I really miss the NS1 Lerk

Oversight99

You know, I see where the devs are going with the Lerk in NS2 and I've read all the posts and reasoning... but I just miss the NS1 lerk. It was a good unit, and allowed for a different playstyle for a while since it was effective at range. The NS2 Lerk, on the other hand, plays like a Skulk with wings.

Maybe there is some truth to the idea that it is more fun to be in the fray... but it is also more fun to have different playstyles available.

I really miss the chance to play a Lerk and, well, lerk at range and support my team. This skulk with wings isn't effective enough at close range, definitely not enough to justify the 30 point res cost. And trailing gas spores sounds good in theory, but there is something completely unsatisfying of thinking to myself "Well, that jetpack following me is probably taking damage from my spores." It just felt better to see them take the damage.

Sorry, not liking the play of the current Lerk at all. I can see some times it might be useful, but in general it isn't as fun as the NS1 Lerk used to be. At least to me.

Raven_XI

Disagree.

I prefer the NS2 lerk over the NS1 lerk as both an Alien and Marine player. Its less anoying as a marine, and its much more exciting when playing as the lerk itself.

Dictator93

<!--quoteo(post=1947573:date=Jun 28 2012, 10:38 PM:name=Raven_XI)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raven_XI @ Jun 28 2012, 10:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Disagree.

I prefer the NS2 lerk over the NS1 lerk as both an Alien and Marine player. Its less anoying as a marine, and its much more exciting when playing as the lerk itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree, marines do not hate the lerk just because anymore.

IronHorse

And god is the movement 100x better..

Angelusz

I have to disagree too. For ranged harass, just roost in a sneaky spot and assail them with spikes. When you need to flee, activate spores on the go to keep them off your trail.

When more aliens are nearby, you can now even jump into the battle, instead of staying back like a scared weasel! It's a matter of adjusting really, but it's completely different from skulks.

fanatic

The lerk DOT bite and crop duster spores are just as awful as they've always been. Perhaps they work fine a low skill levels, but they're completely broken for high(er) skill play.

<!--quoteo(post=1947677:date=Jun 29 2012, 01:05 PM:name=Angelusz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Angelusz @ Jun 29 2012, 01:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just roost in a sneaky spot and assail them with spikes. When you need to flee, activate spores on the go to keep them off your trail.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...and this tactic is inefficient even against the worst of marine players.

<!--quoteo(post=1947590:date=Jun 29 2012, 05:22 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jun 29 2012, 05:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947590"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And god is the movement 100x better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is easier, not necessarily better. That's fine though.

Angelusz

<!--quoteo(post=1947683:date=Jun 29 2012, 07:32 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jun 29 2012, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...and this tactic is inefficient even against the worst of marine players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Too bad you *forget* to mention why. I've had a few excellent kills that way. Naturally this is but one thing you can do. Flying around like a 'gunship' whilst spiking marines works very well in open areas, flying hence and forth whilst sporing works well in closed areas. And again these are just examples, there's many ways to play the lerk right now.

serpico

<!--quoteo(post=1947677:date=Jun 29 2012, 07:05 AM:name=Angelusz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Angelusz @ Jun 29 2012, 07:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to disagree too. For ranged harass, just roost in a sneaky spot and assail them with spikes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would've agreed about hiding and spiking 1 build ago, but now that it's a shotgun pattern, I think those days are gone.

In any case though, I like lerk. The removal of ranged spore has forced me to actually get good at lerk. When ranged spores and sniper-spike were in I would just hang out a mile away, take potshots and fly away when anything got close. No skill required.

I guess you're right that the gameplay is less varied in that there is no alien class that is effective at range now and lerk is definitely more skulkish than he used to be. I do think that's outweighed by lerk just having <i>better</i> gameplay now though.


<!--quoteo(post=1947683:date=Jun 29 2012, 07:32 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jun 29 2012, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The lerk DOT bite and crop duster spores are just as awful as they've always been. Perhaps they work fine a low skill levels, but they're completely broken for high(er) skill play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Broken good? broken bad? Both seem pretty fine the way they are in my experience, but I only play in pubs.

