Celerity needs 1 thing and ONE thing only :)
oldassgamers
Join Date: 2011-02-02 Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2011-02-02 Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
At current beta stage it allows alien to fast travel through the map in out of combat. But it doesn't boost up the combat itself, comparing to a crag hive which gives armor and regen.
Why not adding faster movement (exaclly like ns1) for celerity? Giving it a better perpuse :)
What ya guys think?
Why not adding faster movement (exaclly like ns1) for celerity? Giving it a better perpuse :)
What ya guys think?
Comments
Now im not going overboard and saying remove it or something, but it definately needs some tweaking atleast on the skulk.
You can click on the map, and set waypoint. Then press forward and you auto move to that location. (not teleport but it steers you there )
I dont know the maps good enough to travel 100mph through em.
Skulking is all about using movement and map geometry to get close to the marines. The dev's spent a lot of time to tune skulk movement, speed, air control, introducing wall jump to make it scale with the skill of the player.
Now you introduce celerity which completely out-compete all of this. Basically celerity nullify all the effort spent on skulk movement and hurts the basic principle of melee vs range.
Celerity needs to synergize with other movement mechanics, to enhance them, not to compete with them. Skulk movement is defined by like 20 parameters: max speed, friction, air control, air strafe strength, speed bonus on wall jump, etc. What celerity needs to do is to modify those (e.g. +10% max speed and +5% air control).
my sentiment as well. i'm not a fan of it because it completely negates a weakness of the gorge and onos.
Probably just needs the numbers tweaked. Even gorges and onos can't run away if they're currently being shot at.
I feel the same way about carapace - if it was a little bit weaker, it wouldn't be an upgrade that you simply can't live without for certain lifeforms.
Yes, the same is true for blink+shadowstep. Celerity is fun to play with: bile bomb rush marine main, bite marine ass before they can even realize, but it's a piece of fun that doesn't fit with the rest of the game.
I also think the order of magnitude of the change it needs doesn't qualify as "just numbers tweak".
If you are Gorge and you are running through a load of marines, as soon as you are shot you slow. Then you are basically dead.
Skulk is the same, but it is easier to rush into marines leaving them completely unawares.
To solve this, all it needs is a 'woooshing' air sound so that you know they are coming. At least to give a little warning.
Currently I think it is really balanced, because it helps players traverse the map whilst giving no real combat advantage.
I still always see crag as first choice though.
However, the NS1 method might actually be a decent alternative to cara/regen.
Whereas in NS1 where celerity works the way he suggested, celerity is pretty balanced and easy to tweak (balance-wise). Here's why:
<ul><li>it costs players money</li><li>it precludes getting the other movement chamber upgrades</li></ul>
When given the choice between "flat speed boost" and "complicated speed boost", the first attempt should always be the flat speed boost. It's a better way to see how "variable-speed aliens" works in NS2 compared to NS1. It's intuitive that the old celerity system should work in this game, but does anyone know for sure? We could be wrong about it, or we could all have our backs turned to another great simple idea. I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but a public build where celerity gives a flat speed boost would go a long way toward making the final result <b>good</b>, whether or not it's a flat speed boost.
The majority of the feedback this build is generating is "celerity is OP holy cow!", and that's not terribly useful.
<!--quoteo(post=1940886:date=Jun 1 2012, 04:55 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Jun 1 2012, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940886"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Celerity is essentially primarily a replacement for NS1' Hive travel to be honest<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it is, it's a really poor replacement. You still have to run through the parts of the map where you're vulnerable, and spend lots of time doing so. You also can't use celerity to appear at a newly-placed hive and fight for control of the area (a classic NS1 play). There's really no comparison between the two abilities, I think...
