<!--quoteo(post=1945475:date=Jun 21 2012, 02:26 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Jun 21 2012, 02:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1945475"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is normal aggressive gameplay in any capture-point-based game. Generally the team with the stronger offense hits the enemy in more places faster than they can defend. The defenders are forced to try to scramble to defend or are pressed into attacking harder than the opposition. The team that wins is the one that kills more bases than they lose, and in general winds up with the greater net resource gain. Battlefield is a great example - it's very hard to defend a capture point, so more often than not, the team with the best coordinated attacks between squads will be the winner.
The ultimate culmination for marines at this point in beta is either the ARC train, or if you have less total res, spam meds + ammo + shield on a JP marine with a grenade launcher.
Generally, I prefer the attacking and trading bases MUCH more than turtling and defending. Not only does it feel like you're doing more, but like so many people say, it's no fun to fight tons of turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I also like the base too and fro but currently this is not what we see, only games I have seen this the comm wasn't using arcs (aussies idea of sh1ts and giggles). What we see is aliens holding then losing territory, which has a big impact as with hives it limits whether you can have cara and regen or if its a decision between the two. Marines have no bonus for holding ground (other than res...which is same for both sides so ignored) and really dont need to until they are teched up.
You say its aggressive game play, I say its a negative gamestyle where marines dont care about map control just simply having enough res to get arcs up. As a consequence they dont bother defending the res towers (waste of res and delays getting arcs) as they know once they have 2-3 arcs they can just start pushing out from their spawn. Aliens have aggressive game play as they have to get a 2nd and 3rd hive to be able to compete (2 hives allows for cara and regen), marines can get 15 arcs with just the one tech point. By tying tech points to arc numbers we will force the marines to take and hold tech points for themselves not simply play denial with aliens. This in turn will mean we see more sentries being used as the 2nd tech point becomes crucial to getting more arcs so the comm will have an incentive to having a 2nd tech point (or even a third!). NS is not battlefield, neither side has anything to gain "boost" wise from holding ground in battlefield, in NS the aliens do and arguably so should the marines. If straight out offence is the key with is this not how tf was played in the capture the flag games? Because there was a trade off to losing something from your team.
Just modify Bile Bomb. Make it so it stick to the ARC, slowing it down by like 50% in movement and firing speed (because Bile bomb mess with the radio frequency of the ARC, or whatever reason). To remove the bile, a marine next to it can "clean it up" using E with the welder or the construction tool. A clean up could take like 4 seconds. Fast enough so you clean up without being much of a hassle, but slow enough for Bile bomb to be faster than cleaning up. You need to take out the Gorge first.
No marines near the ARC? Watch your almost useless ARC get eaten for nothing.
Need a gorge? What a great use for hyper-mutation!
And if there's an ARC train of 20 ARC, well, good luck for the marines cleaning the ARCs while defending themselves. Don't forget that since Bile bomb is splash damage, it will be easier for aliens to bile the ARC than for marines to clean them. Or you could use less ARC, but position them in a strategic way, so they don't get all bile bombed in one shot.
The_CheatIt's a The Cheat!Join Date: 2003-11-19Member: 23191Members, Constellation
I do like the idea of giving ARC trains a weakness e.g. gorge Bile Bomb, but I ultimately don't agree with leaving the ability to construct the train in the game. I like the ideas of limiting the number of ARCs based on techpoints and increasing their health, armor, and power somewhat. This has the potential to create a full-blown escort mission mid-to-late game for marines and could provide tension similar to hive sieges in NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=1944979:date=Jun 19 2012, 03:00 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Jun 19 2012, 03:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or you could look at why a situation arose in which an alien khammander was able to spend 300 tres on 100 drifters without losing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly, winning the game or being in an overwhelmingly superior position should not suddenly grant one team's commander the ability to drag down players' or the server's performance to such an extent. I experienced a similar thing with the Drifters spam and I literally dropped to 1 FPS until one of our players with a GL came back and one-shot them all. My system is running top-end hardware. There's simply no reason to leave this capability in the game.
Comments
Battlefield is a great example - it's very hard to defend a capture point, so more often than not, the team with the best coordinated attacks between squads will be the winner.
The ultimate culmination for marines at this point in beta is either the ARC train, or if you have less total res, spam meds + ammo + shield on a JP marine with a grenade launcher.
Generally, I prefer the attacking and trading bases MUCH more than turtling and defending. Not only does it feel like you're doing more, but like so many people say, it's no fun to fight tons of turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also like the base too and fro but currently this is not what we see, only games I have seen this the comm wasn't using arcs (aussies idea of sh1ts and giggles). What we see is aliens holding then losing territory, which has a big impact as with hives it limits whether you can have cara and regen or if its a decision between the two.
Marines have no bonus for holding ground (other than res...which is same for both sides so ignored) and really dont need to until they are teched up.
You say its aggressive game play, I say its a negative gamestyle where marines dont care about map control just simply having enough res to get arcs up.
As a consequence they dont bother defending the res towers (waste of res and delays getting arcs) as they know once they have 2-3 arcs they can just start pushing out from their spawn.
Aliens have aggressive game play as they have to get a 2nd and 3rd hive to be able to compete (2 hives allows for cara and regen), marines can get 15 arcs with just the one tech point.
By tying tech points to arc numbers we will force the marines to take and hold tech points for themselves not simply play denial with aliens.
This in turn will mean we see more sentries being used as the 2nd tech point becomes crucial to getting more arcs so the comm will have an incentive to having a 2nd tech point (or even a third!).
NS is not battlefield, neither side has anything to gain "boost" wise from holding ground in battlefield, in NS the aliens do and arguably so should the marines.
If straight out offence is the key with is this not how tf was played in the capture the flag games? Because there was a trade off to losing something from your team.
No marines near the ARC? Watch your almost useless ARC get eaten for nothing.
Need a gorge? What a great use for hyper-mutation!
And if there's an ARC train of 20 ARC, well, good luck for the marines cleaning the ARCs while defending themselves. Don't forget that since Bile bomb is splash damage, it will be easier for aliens to bile the ARC than for marines to clean them. Or you could use less ARC, but position them in a strategic way, so they don't get all bile bombed in one shot.
<!--quoteo(post=1944979:date=Jun 19 2012, 03:00 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Jun 19 2012, 03:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or you could look at why a situation arose in which an alien khammander was able to spend 300 tres on 100 drifters without losing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly, winning the game or being in an overwhelmingly superior position should not suddenly grant one team's commander the ability to drag down players' or the server's performance to such an extent. I experienced a similar thing with the Drifters spam and I literally dropped to 1 FPS until one of our players with a GL came back and one-shot them all. My system is running top-end hardware. There's simply no reason to leave this capability in the game.
You can't take certain 'routes' and even if you do, you can quickly turn around on them.