Onos stomp

SkugganSkuggan Join Date: 2010-03-19 Member: 71017Members
In build 207 you cant dodge stomp anymore.

It takes away alot of the skill that was fighting the onos and the skill playing onos.
Things that removes skill is bad for the game in general according to me atleast.

Any other opinions about this?
«1

Comments

  • ZeikkoZeikko Join Date: 2007-12-16 Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
    Currently there is very little a player can do not get affected by stomp. And once he's stomped there's nothing he can do not to get stomped again or die. This makes fighting against onii quite frustrating.

    Being able to dodge the stomp would help a little bit to the issue but it wouldn't be very ideal either. If we absolutely need to have this kind of disable abilities in the game then being able to dodge them would be great!

    +1
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    Totally agree with you.
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I think they ninja changed stomp so that it affects everything to a specific height above where the stomp comes from so even if you jump it still catches you. So the traceray or whatever it is isn't just on the ground but in the air above the ground too? Was this actually intentional?

    +1 to op
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    A latency of more than 150 made it so that you would be stunned before the animation began to play.

    You say skill, I say impressive equipment.
  • MaximumSquidMaximumSquid Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
    <u><b>Imbalanxd:</b></u>

    How about if you are crouched you don't get knocked over?

    You could still argue timing, but I'd disagree with you
  • devel666devel666 Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72606Members
    ok but remeber if u gimp stomp any more than it is running marines are almost imposable to stop as onos and the easiest way to avoid onos is jump packs as onos are alien end game chars. jp shud be avalable if not bad com tbh n id prefer that thay keepd the knock over from onos gore
  • BamBam!BamBam! Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104527Members
    Another thing, it would be nice to see the stomp effect be less binary. Why should a rine who's 5 metres away from the onos be knocked over and suffer the same disabling effect as someone who's right next to the onos. Yet if he was an extra foot away out of range he'd feel nothing.

    Make stomp's effect relative to distance from Onos.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
    Very good idea, it could just shake you or slows you a bit if you not very close to the onos.

    I also agree that you should be able to dodge by jumping, it was quite fun to do. If the counter is too good you can always buff stomp a bit, like shorten the animation, the energy, the delay, whatever.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1934759:date=May 9 2012, 02:32 PM:name=BamBam!)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BamBam! @ May 9 2012, 02:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934759"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another thing, it would be nice to see the stomp effect be less binary. Why should a rine who's 5 metres away from the onos be knocked over and suffer the same disabling effect as someone who's right next to the onos. Yet if he was an extra foot away out of range he'd feel nothing.

    Make stomp's effect relative to distance from Onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm still kind of obsessed with the idea of onos actually being challenging adren management wise. How would it go if we combine the distance with a charge up stomp? The longer the charge up, the more adren cost, wider the stun AoE and more ability to stun over distance.
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1934722:date=May 9 2012, 10:03 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ May 9 2012, 10:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934722"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they ninja changed stomp so that it affects everything to a specific height above where the stomp comes from so even if you jump it still catches you. So the traceray or whatever it is isn't just on the ground but in the air above the ground too? Was this actually intentional?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If this was changed it wasn't intentional. Initially the stomp was effecting jetpacking marines as well, which we certainly didn't want, and we lowered the height of the stomp effect area.

    We want marine players to be able to dodge the stomp if they can time their jumps right, so we will look into this to see why it is no longer working this way.

    --Cory
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    That makes me happy to hear!
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    Incorporating a timing based mechanic dependant on a non relative time frame in a medium with time frames that are inherently relative.

    Interesting approach.
  • DocanDocan Join Date: 2007-12-28 Member: 63284Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1934807:date=May 9 2012, 12:23 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ May 9 2012, 12:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this was changed it wasn't intentional. Initially the stomp was effecting jetpacking marines as well, which we certainly didn't want, and we lowered the height of the stomp effect area.

    We want marine players to be able to dodge the stomp if they can time their jumps right, so we will look into this to see why it is no longer working this way.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If jetpack is active just make marines immune to stomp instead of fiddling with heights
  • Champlo0Champlo0 Join Date: 2012-04-17 Member: 150617Members
    You can be stomped up ramps, on top of surfaces that are clearly above ground substantially, overall needs some tweaking. Personally I'd rather see it gone and some kind of roar that would function similarly but not stun marines. No one likes getting stunned, especially with multiple Onos just stun locking you.
  • MiniH0wieMiniH0wie Join Date: 2007-11-25 Member: 63013Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1934824:date=May 9 2012, 12:08 PM:name=Champlo0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Champlo0 @ May 9 2012, 12:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can be stomped up ramps, on top of surfaces that are clearly above ground substantially, overall needs some tweaking. Personally I'd rather see it gone and some kind of roar that would function similarly but not stun marines. No one likes getting stunned, especially with multiple Onos just stun locking you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Did you mean to say "can't"?
    Because I was playing Onos last night and couldn't stomp marines on ramp. I was on the bottom and they were only a foot or two up the ramp and were unaffected.
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    Also need to prevent marines from snowboarding away when they do get stomped on ramps. Its really annoying.
  • fmponefmpone Join Date: 2011-07-05 Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1934807:date=May 9 2012, 12:23 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ May 9 2012, 12:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this was changed it wasn't intentional. Initially the stomp was effecting jetpacking marines as well, which we certainly didn't want, and we lowered the height of the stomp effect area.

