Alien cloaking is so powerful now marines don't stand much of a chance away from the obs
Vortex last a bit too long IMO.
Spikes are cool but the first time I saw them they made my Onos get stuck against a crate. Let aliens pass through spikes please.
Frames per second quite steady around 60 in game and 90+ in the ready room. I dont know if it was the server or whatever something was causing players (including their mini map icons) to move around in a very laggy way.
The res income speed has been slowed down? Feels much better with extended early and mid games.
<!--quoteo(post=1947839:date=Jun 29 2012, 04:04 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 29 2012, 04:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alien cloaking is so powerful now marines don't stand much of a chance away from the obs<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought so too until someone told me to turn bloom on. If the aliens are cloaking turn it on and you will see faint outlines of anything that's cloaked... very useful ;)
edit:
Oh and I forgot to add, Arc trains are still just as bad as ever. Really need some tweaking to go into them. Doesn't matter if they splash, most Arc trains are suicidal anyway, roll up to the hive and kill it, then retreat if you have any left. Plush the splash damage is extremely easy to minimize as a marine commander because you can manually target the arcs- so "whip bombing" arcs as I heard Charlie suggest in the video (similar tactic to dropping siege tanks in SC2) does not work at all really. Arcs being able to attack completely independently from what marines are doing is a big problem.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
edited June 2012
khammander spikes are a little bit frustrating for both marine and alien players, it feels very cheap/troll like.
I would suggest replacing them with a web AOE ability that the khammander can cast. it would be a 3D AOE so that it could entangle jetpackers also.
but it could have maybe 0.5-1.0 second fade in time before the full slowing affect is applied so that marines could have a chance to get out of the webbed area - so it doesn't feel cheap (since if they are fast enough can get away, but you are still effectively slowling their push forward., edit: or slowling their retreat)
and also it would look cool seeing web shoot out of the infestation :)
I'm liking everything about the new build so far. However playing as onos with cara feels pointless.
Onos dies very quickly against L3 weapons anyway, but with cara there is no chance to escape at all. Onos needs a health buff and charge improved, but otherwise I am fine with the speed penalty from cara for the other evolutions.
<!--quoteo(post=1947842:date=Jun 29 2012, 05:12 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Jun 29 2012, 05:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947842"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->khammander spikes are a little bit frustrating for both marine and alien players, it feels very cheap/troll like.
I would suggest replacing them with a web AOE ability that the khammander can cast. it would be a 3D AOE so that it could entangle jetpackers also.
but it could have maybe 0.5-1.0 second fade in time before the full slowing affect is applied so that marines could have a chance to get out of the webbed area - so it doesn't feel cheap (since if they are fast enough can get away, but you are still effectively slowling their push forward., edit: or slowling their retreat)
and also it would look cool seeing web shoot out of the infestation :)
ps gorge needs a web grapple :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah spikes seem a bit weird. I would have prefered vines, or similar. Vines shoot out of the infestation and pull marines down. Slow them down if already on the floor.
<!--quoteo(post=1947852:date=Jun 29 2012, 05:32 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Jun 29 2012, 05:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or attack you when your are looken the other way?!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol I'm just imagining marines freaking out and looking for a skulk when they get attacked constantly from behind.
<!--quoteo(post=1947857:date=Jun 29 2012, 07:07 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 29 2012, 07:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How do I turn bloom on? I don't know if it's on or not<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1947829:date=Jun 30 2012, 07:31 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Jun 30 2012, 07:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Create a server and try it out, you can learn quite a bit about the shotgun with trace bullets on and a dummy skulk or fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah that's pretty revealing. The first thing is I had no idea hitboxes so closly matched the models. It's surprising to see how many pellets miss no matter how perfectly you line up the shot, not due to spread so much but the bullet/pellet passing between the skulks legs etc.
The second thing is that bullets fly out of your eyeballs towards whatever is in the dead centre of your screen. In that way, the actual weapon in the bottom right is very misleading. If you get extremely close and have part of the skulks leg fully in the reticule, you'll hit with all pellets. Move just a few degrees so that there's no part of the skulk within the reticule and you miss completely, yet you'd imagine a line from the weapon's barrel wouldn't miss.
And last, bullets have no width, so they don't catch on things. I guess that's obvious from a programming perspective but counterintuitive.
