New marine commander abilities

.ADHd

<div class="IPBDescription">Could be fundamentally needed for the game</div>In NS1, one of the most viable strategies for combating a looming siege by the aliens was to get very close to an alien tech point and drop a phase gate. In NS2 this is nearly impossible due to cysts denying the ability to build phase gates in alien territory (Where they are the most offensive and effective) also powernodes are needed to power the phase gate after... which all ends up taking time on top of the extremely precise and risky strat to begin with.

You could keep both cysts and powernodes but give the marines an upgrade which lets them build on creep (Perhaps only 1 structure) also giving marines an ability to power structures for a short period of time without the need of a powernode or powerpack could be brilliant. Hivesight on creep is not an intelligent measure because it keep marines from doing such tactics.

If marines were allowed to sneak into alien territory... drop a phase gate on creep and power it without the need for a powerpack or powernode (Perhaps allow 15 seconds of power) it could be enough to kill a hive and change the tides of the game.

This was an extremely necessary strategy in many NS1 games and NS1 and NS2 have very similar gameplay and concepts.

Of all my NS1 games I have seen, this strat was used more than any other to kill hives. It almost never happens in NS2 due to cysts and powernodes. It is still possible, however, if you find a small area without creep and are able to sneak a powerpack or powernode up. Even though this is extremely rare it almost always ends up doing extreme damage to the aliens... which in my opinion isn't so bad considering the games current balance... and the fact that even if you kill all their hive and structures they more than likely can afford to drop them all again... but your presence there will deny them that ability. So, by just changing and adding these couple abilities it could save the developers a lot of time on game balance... as strategy and tactics outweigh numbers and graphs.

Benson

I agree with the need to bring back ninja phasegates. The phasegate is now one of the largest differences between alien and marine since the MC teleportation between hives isnt in NS2. Marines either need a way to build on infestation, or need a way to deny an area as effective as aliens.

I like the concept of defining area control via infestation and power, but the current implementation seems alien sided as they have two ways to deny an area to the marines both by cutting the power and disabling all marine buildings or by not allowing marines to quickly build and fortify an area previously held by the aliens. Both sides of defining area control work against the marines by giving them a weak point and denying rapid expansion. This is further compounded by arcs no longer damaging cysts.

Giving the marines some way to build on infestation, if not totally unrestricting build location (not power though) would solve this problem as area control would be maintained, but still allow more creative tactical decisions like ninja phasegates. not to mention, sneaking a phase near a hive and trying to hold it was one of the funnest things to do in NS1.

Also, idea from another thread: On hivesight on infestation; the shade infestation upgrade could be to cloak the cysts and only show infestation so that parasite has to actually be used and marines actually CAN ninja

Death_by_bullets

Absolutely correct. Phase gates are essential for the marines. The first thing I upgrade as commander is welders and phase tech. Without the ability to move across vast distances of the map the Marines would be useless. The problem is that if you break a cyst chain, the alien commander simply builds another cyst and it automatically grows. However, to gain territory as marine, you must first clear the infestation. One solution to this was the ability of arcs to shoot cysts directly. Now, they just ignore them.

Another issue is the cost of phasegates. You must build an obs (15 res?) research phase tech (15) and build two phase gates (30). So when it's all said and done it costs 60 tres to obtain mobility. Then, when the Aliens come along and rush a powernode or phasegate, then you just lost so much res. I feel like the Marine economy is just at a point where it is too difficult to maintain territory.

Alien economy is supported by the fact that cysts and structures build themselves and cyst chains are easy to repair. Power nodes are easy to fix, but once they go down it immediately bones you.

What about this, how about when a power node goes down the structures don't immediately lose power but begin to slowly power down (IE they have a reserve battery). I mean seriously, is it too hard to believe that in the future each structure may have its own small battery? Maybe it would take like 10 - 20 seconds before they powered down completely. This would make it so that you could scramble enough forces to save your tech (and res) as well as prevent base rushes.

It's simply just too easy to destroy a marine outpost and even the base. Rush the power node.

