Why do the ARCs work in rooms where there is no power?
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Join Date: 2010-06-21 Member: 72122Members
Join Date: 2010-06-21 Member: 72122Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Ideas inside.</div>It would completely change the way you have to use ARCs if they would only work in a room with an active power grid; shifting it towards tactical team work instead of one rambo commander able to pull everything off alone. You can drive and deploy them everywhere but they won't be able to fire without an acitve power grid.
And for good reason as firing an arc uses massive amounts of energy, much more than an armory or sentry gun needs. Why do all the other structures require an active power grid but the ARC doesn't?
This also raises the question how much energy the power grid can deliver. It might not be enough for more than 4 ARCs at a time! Or maybe the energy gets distributed through all ARCs in a room but the more they are the weaker each one is.
Forseeable consequences of this change:
1. The Arc will be a managable threat to the Khaara as no matter how long the ARC train may be, it can be shut down by destroying one power node.
2. The power grid gets even more important; essentially shifting it more towards a central element of all area fights in the mid-late game. <i>Power on</i> means ARC attack, <i>power off</i> puts marines in a passive role defending ARCs while trying to get the power back on.
3. Limiting the number <b>or</b> power of ARCs by available energy per power node would put an end to endless ARC trains. It would also encourage tactical spreading of the ARCs to several adjacent rooms.
Things to figure out:
1. How many ARCs <b>or</b> how much attack power should one power node allow?
2.a How much damage per attack should one ARC be able to deliver if the maximum number of ARCs per power node is <i>n</i>?
2.b How many ARCs should one power node be able to power if the damage per attack for one ARC is <i>x</i>?
3. Should other structures in the room be affected by a firing ARC (lights flicker, structures are unpowerd for half a second)?
I hope this idea, if not useful, will at least bring some fresh air to the debate or inspire further thinking.
Thanks for reading :)
And for good reason as firing an arc uses massive amounts of energy, much more than an armory or sentry gun needs. Why do all the other structures require an active power grid but the ARC doesn't?
This also raises the question how much energy the power grid can deliver. It might not be enough for more than 4 ARCs at a time! Or maybe the energy gets distributed through all ARCs in a room but the more they are the weaker each one is.
Forseeable consequences of this change:
1. The Arc will be a managable threat to the Khaara as no matter how long the ARC train may be, it can be shut down by destroying one power node.
2. The power grid gets even more important; essentially shifting it more towards a central element of all area fights in the mid-late game. <i>Power on</i> means ARC attack, <i>power off</i> puts marines in a passive role defending ARCs while trying to get the power back on.
3. Limiting the number <b>or</b> power of ARCs by available energy per power node would put an end to endless ARC trains. It would also encourage tactical spreading of the ARCs to several adjacent rooms.
Things to figure out:
1. How many ARCs <b>or</b> how much attack power should one power node allow?
2.a How much damage per attack should one ARC be able to deliver if the maximum number of ARCs per power node is <i>n</i>?
2.b How many ARCs should one power node be able to power if the damage per attack for one ARC is <i>x</i>?
3. Should other structures in the room be affected by a firing ARC (lights flicker, structures are unpowerd for half a second)?
I hope this idea, if not useful, will at least bring some fresh air to the debate or inspire further thinking.
Thanks for reading :)
Comments
As for the concept of limiting the number supported by a power node, that'd just encourage people to park them on the boundaries between power zones (unless they use power packs for the rest). It'd end up being more annoying than tactical.
Neat idea to chew on.
The ARC is supposed to be a stalemate breaker for marines who cannot invade an adjacent room.
That is why they do not need power.
But it has turned into a bit of a spammable exploit for ending games.
The spikes they have coming might be a good enough counter to remove the ability to spam them.
To block or break the train apart so it can be destroyed.
They are most definitely in. And very very useful
Neat idea to chew on.
The ARC is supposed to be a stalemate breaker for marines who cannot invade an adjacent room.
That is why they do not need power.
But it has turned into a bit of a spammable exploit for ending games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adjacent means next too, not the same room.