    We want marine players to be able to dodge the stomp if they can time their jumps right, so we will look into this to see why it is no longer working this way.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's cool, I didn't even know that was part of the plan. Nice!
  • Champlo0Champlo0 Join Date: 2012-04-17 Member: 150617Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1934826:date=May 9 2012, 09:12 AM:name=MiniH0wie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MiniH0wie @ May 9 2012, 09:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934826"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you mean to say "can't"?
    Because I was playing Onos last night and couldn't stomp marines on ramp. I was on the bottom and they were only a foot or two up the ramp and were unaffected.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, I definitely mean can. I've been stomped up ramps, on sizable crates, etc. People are also able to dodge my stomp by jumping but I haven't been able to since last patch. Sporadic, glitched, random, I don't know. I just know it's not consistent.
  • Wonderboy2402Wonderboy2402 Join Date: 2011-08-28 Member: 118911Members
    I think, also, that the knockdown effect / disable should be based on proximity. I don't have a problem with the resulting effect, just that is seems way to massive of an area. Also, does this effect a cone in front or is it in a 360 radius?

    If you are little more then onos arms length away from a stomp, you should be knocked over and temporarily disabled. Onos can still run up to a marine clump and do a stomp to knock them all over. Just they wouldn't be able to do this from 40 feet away anymore, leaving some marines still on their feet while others with lost footing.

    If you are 40 ft away, you should NOT be knocked to the floor. And it shouldn't work around corners either. If the range is that great, it should be a lesser effect such as decreased accuracy or weapon spread for a few seconds.

    I've been caught at insane range with stomp and it seems very cheesy, right now. When I know their is a onos out on the map and we are pushing. I always hang back of the main group so that I can left standing and put fire on the onos when he knocks over five team members.
  • MiniH0wieMiniH0wie Join Date: 2007-11-25 Member: 63013Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1934852:date=May 9 2012, 02:47 PM:name=Wonderboy2402)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wonderboy2402 @ May 9 2012, 02:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think, also, that the knockdown effect / disable should be based on proximity. I don't have a problem with the resulting effect, just that is seems way to massive of an area. Also, does this effect a cone in front or is it in a 360 radius?

    If you are little more then onos arms length away from a stomp, you should be knocked over and temporarily disabled. Onos can still run up to a marine clump and do a stomp to knock them all over. Just they wouldn't be able to do this from 40 feet away anymore, leaving some marines still on their feet while others with lost footing.

    If you are 40 ft away, you should NOT be knocked to the floor. And it shouldn't work around corners either. If the range is that great, it should be a lesser effect such as decreased accuracy or weapon spread for a few seconds.

    I've been caught at insane range with stomp and it seems very cheesy, right now. When I know their is a onos out on the map and we are pushing. I always hang back of the main group so that I can left standing and put fire on the onos when he knocks over five team members.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    +1

    I got knocked down around a corner before and thought that was a little OP. Plus it seems that the radius is too wide as not only does the marine in front of you go down, but so do any others to the side of him and I don't mean their standing right next to each other either.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    <!--quoteo(post=1934851:date=May 9 2012, 11:05 AM:name=Champlo0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Champlo0 @ May 9 2012, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, I definitely mean can. I've been stomped up ramps, on sizable crates, etc. People are also able to dodge my stomp by jumping but I haven't been able to since last patch. Sporadic, glitched, random, I don't know. I just know it's not consistent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is intentional for good reasons, previously some small bump on the ground would prevent a stomp. When this was fixed jet packers got hit. When that was fixed, and somewhere just after pax, a change was made that kept you from jumping over the stomp. I argued for it, as well as the unintentional "fake stomp" animation glitch the onos could do, which created a skillful meta game based on timings. It creates that "dance" of battle that every life form encounters which prevents that binary experience of insta kills. You only get another second or so at most of firing anyways, not to mention jumping roots you in your place temporarily making you vulnerable to others. But it was declared a glitch in the meantime until settled. Which I guess is now?

    +1 To OP for bringing this up
  • Champlo0Champlo0 Join Date: 2012-04-17 Member: 150617Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1934876:date=May 9 2012, 02:59 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ May 9 2012, 02:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934876"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is intentional for good reasons, previously some small bump on the ground would prevent a stomp. When this was fixed jet packers got hit. When that was fixed, and somewhere just after pax, a change was made that kept you from jumping over the stomp. I argued for it, as well as the unintentional "fake stomp" animation glitch the onos could do, which created a skillful meta game based on timings. It creates that "dance" of battle that every life form encounters which prevents that binary experience of insta kills. You only get another second or so at most of firing anyways, not to mention jumping roots you in your place temporarily making you vulnerable to others. But it was declared a glitch in the meantime until settled. Which I guess is now?

