Onos is still getting ridiculous
Master Blaster
Join Date: 2012-03-17 Member: 148908Banned
Join Date: 2012-03-17 Member: 148908Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">Yup</div>Yup.
I know I said I wouldn't post here anymore but I just tried build 208.
It's the explosion of 2 or 3 onos rushing marine base at once -- the power node mechanic is too easy for them to exploit.
It happens in waves and it is entirely predictable because aliens have nothing to spend resources on except higher lifeforms.
208 just added hallucination which is a useless gimmick by the way. Kind of like Clog.
In addition, Shades no longer cloak players at all.
What was wrong with webbing exactly that clog is better? I kind of thought clogs were part of the April Fool's joke...
And as always "WHAR EXO and SHIFT WHAR?"
/in before "if you want NS1 go play NS1" and "Stop whining you self-entitled *****" etc.
//P.S. As Alien Commander, I can immediately drop a second hive and build it within 3 minutes, get augment before 5 minutes, and carapace before the 6 or 7 minute mark (approximately). I was actually able to drop 4 hives on tram at either 10 or 13 minutes (I don't know exactly) by dropping a hive and heal spraying them. Of course I had no upgrades that run but it was interesting. I'm not saying this part is necessarily bad, it is just something you might want to know.
///P.P.S. Command Station still crashes for whatever reason (the commander crashes out of the game, then another player commands and he or she ALSO crashes out of the game).
I know I said I wouldn't post here anymore but I just tried build 208.
It's the explosion of 2 or 3 onos rushing marine base at once -- the power node mechanic is too easy for them to exploit.
It happens in waves and it is entirely predictable because aliens have nothing to spend resources on except higher lifeforms.
208 just added hallucination which is a useless gimmick by the way. Kind of like Clog.
In addition, Shades no longer cloak players at all.
What was wrong with webbing exactly that clog is better? I kind of thought clogs were part of the April Fool's joke...
And as always "WHAR EXO and SHIFT WHAR?"
/in before "if you want NS1 go play NS1" and "Stop whining you self-entitled *****" etc.
//P.S. As Alien Commander, I can immediately drop a second hive and build it within 3 minutes, get augment before 5 minutes, and carapace before the 6 or 7 minute mark (approximately). I was actually able to drop 4 hives on tram at either 10 or 13 minutes (I don't know exactly) by dropping a hive and heal spraying them. Of course I had no upgrades that run but it was interesting. I'm not saying this part is necessarily bad, it is just something you might want to know.
///P.P.S. Command Station still crashes for whatever reason (the commander crashes out of the game, then another player commands and he or she ALSO crashes out of the game).
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Stomp is also pretty dumb, it's not much different than Devour... the range on it is way too long, pretty silly when you're all the way down the hall or across a room and still able to get stun locked. Yeah, that's fun and super skillful for both sides.
edit: also, WTB p-res sinks for aliens.
Res-system must get new revision ASAP! It's just aweful. 0.25 pres per Harvester? That's ridiculous. UWE is losing good players by giving newbie players chances to evolve to fade or onos.
Fade/Onos must become kind of 'Rewards' just like them on previous NS1. They are never to be spammed.
It seems to me that in the current build, if you get rushed by multiple Onos at around the 10 minute mark, its because you allowed the alien team get have the res to do it.
<u><b>It seems to me that in the current build, if you get rushed by multiple Onos at around the 10 minute mark, its because you allowed the alien team get have the res to do it</b></u>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>- Snip: Keep it civil like the qouted post and you won't need to deal with post snipping :)</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I refuse to even dignify this by addressing your trolling B.S.
It seems to me that in the current forum, you just run around trolling and no one bans you for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye, I posted a reasonable opinion about the game and you went off on one of your confrontational rants once again. Maybe some introspection is required on your half, then perhaps you will see who the real problem is.