Anyway I agree with your 4 pellet estimate. At the DC-Pipe Junction ramp distance (7-8 meters?), the shotgun reticle encircles the skulk fairly well but the pellets fall within about twice that radius. It seems fairly consistent at that range, so I guess we can assume half the pellets will fall within the reticule and the remainder within a second radius. Interestingly at half that range, it seems to be between 5 and 10 pellets hitting, much more vairable. At that range you'll easily fill the inner circle but the outer circle is perhaps 50% occluded with the skulks limbs and a bit of his body. So depending on the orientation of the blast, if you get lucky the outer pellets will strike his legs.
I've been enjoying this build - the slowdown of the economy has been interesting and makes for more challenging games. What I have noticed is that there is no endgame any more; perhaps it's the games I've been playing, but for the most part it's ending by the mid-game. By that point one side or the other has at least 75% of the map or more, and there isn't much chance for the other side to recover. From there it's a steady slide down to either players going to the rr, or a landslide victory; either way, as khammander I've only just started researching abilities or (less frequently), as commander I'm just getting jet packs.
I <b>really</b> think that alien abilities need to be tied to hive development, so that you need two hives to unlock the second tier abilities. I have not encountered a game where leap wasn't the absolute first buy. In fact if leap <i>isn't</i> bought the alien players are downright hostile. Increasing the price to 25 hasn't made it any less popular - it's simply a fantastic advantage over the marine player.
Of course we'll be talking a whole different set of balancing acts when the exo is added, but hey, that's what I've got so far.
Great post from Rantology again, agree with a lot of the suggestions he/she has made on these forums.
Not been able to play much lately, from the patch notes however it looks to be a hell of a lot more fun than 210, definitely a step in the right direction. Having hardly any early game in 210 just ruined the game for me, totally put me off playing.
Heard a lot of positive news about the upcoming patches also, so will be looking forward to them.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2012
Binding abilities to hives isnt a good idea. You can easily balance things with finetune researchtimes, cost and buildtimes. I think both sides can have higher tech way to fast. Marines have jp around 5 min, leap is up @ same time.
Aliens still have nothing vs jp and dont have a finisher. Thats the real problem right now. Marines roll in with some arcs and can finish this. Aliens have to go in. I really cant imagine how you want to balance the exo compare to current game-mechanic.
In 212 there less turrets cause an bug, but marines still can bunker in base and we have the good old stalemates. Without turrets!!!!
And i really dont understand some changes. Turrets are weaker now, cause the game should not feel like an tower defence game. Ok, nice change. But why they can be build in half of the time and with nano nearly insta? This counter the weakness of the turrets. Faster repair rate didnt help here also, cause 2 macs (they have more armor in 212 for sure) can easily repair the "weaker" turrets. ARCs cannot damage cysts, wich is nice btw.But what the coms doin vs cysts instead? They build more turrets, so we have the same again.
If you want no tower defence game=less turrets, the logical change would be: - increase robotics factory cost - increase buildtime and cost of turrets - decrease armor of turrets - decrease repair rates of macs - decrease mac-armor or remove mac (emp halfed alien energy. What energy, there is no more energy in the game)
And this is only one example, you can do that with nearly every aspect of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1947949:date=Jun 30 2012, 12:30 PM:name=dePARA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dePARA @ Jun 30 2012, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Binding abilities to hives isnt a good idea. You can easily balance things with finetune researchtimes, cost and buildtimes. I think both sides can have higher tech way to fast. Marines have jp around 5 min, leap is up @ same time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played a gather yesterday and we had leap up around one minute in to the game IIRC. Although, I hear they're going to tie leap (and the other tier 2 abilities) to second hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1947949:date=Jun 30 2012, 12:30 PM:name=dePARA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dePARA @ Jun 30 2012, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens still have nothing vs jp and dont have a finisher. Thats the real problem right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What about lerk spikes? It's my go-to whenever I see jet packs. I haven't played fade enough in b212 to know how good it is against jp's without the swipe delay though.
<!--quoteo(post=1947949:date=Jun 30 2012, 12:30 PM:name=dePARA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dePARA @ Jun 30 2012, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really cant imagine how you want to balance the exo compare to current game-mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, to hell with nanoshield. On the other hand the exo isn't in the game yet, but if we're to make assumptions based on prio balance fixes UWE has made, it will be a horrible couple of patches.