<!--quoteo(post=1940865:date=Jun 1 2012, 02:44 PM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Jun 1 2012, 02:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1940865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->my sentiment as well. i'm not a fan of it because it completely negates a weakness of the gorge and onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this can be tweaked with numbers changes (as stated above), but it's also important to consider the main design goals of the aliens:
they're <i>all </i>supposed to have movement abilities and/or "ways to become fast", even the onos and gorge. that's what bellyslide and charge are for, and celerity allows it to be exaggerated (like for the skulk even though it has leap, fade even though it has blink etc)
QFT, very well said!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8haGR2cG94w" target="_blank">ALIENS ON CRACK</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8haGR2cG94w" target="_blank">ALIENS ON CRACK</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YES
::headbangs::
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8haGR2cG94w" target="_blank">ALIENS ON CRACK</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Awwww i loved that game!
You can click on the map, and set waypoint. Then press forward and you auto move to that location. (not teleport but it steers you there )
I dont know the maps good enough to travel 100mph through em.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was that a joke..?
You mean something like....
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_U85PQYAF4s"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_U85PQYAF4s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
But as you see, the lag problem is not solved when adding a celerity sound :D
What? sorry the old movement chambers allowed you to instantly move between hives if you "used" them, you still had celerity in NS1 even with the movement chambers. The current celerity does nothing like the old MC's hive jumping.
Aliens are melee focused, meaning they need to get up close and personal. With the design of the maps they need a way to cover large distances to get up close.
Celerity does this well, if they get shot at all their speed drops back down and it does not help them in actual combat (though increases chances of a skulk getting close enough to attempt to bite).
Sure the skulks can come flying down a passage leaving you little chance to defeat him if your by yourself.
This is a great balance, a lone marine should not be able to take down a skulk without the skulk getting a chance to even lay 1 bite down.
Celerity is good, its a viable option for 1st hive to compete with crag..though still needs a little work as crag is still the dominant one.
Aliens are melee focused, meaning they need to get up close and personal. With the design of the maps they need a way to cover large distances to get up close.
Celerity does this well, if they get shot at all their speed drops back down and it does not help them in actual combat (though increases chances of a skulk getting close enough to attempt to bite).
Sure the skulks can come flying down a passage leaving you little chance to defeat him if your by yourself.
This is a great balance, a lone marine should not be able to take down a skulk without the skulk getting a chance to even lay 1 bite down.
Celerity is good, its a viable option for 1st hive to compete with crag..though still needs a little work as crag is still the dominant one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
God, no.
Celerity is currently giving a huge combat advantage to skulks. You almost always close the gap before the marine even realizes that you're there. Even when the marine realizes that you're there, you've already entered combat at ~15 speed. If you're jumping or wall hopping, you hardly lose any speed (if you're even shot in the first place). There are many situations where you can back out of combat for a few seconds, get back up to 15 speed, and reengage. Every time you disengage, you're effectively given a no-skill-required gap closer that transfers into a huge combat advantage. Celerity is a broken gimmick. It needs a complete revision because the current implementation is simply silly.
If celerity were a simple travel mechanism (it's not, don't kid yourself) then it might be alright going that fast. I doubt it though. I think even this would most likely be overpowered, but it might I might actually have to think about it. b209 celerity is a no-brainer, though. It's broken.
Celerity is currently giving a huge combat advantage to skulks. You almost always close the gap before the marine even realizes that you're there. Even when the marine realizes that you're there, you've already entered combat at ~15 speed. If you're jumping or wall hopping, you hardly lose any speed (if you're even shot in the first place). There are many situations where you can back out of combat for a few seconds, get back up to 15 speed, and reengage. Every time you disengage, you're effectively given a no-skill-required gap closer that transfers into a huge combat advantage. Celerity is a broken gimmick. It needs a complete revision because the current implementation is simply silly.
If celerity were a simple travel mechanism (it's not, don't kid yourself) then it might be alright going that fast. I doubt it though. I think even this would most likely be overpowered, but it might I might actually have to think about it. b209 celerity is a no-brainer, though. It's broken.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you, this is exactly how I feel.
If there is a feature that lets you travel between hives, make it TAKE YOU TO THE HIVE, not give free reign to hit any point of the map at blazing speed.
Devs/playtesters keep saying this is not a combat ability... that makes as much sense as saying cloaking is not a combat ability. Something that allows you to get the complete drop on a marine and almost always nets the first hit is practically designed for use in combat. It takes away every advantage marines have with ranged weapons, and reduces the sneaky skulk to even more of a kamikaze with no skillful movement involved.