On the topic of the EXO and Shift. They are not quite ready yet as said many times. It's close but not quite "gameplay ready" yet, so to speak
<b><!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Like I said above, let the mods handle the moderating bit. I'd rather have a civilised thread on the Onos, then having to lock it -Kouji_San<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
The anti-building stomp is DEVASTATING though. We cannot beacon, we cannot phase, we cannot spawn. Its just about as bad as destroying the base power node.
I personally like it. Not because I like disabling marines, or because I like being disabled as a marine, but because of the dynamic it creates between a group of marines and the Onos. The Onos runs into a room, and immediately all the marines the Onos is facing run away, in fear of being stomped. The ones it is not facing shoot the Onos. This process continues until the Onos is sufficiently damages so that it turns and runs, and which point it is facing no marines, and all the marines chase it.
The problem I see many identifying is not the interaction between marines and a single Onos, but marines and multiple Onos. If you've ever been a group of marines with two Onos in the room, I grant you, you aren't standing upright very often. But if you've ever been an Onos in crevice against multiple jetpacks, you know that that isn't too fun either. I mean. if you're in a small enclosed space, with no tech supporting you, you are in the Onos' domain. How can you possible expect to win?
He's exactly right. I keep winning games as rines easily. If you let the other team turtle to get 4 oni, that's your teams fault. I'm not saying the res system is perfect, by far. But you are being very aggressive and think that you have figured out everything. Relax, you started a thread for a reason, people comment, people share their opinions. If you simply wanted a "Onos is op, omg waaaaa!" support group, go make one on facebook or whatever.
<i><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->-A bit of cleaning up... -Kouji_San<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></i>
I cannot agree at all that marines win easily. Just watch at least 5 or 10 competitive matches. You'll definately vomit by watching super imbalances
<i><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->-A bit of cleaning up... -Kouji_San<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></i>
Right this is a last chance (and warning) to try and discuss the Onos or I shall F4 this thread. Got some cleaning up of this thread to do first...
Right this is a last chance (and warning) to try and discuss the Onos or I shall F4 this thread. Got some cleaning up of this thread to do first...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a combination of the Onos Stomp being very powerful and the power node mechanic being too vulnerable, along with the lack of options for aliens to spend personal resources on.
I like the Alien Commander idea but now there is this problem of no personal resource spending options for aliens. Lowering the starting personal resources of aliens will not fix this because the Onos explosion will simply happen later. The explosion of Onos sets a time limit on the game where after X minutes, Y almost always happens. This was not nearly as pronounced in NS1, and there was much more emphasis placed on getting hives and structures built.
I like all of the AESTHETICS of NS2, such as the lerk with bile bomb and the alien commander. But these issues need to be addressed before such things are actually playable or viable or however you want to say it. For example, the aesthetic of the lerk with bile bomb is great, but I really do not know how it can ever be balanced. It seems like it will always be overpowered or underpowered.
In addition, it seems like we are getting all these cheeky, useless gimmicks like Hallucination and Clogs. The gorge is only truly effective at building structures like hives using heal spray, but it has no constructive ability otherwise. I would like to see webbing back at the very least. That was both fun and effective and could be used in a variety of situations. Flamethrowers would be a logical counter to them.
MAYBE Clogs can work, however. So obviously play around with numbers and push buttons and turn dials and perhaps it can end up being good. I just think that right now it feels like a silly thing.
I've played this game for 497 hours so if you think I act like I know everything, it's probably because I actually do know the major issues with the current gameplay.
/In before "Stop Whining you self-entitled d-bag"
So ye there you have it. That why you have won as marines.
The problem I see many identifying is not the interaction between marines and a single Onos, but marines and multiple Onos. If you've ever been a group of marines with two Onos in the room, I grant you, you aren't standing upright very often. But if you've ever been an Onos in crevice against multiple jetpacks, you know that that isn't too fun either. I mean. if you're in a small enclosed space, with no tech supporting you, you are in the Onos' domain. How can you possible expect to win?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a noticable lack of skill involved in onos and 2s aoe stunlocks aka stomp.