SloppyKissesomgawd a furreh!VirginiaJoin Date: 2003-07-05Member: 17942Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1947682:date=Jun 29 2012, 08:29 AM:name=iKossu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iKossu @ Jun 29 2012, 08:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947682"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even build 210 boosted my fps with like 10-20. I haven't tested this one yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Les ARC ne vise plus directement les oeuf aliens. Les dommage collateraux des arc touche maintenant les structure amis et les arc . Changement du marine buy menu pour etre plus facile et rapide ( 1 click buy ). LE CC ne peut plus etre vortex. Cyst ne prenne plus de dommage par les ARC. Recycler une structure fantome ne rend plus toute les ress quelle coute. Chengement des turret qui sont plus puissante quand des marines sont a proximite d'elle et moins puissante si non.Changement sur leur facon de viser aussi. Chengement du temps de construction des turret a 6Sec.Reduction de leur vie/armure à 325/100.
NS2_Tram Fix des probleme d'occlusion dand ORe/Repair ventilation et le couloir connectant logistics et repair room. Fix de quelque trous dans la map ou on pouvais voir le ciel. Fix de probleme de bloquage dans la map ou sur des escalier.
The new leap is incredibly disappointing. It feels like it's just there to make the skulk more effective at what it already does (run at stuff on the ground and bite it), instead of creating new opportunities.
You can't fight jetpacks with it because the height gain is so restricted. What happened to "player skill allowing you to overcome tech/economy disadvantages"?
Also, what's the deal with shadow step? When it didn't cost energy, it had a purpose because you wouldn't lose a 50 res lifeform to 1 flame particle hitting you at a bad time. Now that it costs energy, it seems to be nothing more than a mini-blink for when you haven't researched blink yet (unnecessary!) - you still get wrecked by some guy aimlessly touching you with a couple flame particles.
<!--quoteo(post=1948026:date=Jun 30 2012, 01:54 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jun 30 2012, 01:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948026"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't fight jetpacks with it because the height gain is so restricted. What happened to "player skill allowing you to overcome tech/economy disadvantages"?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol this quite clearly isn't the case. Marine jetpacks allow for poor skill to trump over high skilled aliens. Once they get grenades and flamers, there is no need for skill at all. Just mindlessly attacking the hive. Flamer jetpackers make it impossible for skulks and fades to get up to them.
They've also nullified the (small to begin with) skill ceiling on the onos with this cara change. Its slow, no chance to escape or to enter a fight. Its just big and dumb now. All you can do is attack the base and hope CC dies before you do when the commander beacons.
Since this built i get a weird performancedrop when the game gets over 5 minutes. I cant really turn. Its getting worse while the game goes on. Its like my mouse is getting tired or something! xD To be serious again: Last game 5 Minutes before the marines killes us (so pretty much lategame) the smallest turn i could do was 33.33333° . It is hard to move like that and nearly impossible to hit stuff with such a poor control of your movement. The weird thing is: When i try to turn up and down it is totally smooth and the fps are around 40.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Implement an arms lab equivalent (mutation chamber) for Kharaa. Let Kharaa tech armor(carapace), frenzy(attack speed) using the mutation chamber in the same way marines tech weapon damage and armor using the arms lab. Replace Carapace on the Crag tech hive with something else. An idea that comes to mind is additional damage absorption per bullet, or reduced damage while armor is up.
It solves the issue of making Crag hive first pick and the explosive power aliens receive at the beginning of the game from carapace. I can also help make Aliens not suck so much completely late game by having a stronger carapace (level 3). Not to mention carapace will also no longer require the need of a "trade-off" that becomes a balancing head-ache between alien lifeforms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
30/60/90 over the spam of 8 minutes is immensely better than the 80 armor explosion one minute into the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1948026:date=Jul 1 2012, 04:54 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jul 1 2012, 04:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948026"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It feels like it's just there to make the skulk more effective at what it already does (run at stuff on the ground and bite it), instead of creating new opportunities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1948026:date=Jul 1 2012, 04:54 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jul 1 2012, 04:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948026"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->run at stuff on the ground and bite it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1948026:date=Jul 1 2012, 04:54 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jul 1 2012, 04:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948026"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ground<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is there anything about this quote that you would like to revise?
