So, do you like Lerk Poison bite?

Mestaritonttu

Marine: I got bit. Soon I'm going to be as good as dead, and I can't do anything about it. (ಠ_ಠ)p
Comm: It's like giving medpacks to parasited marines, except compulsory. (ಠ_ಠ)p
Lerk: I got him! But did he get a medpack? I can't tell! I wish he'd groan in agony or something! (ಠ_ಠ)p

Since I gave none thumbs up, I guess I oughta suggest something: Lerk bite - 1/3 skulk biting power, 80% movement snare for 5 seconds - bite a marine, fart gass around him, watch him choke to death. I know someone's M&M's are rolling on the keyboard because a snare was mentioned, but I just love combos and that's the only one I could come up with.

You?

IeptBarakat

How about give lerk the focus bite equivalent of attack power and attack speed. Which compared to this build he'd mostly just have slower attack speed.

Namm

I think the Lerks poison bite is a bit unintuitive currently and to similar to every other attack (especially Skulk bite). All the other lifeforms have one attack that damages players. Lerks on the other hand have two ways to (effectively) kill players, which I suspect will result in endless balancing. Either bite will be the main attack, or spikes (if available). I wrote in some other thread that poison bite should a) deal small direct damage, b) make the affected Marine more vulnerable to other forms of damage and c) mark the victim for the duration of the effect. Medpacks shouldn't be an antidote. Generally this would give the Lerk the ability to "select" a target for the rest of the team to focus on, or make a poisioned Marine easier to kill with spores and spikes.

DJPenguin

not a fan of the poison effect at all. get bit once and welp back to the armory i go with my inevitable 5 hp. maybe it's just my dislike of DOT effects from mmo's.

Pistachio

Bite has really propelled the lerk into the front lines of battle.

I had more fun hiding in vents and on ceilings waiting for opportunities to swoop in and gas, or harass marine teams with spike.

Corpsey

I thought it was overpowered currently though? like there is a bug where it is doing skulk damage instead of.. some other damage it's supposed to have.

1dominator1

It is unimaginably lame as a marine but fun as a lerk.

TheIcarusKid

<!--quoteo(post=1943288:date=Jun 14 2012, 08:27 AM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Jun 14 2012, 08:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943288"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->not a fan of the poison effect at all. get bit once and welp back to the armory i go with my inevitable 5 hp. maybe it's just my dislike of DOT effects from mmo's.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, with medpacks being 'free', a twitchy comm can stay on the front lines medspamming nonstop as long as he has 2 command stations.

Zomb3h

I've no complaints with the Poison Bite.

I can't see a Lerk surviving a group of Marines if it tried to Bite em (unless the exceptional few who know how to fly).

You guys make it seem like it's not counterable....unlike the Jetpacks vs. Fades.

GORGEous

I dislike lerk bite. I thought the spikes were a much better approach for the lerk.

That said, b209 lerk is very overpowered. In b210, hopefully the shotgun is fixed (so it's actually usable again) and the lerk bite is fixed. Lerk bite doing skulk damage is effectively double the damage it should be doing. Lerk bite fixed + shotgun fixed should result in a balanced lerk. Perhaps even underpowered.

kingmob

I like the bite as the lerk .... but i haven't seen the poison really
I just end up biting a lot.

rhombus

<!--quoteo(post=1943461:date=Jun 14 2012, 09:34 PM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingmob @ Jun 14 2012, 09:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943461"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the bite as the lerk .... but i haven't seen the poison really
I just end up biting a lot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


If you have alien vision on all the time the poison effects won't show up.

Mestaritonttu

We're in beta so balance is obviously under constant scrutiny, I was more interested on people's thoughts about the concept of Poison bite, aka the DoT. (Damage over Time)

hakenspit

<!--quoteo(post=1943467:date=Jun 15 2012, 01:13 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Jun 15 2012, 01:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943467"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you have alien vision on all the time the poison effects won't show up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually it does still show up...but the rivers of blood on your screen are green...either that or I just randomly get that effect on my screen due to a gfx glitch (I use alien vision a lot to see through gas clouds when lerking).

Yuuki

I fail to imagine how a green splash on your screen is supposed to convey the idea that biting with the lerk does poison damage over time to a new player. This one of this things you need to read the forums to know about.