You are right in one aspect though. One onos is relatively balanced. Decent marines can mitigate the stunlock by jumping the stomp. One onos is also susceptible to focus fire and needs to be wary of overextending or getting trapped. 2 or 3 onos are a joke. 2 or 3 onos will spam stomp and stunlock your entire team. You can't jump them. You can't focus fire them down. This is exceptionally bad in pubs where the higher player counts allow 3+ players to save for onos with no real impact on early game strength. Combine this with the fact that multiple onos with stomp are coming out in 8-10 minutes and you have a terrible pub experience.
There's no skillful counter to the onos because of stomp's huge range (removes aiming skill) and the onos' huge healthpool (removes movement skill) decimates small battles.
What would be bad about removing stomp's player stun? I honestly can't think of a reason not to do this.
The bigger issue is that we're still hanging onto the edge of NS2 here, with Shift and EXO not yet quite ready. Most of the balancing done now, would need a big revision once that goes in, not to mention more performance so marines can aim better*. Along with the fact that resflow is quite high right now.
*This patch has a nice boost already though
The bigger issue is that we're still hanging onto the edge of NS2 here, with Shift and EXO not yet quite ready. Most of the balancing done now, would need a big revision once that goes in, not to mention more performance so marines can aim better*. Along with the fact that resflow is quite high right now.
*This patch has a nice boost already though<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, but none of these will address the fact that multiple onos will be coming out long before you see exos (because aliens have no pres sinks). None of these also address the absurdness of a spammable AOE 2 second stun. Seriously, read that again. Spammable, aoe with a huge range, 2 second stun. That's such a ridiculously out of whack ability to have in any game, let a lone a fast paced FPS.
Also, the effect is being made volumetric. This means that marines will be able to jump over it if their skill and timing is good. It will also not go through walls, around corners, and generally become an ability that must be used deftly rather than spammed.
Also, the effect is being made volumetric. This means that marines will be able to jump over it if their skill and timing is good. It will also not go through walls, around corners, and generally become an ability that must be used deftly rather than spammed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And the part about 3 onos rushing marine base at exactly the same time every round, killing the powernode in approximately 20-30 seconds still could use some work.
The power node mechanic is bad partly because the current maps place the base power nodes in the MOST VULNERABLE PLACE POSSIBLE.
I will omit 1 and 4 because this is true for either team, as I'm sure you know and agree. 2 and 3 are indeed valid strategies for winning as marine. Here are some which you may have forgotten, or could not list.
5. Constantly attack alien harvesters, taking advantage of their relative weakness.
6. Play the possession game, and upgrade to jetpacks with your superior resources, rushing the hive.
7. Set up a base outside the alien hive and play the attrition game, whether through the IP spam strategy, or with an armoury and foot work.
No amazing addition to the list by any means, but all valid strategies. Could you now list the way in which aliens can win the game, being mindful to include any possible risks undergone. Then we shall truly see the imbalance, by comparing the two lists.
At any rate, trashing marines with Onos is ridiculously easy any two good Onos should be able to wipe out an 8 player marine team - 3 Bad Onos will suffice.
5. Constantly attack alien harvesters, taking advantage of their relative weakness.
6. Play the possession game, and upgrade to jetpacks with your superior resources, rushing the hive.
7. Set up a base outside the alien hive and play the attrition game, whether through the IP spam strategy, or with an armoury and foot work.
No amazing addition to the list by any means, but all valid strategies. Could you now list the way in which aliens can win the game, being mindful to include any possible risks undergone. Then we shall truly see the imbalance, by comparing the two lists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At first I thought you were horrible misguided in the Gorge thread, but it's clear to me now that you're unable to look at the Alien team objectively at all. I play Aliens 70-80% of the time (why not it's hilarious to face-roll marines), but at least I accept that the game is horribly imbalanced - Marines need a massive skillstack to win a straight-up game and Harvester sniping is only viable on certain maps.
One of the only maps I favour playing marines is Mineshaft, because you can snipe Harvesters like nobodies business.