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited July 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1948077:date=Jun 30 2012, 05:44 PM:name=Lorian)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lorian @ Jun 30 2012, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948077"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since this built i get a weird performancedrop when the game gets over 5 minutes. I cant really turn. Its getting worse while the game goes on. Its like my mouse is getting tired or something! xD To be serious again: Last game 5 Minutes before the marines killes us (so pretty much lategame) the smallest turn i could do was 33.33333° . It is hard to move like that and nearly impossible to hit stuff with such a poor control of your movement. The weird thing is: When i try to turn up and down it is totally smooth and the fps are around 40.
If this is a known problem, i am sorry. ;)
Anyway, you are doing a great job UWE!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Known bug that is impossible to reproduce! IF you find a way to reproduce this PLEASE tell us, either on the forums or PM me or steam me etc! We want to fix this annoying bug but have no clue how to reproduce it.. it seems random. Thanks!
@Khyron: Dont use trace all as gorgeous suggested to test hitboxes/hitreg, only for the actual pattern of the shotgun/rounds. If you want to test the hitreg, just type the command hitreg in the console.. but i advise you not to do this in an online game with more than a few people, if possible. :) Remember: Blue is the only color that means there was a disagreement between the client and the server - what we would call a hitreg issue. The other two colors designate a hit or miss.
<!--quoteo(post=1948109:date=Jun 30 2012, 11:10 PM:name=Khyron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Khyron @ Jun 30 2012, 11:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is there anything about this quote that you would like to revise?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
can't wait for adrenaline to be put into the game. i think we're gonna see the decline of JP domination with good skulk and fades with adrenaline. adding Focus back in would have the same effect. the main problem is blink/leap just costs too much energy to effectively combat jetpackers even if you manage to hit every single swipe/bite. that's what, 3 bites or swipes before you have to let them escape because you ran out of energy?
Ironhorse this bug can be done by enter the hive in aliens and go out while leaping you get blocked at moving your vision more than 45 maybe less maybe a little more and when this bug appair you see the commander aliens mouse pointer staying on your screen for me .
<!--quoteo(post=1948156:date=Jul 1 2012, 06:03 AM:name=DrFlammable)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DrFlammable @ Jul 1 2012, 06:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->can't wait for adrenaline to be put into the game. i think we're gonna see the decline of JP domination with good skulk and fades with adrenaline. adding Focus back in would have the same effect. the main problem is blink/leap just costs too much energy to effectively combat jetpackers even if you manage to hit every single swipe/bite. that's what, 3 bites or swipes before you have to let them escape because you ran out of energy?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
coincidentally, I don't see shifts made in pubs right now and I <i>certainly </i>don't see stuff being echoed to key locations to solve these problems
A long, drawn out game where both sides achieve all tech - aliens have 3 hives while mareins have 2 bases. The slow pres means that aliens cannot use onos very often, and marines are struggling to use grenade launchers and jetpacks.
In this situation, the commanders are the ones who are forced to try and end the game. Alien commander can whip rush, but that is hard and ultimately nullfied by what marine commanders have - ARCS.
The marine commander keeps sending 3-4 ARCS, and nanoshielding them all. The aliens cannot kill them before the hive is half dead, and most the supporting structures are dead long before. Aliens try to repair the hive, and rebuild the stuctures, but the marine commander just repeats this several more times until the alien hive is dead. Marines don't even need to help the ARCS.
Aliens heal stuff slowly, marines heal stuff very quickly. If the aliens attack and fail, they have lost several onos and the damage will be repaired in under a minute. The marine attacks slowly grind down the alien base, despite being poorly executed. This is not the way it should be.
TLDR Summary: - Poor pres income has rendered aliens terrible endgame, since final assaults rely on pres while marines rely upon ARCS from tres. - This is not fun for either side. Marines get bored using LMG and shotguns, aliens get bored of replacing structures. - Marine assaults on alien bases takes a long time to repair. Alien assaults on marine bases take seconds to repair. This means poor marine assaults don't matter as long as they keep doing them. Alien assaults must be done with focus and teamwork.
We need less tres income, a bit more pres income, alien structure healing needs to be faster to almost marine levels and ARCs need a strong counter - either a shade ability that stops the commander scans, or drifter dampening field?
Comments
Alien cloaking is so powerful now marines don't stand much of a chance away from the obs
Vortex last a bit too long IMO.
Spikes are cool but the first time I saw them they made my Onos get stuck against a crate. Let aliens pass through spikes please.
Frames per second quite steady around 60 in game and 90+ in the ready room. I dont know if it was the server or whatever something was causing players (including their mini map icons) to move around in a very laggy way.