    +1 To OP for bringing this up<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't think you realize how high you can be up on something and still get hit by Onos stomp. I don't mean like standing on a plank of wood I mean standing on a big crate at least 7 feet tall. There's nothing "skillfull" about killing someone who can't move or shoot.
  • Master BlasterMaster Blaster Join Date: 2012-03-17 Member: 148908Banned
    <!--quoteo(post=1934742:date=May 9 2012, 04:23 AM:name=devel666)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (devel666 @ May 9 2012, 04:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934742"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ok but remeber if u gimp stomp any more than it is running marines are almost imposable to stop as onos and the easiest way to avoid onos is jump packs as onos are alien end game chars. jp shud be avalable if not bad com tbh n id prefer that thay keepd the knock over from onos gore<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What is this I dont even?.....
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    <!--quoteo(post=1934884:date=May 9 2012, 02:14 PM:name=Champlo0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Champlo0 @ May 9 2012, 02:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934884"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think you realize how high you can be up on something and still get hit by Onos stomp. I don't mean like standing on a plank of wood I mean standing on a big crate at least 7 feet tall. There's nothing "skillfull" about killing someone who can't move or shoot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmm yea I've noticed, but then also consider the "gusty wind" effect looks as if it should go up a ramp like the one going to ore on tram, which it doesn't do very well anyways in the latest patch lol. Theres definitely room for improvement.

    I think you misunderstood what exactly I considered to be skilful - not stomp itself but the timed counters
  • Master BlasterMaster Blaster Join Date: 2012-03-17 Member: 148908Banned
    edited May 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1934718:date=May 9 2012, 01:39 AM:name=Skuggan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skuggan @ May 9 2012, 01:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934718"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In build 207 you cant dodge stomp anymore.

    It takes away alot of the skill that was fighting the onos and the skill playing onos.
    Things that removes skill is bad for the game in general according to me atleast.

    Any other opinions about this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    B..b..but if the game requires skill then how will all the Call of Duty players buy the game????

    Better off leaving it so all you do is click the mouse and anything in the area, even on the ceiling, gets stomped. In fact, WIDEN the stomp radius.

    <u><b>Also this notion that stomp should stop ARCS from firing and all marine tech including observatories and phase gates from working is INSANE </b></u>
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Personally, I'd love to see stomp restricted just to affecting enemy structures, with a increase in structure stun time and changing it to a radius around the onos rather than a directional attack. The knockdown effect frequently ends in the marine death anyways making even groups of marines feel helpless against an attacking onos.
  • OutlawDrOutlawDr Join Date: 2009-06-21 Member: 67887Members
    I like the idea of knock down up close and slow down further out of its range.
    <img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6636384/NS2/stomp.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Picture is not to scale, but you get the idea. Stomp would generate two "hitboxes": one for knock down and the other slow down.
    Knock down would affect marines not jumping up to half of stomps current range. Beyond that marines are slowed down. By jumping a marine can avoid the knock down except up close (probably going to die anyway). By jumping a marine can avoid must of the slow downs hit box.
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1934969:date=May 10 2012, 04:35 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ May 10 2012, 04:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934969"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Picture is not to scale, but you get the idea. Stomp would generate two "hitboxes": one for knock down and the other slow down.
    Knock down would affect marines not jumping up to half of stomps current range. Beyond that marines are slowed down. By jumping a marine can avoid the knock down except up close (probably going to die anyway). By jumping a marine can avoid must of the slow downs hit box.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This would effectively double the amount of adrenaline and time required to do exactly what the Onos currently does. The first stomp would slow a group of marines, the second would knock them all down. I'm happy with this solution, if it satisfies everyone who thinks stomp is currently overpowered.

    How would it work on structures in the red and yellow areas?
  • OutlawDrOutlawDr Join Date: 2009-06-21 Member: 67887Members
    edited May 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1934971:date=May 9 2012, 09:38 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ May 9 2012, 09:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934971"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This would effectively double the amount of adrenaline and time required to do exactly what the Onos currently does. The first stomp would slow a group of marines, the second would knock them all down. I'm happy with this solution, if it satisfies everyone who thinks stomp is currently overpowered.

    How would it work on structures in the red and yellow areas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No thats not what I meant. This is all in one stomp. The one stomp has two effects depending on range (and height to account for jumping marines). I simply divided the two into geothermic ares in the picture as a visual aid. Its helps visualize how stomp's two effects (knock down/ slow down) work with range and jumping.
  • XeiZXeiZ Join Date: 2012-04-13 Member: 150384Members
    I didnt really mind stomp pre-207, but now that you cant jump it anymore (bug or not) its a little bit overtuned.
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