5. Good aliens don't let you run around sniping harvesters on smaller maps.
6. Is this one a joke?
7. Have a Gorge set-up Hydra's and drop a whip - Whole team denied, expand other side of map keep Marines on two RTs.
5. Constantly attack alien harvesters, taking advantage of their relative weakness.
6. Play the possession game, and upgrade to jetpacks with your superior resources, rushing the hive.
7. Set up a base outside the alien hive and play the attrition game, whether through the IP spam strategy, or with an armoury and foot work.
No amazing addition to the list by any means, but all valid strategies. Could you now list the way in which aliens can win the game, being mindful to include any possible risks undergone. Then we shall truly see the imbalance, by comparing the two lists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
5) don't work as much now since there strong. And that's a good thing.
6) again will work if 4) applies
7) this with 4) also will work
Now for a alien win you need to hold 3 res towers. Keep marines of them and harass there res towers. around the 6 min mark get 2-3 fades to hold them back longer. Then at 8-10 min mark the rest go onos and push marines base gg. Full server means 3-4 onos on average. Say maybe 1 fade. rest skulls and maybe a gorge.
One of the only maps I favour playing marines is Mineshaft, because you can snipe Harvesters like nobodies business.
5. Good aliens don't let you run around sniping harvesters on smaller maps.
6. Is this one a joke?
7. Have a Gorge set-up Hydra's and drop a whip - Whole team denied, expand other side of map keep Marines on two RTs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet another person realizes the truth about these posts. Thank you Jayaris (seriously).
Step 1: Post something absurdly incorrect to the point of insulting on the internet.
Step 2: Increase website traffic by number of responses.
Step 3: Profit
This is more or less what is happening
And as for Jucci's post, I think 2 resource towers is now sufficient to get an Onos rush, rather than 3. Even one onos can just kill a power node so easily. If marines do not win in approximately 10 or 12 minutes, a single onos is now able to end the game in 30 seconds by *literally* flipping a light switch.
One of the only maps I favour playing marines is Mineshaft, because you can snipe Harvesters like nobodies business.
5. Good aliens don't let you run around sniping harvesters on smaller maps.
6. Is this one a joke?
7. Have a Gorge set-up Hydra's and drop a whip - Whole team denied, expand other side of map keep Marines on two RTs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting. You openly admit that you view those who hold a contrary opinion to your own as "misguided" or subjectively inclined. A logical person would hide such things from sight.
Argue the topic, do not make slights at me.
Anyway... I was simply highlighting the fact that Jucci mentioned two completely valid tactics which aided marines in victory, as if this was something to scough at. Yes, those are ways to win as marines, and yes, they carry risks and benefits as does any strategy. The same is true for conserving all resources for a potential Onos at 12 minutes. The teams may or may not be imbalanced, but the way he argued it was incorrect.
Argue the topic, do not make slights at me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You just insulted Jayaris by implying he is illogical, then you tell him not to insult you. That is illogical.
You seem to blindly adhere to this notion that no one can be definitively right, and therefore your ignorance must be just as good as our knowledge.
The problem is your posts are so wildly incorrect that to respond to them would be like responding to people who compare Obama to Adolf Hitler. There is just too much to correct that it really seems to be a troll.
The people in this thread who agree with me, such as Jucci, have played for more than 500 hours. I have played for 497. We know what is happening and our knowledge is not just based on one or two games. We are either heavy pubbers or serious competitive players.
I submit to you a quote from a very knowledgeable person:
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'â€
― Isaac Asimov
Your posts are almost always incorrect to the point where if you are not actually trolling, many people are confusing you with one. This would be alright except you have taken it upon yourself to aggressively go after everyone who disagrees with you, just like a troll would. Hence my aggresive, pre-emptive response to you posting in this serious thread. If you want to be taken seriously, then be seroius.
I believe this is the last I need to respond to you, and I hope this is considered "civil" because I really meant this post to be calm and civil while maintaining a stern tone to convey just what exactly you seem to be doing.
Good game.