5 minute onos rush >_>
Wheeee
Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">with hypermutation</div>so, the khamm can evolve a free lifeform egg early on (lerk usually) and a player can get into the egg, evolve hypermutation, and devolve into a skulk, receiving free 30 res. this means that even before fades usually come out, onos are available. can we please take another look at hypermutation? current implementation has a lot of bad side effects.
Comments
Couldn't you technically get much faster than 5min as well? like, within minutes of game start via switching out comms and making multiple gorge/lerk eggs and coordinating which person grabs the res?
You could get fade/onos before marines even expand their 3rd RT or have a chance to build an armslab. lol.
no seriously, in a 6v6 4 players could give the other 2 players 4x30 res
that's 60 + 25 + some time = BAM 2 onos around first arms upg
new competitive strat? gotta try it out tonight YOU PRO TEAMS !!!!!!!!!!
it's too powerful. onos are ridonculously strong vs unupgraded marines. in a 6v6 you could immediately go onos since (assuming ~10s per gorge evolve/hypermutate devolve cycle), you could have 3 people contribute 20/20/10 res in gorge eggs and you'd pop out ~1 minute into the game. then the remaining 2 non-contributors would have 30 res each, have them give lerk eggs to the guy who only gave 10, which gives him enough for a 2nd onos. 2 onos in less than 2 minutes. you'd have 2 onos, 2 people with enough res to go gorge, and 2 skulks. all with only expending enough res on the alien side to research hypermutation, which would leave enough for stomp.
Wheeee
keep upgrades consistently simple imo.
We were slow with it. It could be done in maybe 3min 30 sec, optimally. We did gain some map control, but failed to really capitalize on it, as we left your sub and vent RTs up for at least extra 2 minutes. The biggest problem with the hypermutation gimmick is that you don't get cara/regen. Even though we have played regen fades a lot, it still was somewhat difficult to be really effective with the shift hive fades. This and your good pressure slowed us down, so 2nd hive came a bit late -> you had good time to upgrade, and our initial hypermutation exploit wasn't fully succesful. Then again, the main purpose of it was to show that exploit in live stream and hopefully get it fixed ;)
Oh, and thanks for the games again. GGs WPs ;)
EDIT: The hypermutation gimmick does have to be planned and explained before the game and then, during the game, the whole team has to coordinate well for the PRes transactions. We had all our guys pull back and then the egg-recipient would kill himself. This takes some arranging and means we can't risk dying for a while. We did this 3 times during the round. IIRC the plan was to hypermutate onos and fade and get another fade and a lerk with normal res gain. This was a fairly conservative build, as there is the possiblity of 3 celerity onoses at the powernode / CC in 4-5mins.
keep upgrades consistently simple imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No opinion on hyper mutation, but just responding to your point here, i dont think its that big of a deal considering:
The "Save money to upgrade" part is the "easy to learn" and
The "Exploit/coordinate with team/ use other than intended" part is the "difficult to master"
I.e. not all depths of the game need to be explained or easy to understand, just the basics. I think there's some enjoyment in figuring out how many bites it takes to skulk a marine vs how many with parasite first etc etc.
The "Save money to upgrade" part is the "easy to learn" and
The "Exploit/coordinate with team/ use other than intended" part is the "difficult to master"
I.e. not all depths of the game need to be explained or easy to understand, just the basics. I think there's some enjoyment in figuring out how many bites it takes to skulk a marine vs how many with parasite first etc etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry Ironhorse, I think DJPenguin is right on this one. The key note is: ,,Keep upgrades consistent and simple".
Complexity or inaccessibility actually has no connection to depth. Hypermutation actually adds no depth to the game, things that are not obvious do not necessary add any depth to the gameplay. That includes information gathering. Depth is connected to how much the game can develop after the players already all the facts, its what keeps the gameplay interesting even after years of playing.
With that in consideration I don't think I need to point anything else out.
On topic:
I'm sure that it was not intended for the hypermutation to allow lifeforms that early, I'm sure that will be fixed next patch. It feels like an exploit.
It's silly if you're a Kharaa, it's gamebreaking and frustrating if you're a Marine :( . This happened on mineshaft last night and there were 2 onos at the 3 minute mark and even without stomp they devastated us and although it took them 15 more minutes to end the game it was clear we were going to lose after about 5.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if you want a guy to make use of a commander-upgraded egg, can't you just +use the egg?
Mineshaft is a poor example, since in it marines have to come through either of 2 choke points (tram / belt transfer) to get to the aliens. Having a map with a layout controllable by 2 choke points is bad enough, but in addition the aliens have 3 tech points and 5 res nodes to expand to behind those 2 choke points. Terrible balance.
That being said, two onoses at 3-5 minutes is quite hard to counter in any map.
Is that possible? Really? I had no idea... We took those eggs by suiciding and making sure only the recipient was dead at the time. If +using the egg indeed is enough, this gimmick becomes even easier to pull off...
Sadly, you can get such an egg by respawning. Leading to many rage on pubs, because of noobs getting an egg they don't want (like gorge) and re-evolving to skulk. Leaving a furious Kham.