Angelusz

I do agree that you have to hide in closer since the 'shotgun pattern' change. Lets face it though, them long range lerks were annoying as hell when you played marine. ;)

TimMc

I'm not a very good lerk, but I far prefer it in NS2. Cropdusting is exciting, and useful for covering your escape. Spikes are useful for irritation. Umbra is pretty nice.

Poison bites a bit crap against anyone with a good comm though. Would be nice if first medpack stopped the poison, second medpack healed the marine.

Oversight99

<!--quoteo(post=1947724:date=Jun 29 2012, 09:02 AM:name=TimMc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimMc @ Jun 29 2012, 09:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947724"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not a very good lerk, but I far prefer it in NS2. Cropdusting is exciting, and useful for covering your escape. Spikes are useful for irritation. Umbra is pretty nice.

Poison bites a bit crap against anyone with a good comm though. Would be nice if first medpack stopped the poison, second medpack healed the marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Here is the problem though... all of those need to be researched. At default, you can bite and cropdust. Several games Umbra never even becomes available :(

I might feel different if spikes didn't have to be researched, but they do as well. So, when I can first go Lerk... I can only bite and cropdust. And biting is incredibly ineffective, for some reason. (As an aside, I wonder how the Lerk bite compares to the Skulk bite.)

fanatic

<!--quoteo(post=1947712:date=Jun 29 2012, 03:56 PM:name=serpico)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (serpico @ Jun 29 2012, 03:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Broken good? broken bad? Both seem pretty fine the way they are in my experience, but I only play in pubs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Broken bad. Good commanders med almost instantly, making DOT bite completely useless. Crop dusting is suicidal against players who can aim consistently with the shotgun.

swalk

<!--quoteo(post=1947758:date=Jun 29 2012, 08:08 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jun 29 2012, 08:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Broken bad. Good commanders med almost instantly, making DOT bite completely useless. Crop dusting is suicidal against players who can aim consistently with the shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These two needs to be on the to-fix list.

serpico

<!--quoteo(post=1947758:date=Jun 29 2012, 01:08 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jun 29 2012, 01:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Broken bad. Good commanders med almost instantly, making DOT bite completely useless. Crop dusting is suicidal against players who can aim consistently with the shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ah right. Hopefully a (possibly impending?) increase in lerk speed makes cropdusting against decent shotgunners more viable.

I agree about bite poison being too easy to counter as well. I don't think there's an easy solution to that, so I expect we'll eventually see a somewhat complicated one. Could do something like making "poison damage" recover gradually like it does in hl2, or like drowning damage does in many games. Then you just make it so poison damage is not heal-able.

rhombus

<!--quoteo(post=1947763:date=Jun 29 2012, 02:25 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Jun 29 2012, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These two needs to be on the to-fix list.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


You have no idea how many times I have brought this up in PT's..

peregrinus

I prefer NS2 Lerk, Fade and Onos. Prefer NS1 skulk and gorge.

TimMc

<!--quoteo(post=1947866:date=Jun 29 2012, 06:56 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 29 2012, 06:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947866"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I prefer NS2 Lerk, Fade and Onos. Prefer NS1 skulk and gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah Gorge is still fun, but RIP OC towers. :(

IronHorse

<!--quoteo(post=1947763:date=Jun 29 2012, 11:25 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Jun 29 2012, 11:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These two needs to be on the to-fix list.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll add them now.
But.. how did you know there is one? >_<