The res income speed has been slowed down? Feels much better with extended early and mid games.
I thought so too until someone told me to turn bloom on. If the aliens are cloaking turn it on and you will see faint outlines of anything that's cloaked... very useful ;)
edit:
Oh and I forgot to add, Arc trains are still just as bad as ever. Really need some tweaking to go into them. Doesn't matter if they splash, most Arc trains are suicidal anyway, roll up to the hive and kill it, then retreat if you have any left. Plush the splash damage is extremely easy to minimize as a marine commander because you can manually target the arcs- so "whip bombing" arcs as I heard Charlie suggest in the video (similar tactic to dropping siege tanks in SC2) does not work at all really. Arcs being able to attack completely independently from what marines are doing is a big problem.
I would suggest replacing them with a web AOE ability that the khammander can cast.
it would be a 3D AOE so that it could entangle jetpackers also.
but it could have maybe 0.5-1.0 second fade in time before the full slowing affect is applied so that marines could have a chance to get out of the webbed area - so it doesn't feel cheap (since if they are fast enough can get away, but you are still effectively slowling their push forward., edit: or slowling their retreat)
and also it would look cool seeing web shoot out of the infestation :)
ps gorge needs a web grapple :P
Onos dies very quickly against L3 weapons anyway, but with cara there is no chance to escape at all. Onos needs a health buff and charge improved, but otherwise I am fine with the speed penalty from cara for the other evolutions.
I would suggest replacing them with a web AOE ability that the khammander can cast.
it would be a 3D AOE so that it could entangle jetpackers also.
but it could have maybe 0.5-1.0 second fade in time before the full slowing affect is applied so that marines could have a chance to get out of the webbed area - so it doesn't feel cheap (since if they are fast enough can get away, but you are still effectively slowling their push forward., edit: or slowling their retreat)
and also it would look cool seeing web shoot out of the infestation :)
ps gorge needs a web grapple :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah spikes seem a bit weird. I would have prefered vines, or similar. Vines shoot out of the infestation and pull marines down. Slow them down if already on the floor.
lol I'm just imagining marines freaking out and looking for a skulk when they get attacked constantly from behind.
In the options.
Yeah that's pretty revealing. The first thing is I had no idea hitboxes so closly matched the models. It's surprising to see how many pellets miss no matter how perfectly you line up the shot, not due to spread so much but the bullet/pellet passing between the skulks legs etc.
The second thing is that bullets fly out of your eyeballs towards whatever is in the dead centre of your screen. In that way, the actual weapon in the bottom right is very misleading. If you get extremely close and have part of the skulks leg fully in the reticule, you'll hit with all pellets. Move just a few degrees so that there's no part of the skulk within the reticule and you miss completely, yet you'd imagine a line from the weapon's barrel wouldn't miss.
And last, bullets have no width, so they don't catch on things. I guess that's obvious from a programming perspective but counterintuitive.
Anyway I agree with your 4 pellet estimate. At the DC-Pipe Junction ramp distance (7-8 meters?), the shotgun reticle encircles the skulk fairly well but the pellets fall within about twice that radius. It seems fairly consistent at that range, so I guess we can assume half the pellets will fall within the reticule and the remainder within a second radius. Interestingly at half that range, it seems to be between 5 and 10 pellets hitting, much more vairable. At that range you'll easily fill the inner circle but the outer circle is perhaps 50% occluded with the skulks limbs and a bit of his body. So depending on the orientation of the blast, if you get lucky the outer pellets will strike his legs.
I <b>really</b> think that alien abilities need to be tied to hive development, so that you need two hives to unlock the second tier abilities. I have not encountered a game where leap wasn't the absolute first buy. In fact if leap <i>isn't</i> bought the alien players are downright hostile. Increasing the price to 25 hasn't made it any less popular - it's simply a fantastic advantage over the marine player.
Of course we'll be talking a whole different set of balancing acts when the exo is added, but hey, that's what I've got so far.
Not been able to play much lately, from the patch notes however it looks to be a hell of a lot more fun than 210, definitely a step in the right direction. Having hardly any early game in 210 just ruined the game for me, totally put me off playing.
Heard a lot of positive news about the upcoming patches also, so will be looking forward to them.
I think both sides can have higher tech way to fast. Marines have jp around 5 min, leap is up @ same time.
Aliens still have nothing vs jp and dont have a finisher. Thats the real problem right now.