So if the arcs are in an adjacent room they are in an area they should have cleared and been able to turn power on.
I never understood how arcs can simply roll through rooms without any power, they should be tied to the power circuit like everything else, seems like a bad oversight that they are not.
It would allow aliens a way to stop 5-6 arcs from firing and taking out the hive, the main issue with an arc train is that once you get about 4-5 arcs...that hives going down as aliens might get 2 or even 3 arcs down but not all 5-6 before the hives shot.
If there not going to tie arcs to the power grid then make then LoS so it seems atleast somewhat logical as to why they are not on the grid....they need something in the way of a trade-off/limitation.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The spikes they have coming might be a good enough counter to remove the ability to spam them.
To block or break the train apart so it can be destroyed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only if the spikes are immune to arcs...otherwise they are simply a delaying tactic (and presumably an expensive one as they wont last long against 4 arcs firing)
You park 1 or 2 arcs at the edge of your base...clear the adjacent room...turn on power...rinse, repeat till you get to Alien Hive...
option a, to have one alien attack and scout the marine base regulary - so we immediatly know when the arcs start moving - so we get plenty of time to kill those few marines guarding them (to deal with the arcs).
option b, (if you got a 2nd hive) you scout the marines, but instead of directly fighting them or the arcs - you set up a base rush... you start to attack when marines are nearly at the hive - you focus the obs(= no beacon) and then kill the CC.
The scout can try to weaken the obs a little - so later when the rushes happen, there is even less chance for a beacon to work.
option c, you dont ###### up early and midgame(keeping their amount of rts low) so marines wont even have res to build a big army of arcs.
option d, you get bilebomb and throw down a few whips on the way to slow marines down. 1 gorge damages the arcs while the rest of the team deal with the marines. (if you missed to scout early enough, this might be a good idea to do)
...
Every option needs your team to attack together, and not run in 1 by 1.
Also scouting is very important - if you only know that arcs are coming when they already start shooting on your hive... you gonna have a bad day.
Real problems:
- Mid/Late game structure spam is something different, its not about the arc anymore - its about the economy, which gets super spammy in ns2 because there are no big res sinks (compared to ns1 where weapons and lifeforms were tied to the tech economy)... aliens spam a ######ton of whips and chambers - while marines spam a ######ton of sentrys and arcs.
- also another problem is the current nanoshield spam, which makes it a lot harder to deal with marines protecting arcs.
Basically im saying that the arcs themself might not really be the problem that needs a lot of work or change.
You park 1 or 2 arcs at the edge of your base...clear the adjacent room...turn on power...rinse, repeat till you get to Alien Hive...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is less turtling that current, as it exposes the arcs longer, slows down the marines forcing them to take more ground slower.
The fact it takes them longer means there is less overall game time (as a %) spent turtled and more engaged in combat.
Currently they just turtle the train..then just rush the hive not even stopping to turn power back on in areas (or on for the first time).
The problem is that arcs are units and not structures, they only need a commander to work, so even though the marine team as worse coordination than the alien team, arc push still works.
Solution, arcs require coordination from the marine team, for example getting them deployed by the marines.
But powerpacks or powernodes O_o... some alien hives need the arcs to nearly get into los of the hive, or at least very far into the room - so there is no way to power them with powerpacks (you cant place structures on infestation, and it takes way too long to wait until the infestation dissappears after destroying a cyst... needing marines run to the powernode of the hive room and build it can be an impossible task to do... you can place whips around it, aliens are in the room, gorges can cover the powernode in clogs and hydras etc...)
edit: While whips are not as strong as arcs(actually its not that bad in theory, bombard is a ranged attack but requires los), they also dont really need any coordination of the alien team to use ... wouldnt they also need such a system? They are units too... (cyst spam into the room + whips rushing in + a pack of aliens moving in - can be as difficult to deal with)
I do think having ARCs have to be deployed by marines is the best balance. It would require a team effort to escort and deploy a train.
Having ARCs require LoS is another interesting point... I would think that would make ARCs need a lot more defense by marines in order to make it that far in.
*Sigh* ARCs are just such a tough thing to balance...