[HEI] Spade

@ ADHd : the Khammander doesn't get every room full of cysts in his territory (for example: ball court and reactor core (Docking/Summit)). If a cyst is destroyed the Kham and the aliens can see a red place on the minimap to tell them there is a problem there, ITS NORMAL FOR ME( same for marines, except that they know who attacks the structure if in close combat). The Kham may not see it if it is not reported by a player. For me it is quite easy for good marines to get into a room and build a phase gate close enough to an hive out of infestation and without killing a cyst.
For hive-sight, the Kham needs to research it in a SHADE hive which is not usual as a 1st hive, or 2nd hive for some people. They already removed the hive-sight from the start, now it's a research and i find it normal at a stage of the game to have it to prevent being harvester rushed at 20 mins... Not having the hive-sight from the beginning i agree, remove it from the game i disagree strongly because it's a way of protection you need as alien. If there is a clever marine who can get to a room without being spotted by the Kham or any alien, it's the time to get a PG out of infestation.

But, i can't remember if marines with JPs are spotted when they are in the air over infestation. I agree that they shouldn't be spotted in that case, it will allow marines to really sneak into alien territory without going on infestation. (maybe reduce just a bit the radius of the infestation of cysts?)

They brought back the power packs for the ninja PGs, if you don't use it don't blame the game because it's working. The coming back of power packs enabled huge depth in the gameplay including the one you say ADHd :)

For the defense of a PG: place it well, place an armory next to it, some mines and some clever marines to defend it and to strike form it! If you are well organized, skulks can't do anything against PGs defended like this, if lerks come it will be more difficult but possible by trapping them with more marines, if fades come get 2-3 shotguns there, if onos come use the beacon in the room where there is the pg or use the beacon to kill it as fast as possible. If it was a ninja-PG and if skulks find it, you can quite forget about it... It needs to be a nuke: 90% of the team goes inside and destroy everything around in a short period of time, then defend the place by placing some buildings or just leave it and recycle...

Conclusion: imo hive-sight as it is right now shouldn't be removed, jp's shouldn't be spotted in the air over infestation, reduce the radius of infestation (maybe) to don't lock a room with to few cysts, power packs are here to go round the problem of energy, i usually see some hives being destroyed by ninja PGs even in infested rooms, an armory next to a PG can resolve a lot of problems in early-mid game, in late game the PG needs to be placed first in tech-point rooms to hold it, then branch out in the map.

VoodooHex

I agree. Marines need some early game expansion/area-denial love. Mines help, but they are not good enough. My normal game as marine goes like this, especially on docking:

Marines go and grab rt's while armory and mines are researched. Skulks rush main base and chew on ips or power node killing any marines there and the commander who jumps out chair. Marines who were out getting rt's have to fall back to secure main base. While they fall back, skulks start taking out those newly placed extractors. Marines expand out again with mines rebuilding new extractors. But, wait there's a gorge now who just sealed off that previous area and now a skulk just ambushed you and chewed on your ass.

By this time aliens have leap and several harvesters placed and are uncontested due to the incredible amount of pressure that they can inflict in the early game.

Marines maybe then research shotguns and start working on phase tech, but to the ease at which they lose extractors they struggle until they can get jet packs and the rest of their tech. Unless the coordination is very good, marines get roflstomped every time.

We can only wait and see how exo suits and further balancing plays out.

.ADHd

Spade load up NS1 and hang around long enough to see a PG siege.

Tell me which is easier... Having to (By luck) find a free spot to drop a pg in a cyst spam world... then try to get to the powernode through a sea of whips... and if you can't good luck finding space for a powerpack.

Or... you could do it the NS1 way... which is let the comm drop the pg and you hold e till it's done... no matter where you are without the need for extra steps and power. You shouldn't be denied the marines BEST ability due to some stupid spammed cysts. Such great thought and effort to use a pg siege and so easily thwarted by one person hitting A and click 5 times. Stupid.

Stealth phase gates arent even stealth because when you drop a structure it connects the powernode revealing that marines have built things in the area. Any intelligent player will see and know this.

Phase gates can of course still work on lucky circumstances, but overall they don't work even a fraction as well as they did in NS1... for their best purpose.

How is building PG's in your own territory helping your team when the marines have the most to lose from playing defensively?

It seems to me that phase gates in NS1 were always offensive in nature and used to push an important area right outside of a base.

In NS2 phase gates are for people who are too lazy to walk... because they are only ever in your own territory defending res nodes and etc... rarely used on the frontline due to how paper thin they are and easily killed they are by aliens. If you could sneak one up though... without aliens knowing... in their own base... you could actually win a game on marines from time to time in this game.

Sure you can do it with cysts and powernodes... about 10% of the time. Or if you have jetpacks to put a phase gate in some obscure location... only maps like mineshaft even allow for such strategy anyway.