Marines roll in with some arcs and can finish this. Aliens have to go in.
I really cant imagine how you want to balance the exo compare to current game-mechanic.
In 212 there less turrets cause an bug, but marines still can bunker in base and we have the good old stalemates.
Without turrets!!!!
And i really dont understand some changes.
Turrets are weaker now, cause the game should not feel like an tower defence game. Ok, nice change.
But why they can be build in half of the time and with nano nearly insta? This counter the weakness of the turrets.
Faster repair rate didnt help here also, cause 2 macs (they have more armor in 212 for sure) can easily repair the "weaker" turrets.
ARCs cannot damage cysts, wich is nice btw.But what the coms doin vs cysts instead? They build more turrets, so we have the same again.
If you want no tower defence game=less turrets, the logical change would be:
- increase robotics factory cost
- increase buildtime and cost of turrets
- decrease armor of turrets
- decrease repair rates of macs
- decrease mac-armor or remove mac (emp halfed alien energy. What energy, there is no more energy in the game)
And this is only one example, you can do that with nearly every aspect of the game.
I think both sides can have higher tech way to fast. Marines have jp around 5 min, leap is up @ same time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played a gather yesterday and we had leap up around one minute in to the game IIRC. Although, I hear they're going to tie leap (and the other tier 2 abilities) to second hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1947949:date=Jun 30 2012, 12:30 PM:name=dePARA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dePARA @ Jun 30 2012, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens still have nothing vs jp and dont have a finisher. Thats the real problem right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What about lerk spikes? It's my go-to whenever I see jet packs. I haven't played fade enough in b212 to know how good it is against jp's without the swipe delay though.
<!--quoteo(post=1947949:date=Jun 30 2012, 12:30 PM:name=dePARA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dePARA @ Jun 30 2012, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really cant imagine how you want to balance the exo compare to current game-mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, to hell with nanoshield. On the other hand the exo isn't in the game yet, but if we're to make assumptions based on prio balance fixes UWE has made, it will be a horrible couple of patches.
210 dropped mine by an average of 9 FPS
I made the translation like everytime there is a changelog for the froncophonian poeple :
Ceci est la traduction du changelog en Francais pour ceux qui ne comprenne pas bien l'anglais :
Bonsoir
Voici le changelog traduit en francais pour vous faire une idée .
Changement importants.
Ajout d'une section "Mod" dans le menu principal.
Ajout d'un bouton "Play Now " pour etre connecter directement sur un server ns2
Carapace donne plus d'armure maintenant en contre partie vous etes plus lent
faisant que vous devez change votre facon de jouer et cela evite de simplement vous rendre plus skilled en tout circonstance.
Ajout du MAC EMP Explosion ( Recherchable sur la Robotics ) donnant le possibilité au MAC de faire perdre la moitié de l'energie stamina des aliens a proximité.
Lerk spike on changer pour devenir plus comme un shootgun spike.Leur son aussi a changer.
Nouveau Server Admin systeme visitez ici pour plus d'infos (merci Lance et PTs!)
La barre de Vie/Armure est maintenant constament visible par le commendant.
Changement sur Celerity pour etre plus comme sur NS1 cà d acceleration continue.
Shade Cloak camoufle les joueurs et Camouflage vous donne plus de liberte de mouvement quand il est actif.
Ajout de l'abilité Alien Comm : Infestation Spikes.
Le commandant MArine peut maintenant drop des mines et des welders à ces troupes.
EQUILIBRAGE
ARc ne font plus de degat maximum sur les cible etant a la limite de son champ de tir.
Augmentation de l'armure des MAC pour qu'ils puissent avoir une chance de survivre.
Cysts sont maintenant flammable et prene un bonus de degat si lance flamme sur eux.
Les grenades prennent maintenant 2.5 sec pour exploser.
Augmentation de la durée de l'umbra de 3sec a 5sec.
Les aliens on maintenant 4 spawn par vague de reinforcement.
Ink Heal and HAtch coutent maintenant 3Tres.Echo est aussi plus chere.
Balancage des aliens upgrade pour quelles ne soient pas tous de force egal a tout les moment du jeu.
Reduction du cout des shade et shift a 10Tres pour encourager leur utilisation.
LEs ressource arrivent moins vite il faut 7sec maintenant au lieu de 5sec.
On debute avec 20Pres maintenant.
Vitesse du welder reduite de 25%.