The best would probably be to have some sound coming from the poisoned marine.

Personally I don't like poison bite, it just feels unnecessary and a bit cheesy, like in a cheap mmo.

elodea

<!--quoteo(post=1943471:date=Jun 15 2012, 12:34 PM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Jun 15 2012, 12:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943471"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We're in beta so balance is obviously under constant scrutiny, I was more interested on people's thoughts about the concept of Poison bite, aka the DoT. (Damage over Time)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

i think its ok if you try not to think about it being a cheesy mechanic. It might be something we need to get used to... maybe.

Design wise however, theres a big problem that alot of people have pointed out already. It amplifies the <b>unfun</b> of playing under commanders who don't regularly med/ammo or drop armouries. Competitive games shouldn't see the issue, but its inherently not a 'fun adding' mechanic in pub games.

_Necro_

I like the concept of poison bite. Especially because I haven't heard any other idea, that keeps the harassing nature of the lerk and doesn't make him to a killer class like the others (beside gorge). I don't even get the critics about the need of medpacks. It is no difference in being bitten two times by a skulk or poisoned by the lerk or being wounded by any other alien. You end up nearly dead and need to go back to the armory if you have a deaf com. Nothing that changes lerk bite here.

The lerks role as harasser is unique. (Not talking about the bug that it makes too much damage right now.) Most of the other alien classes haven't such a unique role. Most ideas I read, is giving him a weapon with which he can more easily kill a marine. This would take away his unique role and make him to one of the other aliens, beside that he is flying. I find that boring.

PersianImm0rtal

I hate lerk bite, it makes the play style too similar to other aliens, and its OP.

serpico

I do think the idea of combos is cool, but I do think there is already one there somewhat in that you can gas a marine to obscure visibility and use that to get close up more safely and bite him. A movement snare would be too good when attacking together with skulks.

I think the best way to keep Lerk from being a flying skulk would be to make the initial bite damage very low and have the DOT be non-stackable (is it already? not sure). As is, I often just stay on the marine and keep biting him like a skulk would because they go down fast that way. I think what the dev's had in mind was for the lerk to do a bite and escape, which isn't really how a lot of people are using it right now.

Doppy

YES, but right now the bite is a little overpowered. I do like the idea of swooping in, taking a bite, and then getting out again. It sort of reminds me of Bile Bombing the Marine's base (It definitely makes up for that change).

The combination of the Bite DOT + Gas makes the Lerk just as much fun as he was when he had Bile Bomb.

Also, I'm really big on taking down Res Towers. So adding Bite to the Lerk has made it even easier for me to do so. No longer do I have to rely on my team to take down RTs.

Xarius

I preferred spike personally, and wish they'd just stick with that as a main attack. Both are just too similar in role, and bite is too similar to skulk bite on top of that. I definitely appreciate them trying this out again, but this is one of those NS 1 features that I think we could easily do without. Stick with spikes and come up with something else for T2 IMO. (Maybe poison effect on spikes for T2? That wouldn't be a new ability per se, but it would considerably up the effectiveness for late game and even be viable as an early lerk unlock.)

rhombus

<!--quoteo(post=1943518:date=Jun 15 2012, 05:16 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Jun 15 2012, 05:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943518"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I fail to imagine how a green splash on your screen is supposed to convey the idea that biting with the lerk does poison damage over time to a new player. This one of this things you need to read the forums to know about.

The best would probably be to have some sound coming from the poisoned marine.

Personally I don't like poison bite, it just feels unnecessary and a bit cheesy, like in a cheap mmo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Considering that medpacks are pretty much a hard counter to poison I dislike it also.

Persian the damage was broken - as stated so many times in this forum.

Zek

<!--quoteo(post=1943467:date=Jun 14 2012, 09:13 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Jun 14 2012, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943467"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you have alien vision on all the time the poison effects won't show up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that's a problem because using alien vision is a no-brainer in combat.

The 210 poison bite is still very unintuitive because when you first go Lerk and try out your attack, it just looks like an ordinary bite. Nobody would think that it's poisonous. There should be a noticeable poison effect in your mouth even if you're not biting anything so that the player can deduce what it does. Just a placeholder mini spore cloud or something would do the trick.

fanatic

<!--quoteo(post=1943661:date=Jun 16 2012, 02:39 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jun 16 2012, 02:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There should be a noticeable poison effect in your mouth even if you're not biting anything so that the player can deduce what it does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or maybe they could just stop wasting any more time on an obviously broken and unwanted feature.

