Carapace needs to be reduced. 50 armour skulks are too tough. I would personally like it back the way it was (no slowdown, old armour boost).
Regen is sometimes so fast you can out-regen an attacking marine as an onos. Needs to start only when the player is out of combat.
<!--quoteo(post=1952517:date=Jul 19 2012, 08:23 AM:name=piratedave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (piratedave @ Jul 19 2012, 08:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952517"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->rather than increase energy regen, it should be an increase to energy capacity with a nerf to energy regen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this would just be boring to use in game. Energy is pretty essential. Unless the energy regen got a bit boost when out of combat, having a slow regen would just lead to people sitting in corners waiting for it.
You also gotta acknowledge that these upgrades are all that aliens have. They don't scale, they just get 1 more upgrade slot per hive. Rines get 10/20/30% more damage and 20/40/60 more armor for their upgrades. So imo, yes they should be powerful because they are all aliens get.
This is why the alien upgrade system is problematic though, because you must balance both lifeform survivability and upgrade effectiveness for both early game and late game simultaneously and it just doesn't work well. I really wish they'd introduce some scaling to them.
You sure? Maybe was a few builds ago but I swear my onos just walks around a battlefield regenerating health sometimes. I guess marines stopped firing. Maybe the timer should be increased beyond 3 seconds.
Very sure, and maybe you're right on your last point. It's not uncommon to start regening in combat if you evade enough to not get hit.
I don't understand the re-introduction of Adrenaline, I thought they were going for a "no strait upgrade" concept. While it is taking the place of another (argueably) more important upgrade, its still a flat increase. Carapace is better than it was in that it slows you down, but its still pretty flat - I think the price tag penalty was also a good way to go. The problem with Adrenaline is that its not a "super awesome, always take first" upgrade, its something that you take only if you use that fighting method; when you do, it IS the most important upgrade. In this instance, I don't see a res cost increase working out -> Carapace > Adrenaline.
Some sort of trade-off or mechanic involving skill should be brought to the table though.
Honestly that sounds like a nightmare.. in that the more an alien fights, the better off it will be. So a Gorge shooting biles into a base will never run out of energy; a fade who blinks in can simply do as much damage as possible and blink out - with full energy; an Onos who is getting rocked by a flamethrower can still have energy if they are demolishing everything in front of them. : /.
Maybe not as strong as that, after all its supposed to be useful rather than redefining your encounter.
The adrenaline bonus needs to be low enough that you won't actively seek it out, its just a nice boost when close to death in order to help. That said, if you are highly skilled you could play it to your advantage. My thinking however is 100% of your health in damage = 100% of your energy bar regained. A shotgun blast on a fade will decimate his health, but give him a nice boost of energy to escape.
An alternative mechanic could be faster energy regeneration, inversely proportional to your health. So someone on 20% health would have an 80% bonus to energy regen. Could lead to risky playing where people intentionally enter battles on low health, or at least lower health than full.
The adrenaline bonus needs to be low enough that you won't actively seek it out, its just a nice boost when close to death in order to help. That said, if you are highly skilled you could play it to your advantage. My thinking however is 100% of your health in damage = 100% of your energy bar regained. A shotgun blast on a fade will decimate his health, but give him a nice boost of energy to escape.
An alternative mechanic could be faster energy regeneration, inversely proportional to your health. So someone on 20% health would have an 80% bonus to energy regen. Could lead to risky playing where people intentionally enter battles on low health, or at least lower health than full.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first idea again benefits Skulks and Gorges more than other lifeforms (less health vs damage done = more energy gain).
The second idea sounds like it could work pretty well.. it would cause a decision in fighting as a Fade - when do I leave, should I stay because I can still gain a bit more energy? Then again, I don't know if it would be comparable to Carapace, Regen, Camouflage, etc. at that point; which is likely being given up for this upgrade.
I'll repeat my suggestion since no one did make a comment on it being a good/bad suggestion.
How about adrenaline gives a increased energy pool. The energy regeneration stays the same it is without adrenaline but it increases out of combat.
This would allow gorges to heal/grow a hive without energy problems since he's out of combat.
This would allow the skulk to leap through the map to travel fast. But he would have be more careful in combat since he has not unlimited energy.
This would allow the fade to blink through the map to travel fast. But he would have be more careful in combat since he has not unlimited energy.
I don't play much lerk but i have no real energy problems without adrenaline with him during the combat against marines. I run out of energy while destroying buildings with spikes, that would be no longer happen or take more time until it happens.
The onos would have to do more hit and run tactics. But i wouldn't focus on him to much since he is broken in many aspects anyway in my eyes.
Why would this make it so a gorge shooting biles will never run out of energy? The gorge would have to die eventually and would only get perhaps twice as many biles with a steady flow of damage coming in to him. I dont think you understand his idea. The energy regen on damage makes sense, what better to get your blood pumping than the danger of death? It would provide an escape mechanism while not providing a way to constantly rain spikes/bile bombs on opponents.
The adrenaline only working outside of combat also makes sense for eliminating the constant bile bomb issue as well, since if a gorge starts biling thats the first thing marines go for. But then again it wouldn't give skulks that essential extra leap in combat or fades that extra blink time or lerks those extra spores/umbras, which is essentially all they'd be getting the upgrade for. It would make it useless for them.
Just thought of something, why not extra energy regen while taking damage (simulating a combat high) but then slower regen after just coming out of a battle? (simulating coming off of the effects of an upper.) Might balance things out a bit.
I think this is a great idea. Someone mentioned it would still leave the Gorge overpowered...well, not sure I agree with that one. The Gorge would lose this advantage as soon as it started taking damage. Not to mention a Gorge doesn't even really need adrenaline to quickly take out a structure with bile bomb--what I notice the biggest help with is healing ability. As it is you can provide infinite heals to an Onos charging a base. Not sure what to do about that, it's not really that unfair...just take out the Gorge first as always.
Exactly. The gorge may be getting more energy from the damage for his bile, but he will die quickly unless he flees (or is at a hive, in which case aliens get a nice advantage of energy regen on damage, which is healed quickly).
It mostly, however, means that gorges will not run out of healspray while under attack, skulks will be able to leap away, fades blink away, and onos can constantly dish out damage while the enemy team is pounding on them rather than run out half way.
It is a large conceptual change though, and I can see why people don't like it.
The adrenaline only working outside of combat also makes sense for eliminating the constant bile bomb issue as well, since if a gorge starts biling thats the first thing marines go for. But then again it wouldn't give skulks that essential extra leap in combat or fades that extra blink time or lerks those extra spores/umbras, which is essentially all they'd be getting the upgrade for. It would make it useless for them.
Just thought of something, why not extra energy regen while taking damage (simulating a combat high) but then slower regen after just coming out of a battle? (simulating coming off of the effects of an upper.) Might balance things out a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, I miss-understood -> I thought you were saying that the more damage done, the more energy gained; not the more damage taken by the lifeform. I'm not big on this idea either though, as it would be about useless in most situations. Normally when you are taking damage, the issue isn't that you're out of energy, its that you're out of health. Really the only lifeform that would use this is the Fade - which I'm thinking it would be too powerful for as Fade combat is so completely based on energy usage.