Suppression du delai apres avoir blink en fade pour pouvoir swipe les ennemis .
Changes.
Les ARC ne vise plus directement les oeuf aliens.
Les dommage collateraux des arc touche maintenant les structure amis et les arc .
Changement du marine buy menu pour etre plus facile et rapide ( 1 click buy ).
LE CC ne peut plus etre vortex.
Cyst ne prenne plus de dommage par les ARC.
Recycler une structure fantome ne rend plus toute les ress quelle coute.
Chengement des turret qui sont plus puissante quand des marines sont a proximite d'elle et moins puissante si non.Changement sur leur facon de viser aussi.
Chengement du temps de construction des turret a 6Sec.Reduction de leur vie/armure à 325/100.
FIX
FiX du message "Couldn't load shaders/EditorMaterial.fx" dans l'editor.
Fix ou certains caracteres etait mal transmis dans le display tweeter du menu principal.
Fix d'un bug ou HypêrMutation ne marchais pas correctement lors d'une entrer/sortie d'un hive.
Fix d'un bug ou certains joueurs entendais des sons reservés au commander.
Fix d'un bug ou le son de regen etais jouer continuelement meme la vie a fond.
Fix d'un bug des boutons du commander.
Fix d'un bug on l'ont pouvais utiliser des abilites non encore faite pour un petit moment quand la gestations etais fini.
Fix d'un bug ou un armslab vortexe ne respecter pas la hierarchie des technologies.
Fix d'un bug ou les marines vortexés pouvait etre affecte pas le bite poison du lerk.
Fix d'un bug ou les structures vortexées pouvaient etre construites.
Fix d'un bug ou les armes posé au sol etaients invisible au commandant.
Fix d'un crash de l'editeur a cause des ambiant lights.
Fix de l'exploit Hypermutation.
Fix du saccadement de la camera de l'onos.
Fix d'un probleme dans le heal spray ignorant LOS.
Fix de r_cull cvar ( active/desactive occlusion culling pour debugguage).
Fix d'un script error quand on essaye de recuperer l'arme d'un marines a terre.
Fix de differents script buggés en relation avec le choix du commander.
AMELIORATIONS.
Ajout dicones representant les amelioration et abilities disponibles des lifeforms dans le menu alien.
Ajout de l'icon de larms lab sur la minimap.
Ajout de notification sur les HUD des deux teams en rapport avec les upgrade effectue etc .
Les icones d'informations sur letat des upgrade en marines appararaissent maintenant en rouge si l'arms lab est detruit.
Si une hydra et tué le slot de construction pour le gorge et immediatement reatribué et il peut donc en reposer une instentanément sans en detruire une autre ou attendre .
Les serveur retourne en mod manuel de gestion des mods si steam est innaccesible.
Les spit du gorge sont paufiné.
NS2_docking
Ajout dune meilleur couverture sur Courtyard et Landing ( les containers entres autres ) .
Ajout de ventilation de Locker a Courtyard et de Stability a Maintenance.
Fix d'un collision gap dans landing pad qui vous laissait pouvoir sortir de la map.
Fix des lumieres en doublon des props en doublon et des RT et TechPoint en doublons dans Locker.
Fix d'un trou invisible dans la ventilation de Generator qui pouvais vous faire tomber dans la map.
Fix d'un endroit ou lon restait bloquer pres des tuyaux dans courtyard.
Deplacement de la RT de Terminal plus au Nord de la Fenetre ( celle qui est trouée).
Suppression de la porte de LOcker a Courtyard.
NS2_Tram
Fix des probleme d'occlusion dand ORe/Repair ventilation et le couloir connectant logistics et repair room.
Fix de quelque trous dans la map ou on pouvais voir le ciel.
Fix de probleme de bloquage dans la map ou sur des escalier.
Traduit pour NS2France par TUX
It feels like it's just there to make the skulk more effective at what it already does (run at stuff on the ground and bite it), instead of creating new opportunities.
You can't fight jetpacks with it because the height gain is so restricted. What happened to "player skill allowing you to overcome tech/economy disadvantages"?
Also, what's the deal with shadow step? When it didn't cost energy, it had a purpose because you wouldn't lose a 50 res lifeform to 1 flame particle hitting you at a bad time. Now that it costs energy, it seems to be nothing more than a mini-blink for when you haven't researched blink yet (unnecessary!) - you still get wrecked by some guy aimlessly touching you with a couple flame particles.
lol this quite clearly isn't the case. Marine jetpacks allow for poor skill to trump over high skilled aliens. Once they get grenades and flamers, there is no need for skill at all. Just mindlessly attacking the hive. Flamer jetpackers make it impossible for skulks and fades to get up to them.