bily

I don't like having two dots as the lerks initial attacks. While stacking dots can influence a play slightly by using up medpacks early game, this advantage is quickly lost with how fast marines gain res currently. Also, like Fana and Swalk said, a decent marine commander will med almost instantly minimizing damage done to almost nothing. I really do like the cropdusting mechanic, especially early game as it makes the lerk feel more directly involved than in ns1 where you could blindly gas spots on instinct and never really have to engage except when you knew you could pick up the easy kill. Its a shame that even with melee spore, directly engaging feels much less rewarding than in ns1 where your bite could quickly mopup unattended to marines. With the current lerk, until spikes are researched, I feel far more dependent on skulks to clean up especially if marines have shotguns and even one decent aimmer. Even without shotguns I feel like if the commander is attentive he can still quickly reverse any damage I may have done. Adding to that, that spikes are rarely researched until the second hive or in cheesy builds once marines get their upgrades and res going, I feel like there's no reason not to wait for more res and have an extra fade or onos instead of a melee dot lerk at least until mass jps. Even then fighting marines with jps, a melee lerk is about as useless as a fade or skulk against a decent aimmer.

Personally, and I know these will probably stay personal opinions lol, I would rather see bite be burst damage like ns1 and spikes be a ranged dot with a minor burst much like bite is now. Imo this would make the lerk feel less dependent on skulks or spikes to directly influence a fight early game (with burst bite) while increase their longevity late game (by staying out of the fight and ranged spiking/umbraing).

By the way, I would expect to see spikes researched a lot more especially for cheesing with how they play in 212. They make buildings disappear.

/End rant

Angelusz

<!--quoteo(post=1947909:date=Jun 29 2012, 11:49 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jun 29 2012, 11:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947909"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll add them now.
But.. how did you know there is one? >_<<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think he knows anything specific, just an educated guess. They are developing and in beta, after all. :p

internetexplorer

<!--quoteo(post=1947686:date=Jun 29 2012, 08:48 AM:name=Angelusz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Angelusz @ Jun 29 2012, 08:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Too bad you *forget* to mention why<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

because you're sitting still as a fragile expensive lifeform balanced around constant smooth movement?
because you're only killing people with zero map awareness who are staying in your line of sight for <b>ages </b>and not killing you first?

this isn't even worth arguing. blech.

ellnic

In earlier builds when the lerk was more like an NS1 lerk was great. You could hide away and shoot spores with outh even being seen. It was fun but it didnt fit with the new directin of NS2. In my opinion though I like the NS2 lerk better.

1dominator1

NS1 lerk was helluva scary, NS2 lerk is just sort of annoying (unless the player is really good and even then I question how things will look with good performance).

AurOn2

ns1 lerk is far more effective than any of the cool features the lerk has got now.

Oversight99

<!--quoteo(post=1947777:date=Jun 29 2012, 11:47 AM:name=serpico)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (serpico @ Jun 29 2012, 11:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947777"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah right. Hopefully a (possibly impending?) increase in lerk speed makes cropdusting against decent shotgunners more viable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

To follow up on this ... the increase to Lerk speed seems to have helped a little bit.

Unfortunately, there is a new problem. Either because of the rate of update, or maybe server lag, the trail of spores is inconsistent in some cases. If I fly through a room it will be spotted with gas, but the gas pockets will not connect. They are easy to avoid I think.

I still have a problem with releasing gas and never knowing if I did any good. I really want some feedback to help me know I did some good with my gas attack. It is incredibly unsatisfying otherwise.

AurOn2

i want the spore cannon back!

mushookees

<!--quoteo(post=1951617:date=Jul 14 2012, 08:16 PM:name=Oversight99)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oversight99 @ Jul 14 2012, 08:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951617"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still have a problem with releasing gas and never knowing if I did any good. I really want some feedback to help me know I did some good with my gas attack. It is incredibly unsatisfying otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

this is probably the biggest problem with the lerk !!!!! There is no feedback at all !!!!

Did my lerk bite even connect ????
Did the server acknowledge my bite ????
Did the COMM medpack him ????
I think hes low hp now so should i fly in close and finish him ????
Is my gas even hitting anyone ???
Am i gassing too high up ????
Which marine did i bite last time ????

i could go on but i think you get the point. It would be awesome if lerks could tell which marines were being affected by what and how much damage youve inflicted