MisterNubs

<!--quoteo(post=1943804:date=Jun 16 2012, 09:22 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jun 16 2012, 09:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943804"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or maybe they could just stop wasting any more time on an obviously broken and unwanted feature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

While I still prefer bite, poison bite isn't intuitive.

Simply removing poison and turning lerk bite into a "focus" bite a la NS1 with a long delay between each bite will still force lerks into a harasser role.

Yuuki

I think the biggest problem is that it hurt new players and public play, since it's specially bad if your commander is not dropping medpacks. In more organized play it's doesn't do much as you get a medpack rapidly.

crypt

<!--quoteo(post=1943826:date=Jun 16 2012, 10:39 AM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Jun 16 2012, 10:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943826"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I still prefer bite, poison bite isn't intuitive.

Simply removing poison and turning lerk bite into a "focus" bite a la NS1 with a long delay between each bite will still force lerks into a harasser role.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds good to me, but I'm no good lerk so other might have better input if it would work. If they want to add an effect to make it different from bite, how about healing yourself with each successful hit (I think the devs talked about a vampiric effect before)?

As an alternative I still like the idea of the spike-shotgun, which I remember fana mentioned in the past in a simliar thread.

fanatic

<!--quoteo(post=1943911:date=Jun 16 2012, 07:55 PM:name=crypt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crypt @ Jun 16 2012, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As an alternative I still like the idea of the spike-shotgun, which I remember fana mentioned in the past in a simliar thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would prefer a burst-fire model actually, but shotgun should work too. In either case it should have a wide cone of fire, slow rate of fire (similar to the b209 bite) and a damage output slightly lower than the b209 bite.

It would need significant testing to get the numbers right though -- but probably pointless to try to balance until client/server performance increases.

Hell, it hasn't even been tried properly, so who knows if it'll even work. With the bite model at least we know it's possible to make it work since we have NS1 experiences to build on. I think this is one of those areas where NS1 had some issues though. The bite model was absolutely terrifying for new players, and still is in NS2.

MisterNubs

<!--quoteo(post=1943911:date=Jun 16 2012, 02:55 PM:name=crypt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crypt @ Jun 16 2012, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds good to me, but I'm no good lerk so other might have better input if it would work. If they want to add an effect to make it different from bite, how about healing yourself with each successful hit (I think the devs talked about a vampiric effect before)?

As an alternative I still like the idea of the spike-shotgun, which I remember fana mentioned in the past in a simliar thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Adding a vampiric effect to lerk bite will just give them a reason to make the bite damage garbage. Just like it is now with the poison effect making the bite do garage damage. And the poison completely useless with medpack spam now.

Like I said, turn lerk bite into a focus bite a la NS1. Turn the lmg spikes into a shotgun spikes (or burst fire). Add a blasted last weapon key for heavens sake. Allow lerks to combo bite -> shotgun spike (shotgun spike -> bite).

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Persian the damage was broken - as stated so many times in this forum.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And what makes this hilarious is now the lerk is completely broken in 210. The marine tech explosion makes lerks outclassed quickly, then completely useless late game.

rhombus

<!--quoteo(post=1943958:date=Jun 16 2012, 05:41 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Jun 16 2012, 05:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943958"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding a vampiric effect to lerk bite will just give them a reason to make the bite damage garbage. Just like it is now with the poison effect making the bite do garage damage. And the poison completely useless with medpack spam now.

Like I said, turn lerk bite into a focus bite a la NS1. Turn the lmg spikes into a shotgun spikes (or burst fire). Add a blasted last weapon key for heavens sake. Allow lerks to combo bite -> shotgun spike (shotgun spike -> bite).



And what makes this hilarious is now the lerk is completely broken in 210. The marine tech explosion makes lerks outclassed quickly, then completely useless late game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Bite, yes. Spikes, no. Since they're puncture damage (does more to Marines) I can still go 33-2 in an entire round using it as my main weapon. After 6 minutes into the game I stop using bite altogether.. which is bad.

schkorpio

i like the poison bite for one reason:

it means that spikes are an upgrades, which means that spikes are fairly powerful (as a harrasment weapon).