They've also nullified the (small to begin with) skill ceiling on the onos with this cara change. Its slow, no chance to escape or to enter a fight. Its just big and dumb now. All you can do is attack the base and hope CC dies before you do when the commander beacons.
If this is a known problem, i am sorry. ;)
Anyway, you are doing a great job UWE!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Implement an arms lab equivalent (mutation chamber) for Kharaa. Let Kharaa tech armor(carapace), frenzy(attack speed) using the mutation chamber in the same way marines tech weapon damage and armor using the arms lab. Replace Carapace on the Crag tech hive with something else. An idea that comes to mind is additional damage absorption per bullet, or reduced damage while armor is up.
It solves the issue of making Crag hive first pick and the explosive power aliens receive at the beginning of the game from carapace. I can also help make Aliens not suck so much completely late game by having a stronger carapace (level 3). Not to mention carapace will also no longer require the need of a "trade-off" that becomes a balancing head-ache between alien lifeforms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
30/60/90 over the spam of 8 minutes is immensely better than the 80 armor explosion one minute into the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1948026:date=Jul 1 2012, 04:54 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jul 1 2012, 04:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948026"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->run at stuff on the ground and bite it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1948026:date=Jul 1 2012, 04:54 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jul 1 2012, 04:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948026"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ground<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is there anything about this quote that you would like to revise?
If this is a known problem, i am sorry. ;)
Anyway, you are doing a great job UWE!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Known bug that is impossible to reproduce!
IF you find a way to reproduce this PLEASE tell us, either on the forums or PM me or steam me etc!
We want to fix this annoying bug but have no clue how to reproduce it.. it seems random.
Thanks!
@Khyron: Dont use trace all as gorgeous suggested to test hitboxes/hitreg, only for the actual pattern of the shotgun/rounds. If you want to test the hitreg, just type the command hitreg in the console.. but i advise you not to do this in an online game with more than a few people, if possible. :) Remember: Blue is the only color that means there was a disagreement between the client and the server - what we would call a hitreg issue. The other two colors designate a hit or miss.
..no?
If an arc is unable to track an target (you see an arc shooting, but no damage around), the server is starting spamming lua-errors and die slowly.
Workaround: Dont use arcs :)
Edit:
Seem to be that turrets crashing the server.
New workaround: Dont use turrets AND arcs :D
The only to change it is to tape kill in console
Maybe it can help you
coincidentally, I don't see shifts made in pubs right now and I <i>certainly </i>don't see stuff being echoed to key locations to solve these problems
ARCs are too idiot proof still.
A long, drawn out game where both sides achieve all tech - aliens have 3 hives while mareins have 2 bases. The slow pres means that aliens cannot use onos very often, and marines are struggling to use grenade launchers and jetpacks.
In this situation, the commanders are the ones who are forced to try and end the game. Alien commander can whip rush, but that is hard and ultimately nullfied by what marine commanders have - ARCS.
The marine commander keeps sending 3-4 ARCS, and nanoshielding them all. The aliens cannot kill them before the hive is half dead, and most the supporting structures are dead long before. Aliens try to repair the hive, and rebuild the stuctures, but the marine commander just repeats this several more times until the alien hive is dead. Marines don't even need to help the ARCS.
Aliens heal stuff slowly, marines heal stuff very quickly. If the aliens attack and fail, they have lost several onos and the damage will be repaired in under a minute. The marine attacks slowly grind down the alien base, despite being poorly executed. This is not the way it should be.
TLDR Summary:
- Poor pres income has rendered aliens terrible endgame, since final assaults rely on pres while marines rely upon ARCS from tres.
- This is not fun for either side. Marines get bored using LMG and shotguns, aliens get bored of replacing structures.
- Marine assaults on alien bases takes a long time to repair. Alien assaults on marine bases take seconds to repair. This means poor marine assaults don't matter as long as they keep doing them. Alien assaults must be done with focus and teamwork.
We need less tres income, a bit more pres income, alien structure healing needs to be faster to almost marine levels and ARCs need a strong counter - either a shade ability that stops the commander scans, or drifter dampening field?