Proper NS gameplay means that it's both, and marines can fight it anyway. Right now we've got one of those two conditions...be patient :)
"Ambushing" and "sneaking" is inherently much less skilled than conventional bread and butter aim/movement (that defines the NS1 aliens), too...I'd prefer if the game leans on that more than sitting behind props or using camouflage.
Celerity is currently giving a huge combat advantage to skulks. You almost always close the gap before the marine even realizes that you're there. Even when the marine realizes that you're there, you've already entered combat at ~15 speed. If you're jumping or wall hopping, you hardly lose any speed (if you're even shot in the first place). There are many situations where you can back out of combat for a few seconds, get back up to 15 speed, and reengage. Every time you disengage, you're effectively given a no-skill-required gap closer that transfers into a huge combat advantage. Celerity is a broken gimmick. It needs a complete revision because the current implementation is simply silly.
If celerity were a simple travel mechanism (it's not, don't kid yourself) then it might be alright going that fast. I doubt it though. I think even this would most likely be overpowered, but it might I might actually have to think about it. b209 celerity is a no-brainer, though. It's broken.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Carapace also gives aliens a huge advantage over vanilla skulks.
This is an alternative that means instead of really tough aliens you have really fast aliens instead, so they are easier to kill you just need to hit them.
Aliens now might go something other than crag for first hive as celerity offers a way to get the battle with marines on aliens terms without having to rely on cara to provide enough armor/hp.
Given the limited number of traits an alien can have this means they are trading off either cara, regen or both to have this trait especially early in game.
Celerity was used in NS1 and was very similar to how its been implemented here (only thing is in NS1 it was a straight speed upgrade, this model is an increasing increase so it does not offer the same initial speed gains and reduces effective speed in combat compared to NS1 model)
Marines cant rely solely on ranged weapons, they also need teamwork..celerity skulks just makes this more obvious. Where previously the long passageway was the savior of the lone marine...with celerity its no longer the safe situation. A celerity skulk can now make it down that passage and get close enough to bite the marine.
Except pure balance changes (decrease Celerity speed so much for that and that lifeform...) Celerity should generate a sound, but maybe not meep-meep. :) Some warning for the Marines though. Also, being damaged while in Celerity mode could make the Alien lose all its speed and "crash". The Lerk plummets to the ground and the other lifeforms trips, maybe ragdolling around a bit, and ends up stuck for a second. A bit like the effect Stomp have on Marines, but with the huge difference that the predicament can easily be avoided by the player (just don't run head-on with Celerity against someone shooting at you).
the most overused and incorrect statement during this whole beta process.
it may be a sequel but its still NATURAL SELECTION
With Celerity its easier to travel between hives.
@developers:please disable Celerity on non-infestation
it may be a sequel but its still NATURAL SELECTION<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is Natural Selection. Only thing is, people are trying their hardest to make it NS1 with better graphics. And in my opinion, this nostalgia is what didn't allow NS2 to grow into something new - a real sequel. I just hope that UWE and the testers have learned a lot from this experience.
Ideally perhaps celerity should give AND a small flat movement speed buff (for combat) AND a faster travel (purely non combat), provided there is a way to balance the two separately.
I was thinking something maybe similar. If they do not want it to be used as a combat opener and want it to be more of a traveling device, they should make it have the same effect that the onos charge does when you come out of it. i.e. I am a skulk, I fly at a marine at warp 9 to bite him, but as soon as I bite I get that same temporary massive slowdown that the onos charge has at the end of it. That would discourage players from just rambo'ing with celerity and using it as a combat opener, because you'll be a vulnerable target after you come out of it via being damaged or using your abilities because of the temporary slowdown.
Then again if they did something like that you'd probably want celerity to be toggle-able and that would make things unnecessarily complicated I guess. It's probably best they re-design it :/
Are you familiar with the notion of <i>reinventing the wheel</i>?
And since the game is 90% about combat, all upgrades should be focused on this as the players will always favor combat advantages over everything else.