Sick idea
.ADHd
Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
<div class="IPBDescription">I am beggiing the devs to consider</div>One thing that a lot of players miss about NS1 is the ability to drop a second commander chair in an obscure location on the map. I am not sure why the developers have strayed away from allowing this, but I have an idea.....
What if there was an upgrade on marines that you could research through a robotics factory (Or through the command chair itself). You could build a mobile unit which would unpack into a command chair (Think command and conquer style). This unit would move relatively slow and have to be escorted stealthily to a strategic location. It can then build into a CC and be used as a second base. You would need the robotics factory to build the mobile CC, and perhaps you'd have to research the robotics to upgrade to mobile CC ability like with ARCS.
This option wouldn't be possible or viable in early game preventing random CC relocations, but would allow the option once marines have the res and map control. It wouldn't be very hard to implement and would be pretty amazing in my opinion.
This would be a counter to the EVER PRESENT cc rush by skulks when the marines have pretty much already won. It get's old having to drop CC's in OBVIOUS locations so dropping a second CC to counter a skulk rush isn't very viable vs good players. The mobile CC could be a genius backup base that is hidden.
This is simply my plea to the developers and the community to look at the positives of CC relocations and to consider adding them back into the game. I realize my idea won't be implemented but it could be modded.
I also am waiting for an official response from UWE as to why dropping CC's outside tech points is not allowed. My theory is that the game engine isn't streamlined enough to allow for it, so the developers have strayed away from this to prevent more bugs and possible exploits. Band-aid alert? My answer to that is to make the game less buggy and able to support more dynamic play.
I assume the excuse for not allowing it is for "balance", but I don't personally see that as good enough. You can already relocate to any tech point, so why not bring it to the next level and allow for more freedom?
What if there was an upgrade on marines that you could research through a robotics factory (Or through the command chair itself). You could build a mobile unit which would unpack into a command chair (Think command and conquer style). This unit would move relatively slow and have to be escorted stealthily to a strategic location. It can then build into a CC and be used as a second base. You would need the robotics factory to build the mobile CC, and perhaps you'd have to research the robotics to upgrade to mobile CC ability like with ARCS.
This option wouldn't be possible or viable in early game preventing random CC relocations, but would allow the option once marines have the res and map control. It wouldn't be very hard to implement and would be pretty amazing in my opinion.
This would be a counter to the EVER PRESENT cc rush by skulks when the marines have pretty much already won. It get's old having to drop CC's in OBVIOUS locations so dropping a second CC to counter a skulk rush isn't very viable vs good players. The mobile CC could be a genius backup base that is hidden.
This is simply my plea to the developers and the community to look at the positives of CC relocations and to consider adding them back into the game. I realize my idea won't be implemented but it could be modded.
I also am waiting for an official response from UWE as to why dropping CC's outside tech points is not allowed. My theory is that the game engine isn't streamlined enough to allow for it, so the developers have strayed away from this to prevent more bugs and possible exploits. Band-aid alert? My answer to that is to make the game less buggy and able to support more dynamic play.
I assume the excuse for not allowing it is for "balance", but I don't personally see that as good enough. You can already relocate to any tech point, so why not bring it to the next level and allow for more freedom?
Comments
Also I believe the devs are very dead set in their adherence to the tech point system. Alas, the idea of more mobility in structure placement is a virtue that I would prefer more often sought by the devs and playerbase in general.
People can say it's useless but they just haven't realized the full potential to be honest.
The mobile CC should be modelled after the NS1 chair which was small and able to be placed in vents and etc.
The aliens can move around a map fast which is true but traffic is usually constricted to key points... If you are gl pushing their hive in DC its pretty doubtful you will have a skulk out in crevice searching for a mobile CC. There simply needs to be bigger maps with more hidden areas to do these kinds of strats.
I think people who are opposed to this simply want the game in a dumbed down state so they don't have to relearn potential creative tactics. I am not saying that is you, but this is the general idea I am getting with it.
In summit a CC drop could be in the back of crevice, or in the hallways connecting pipe junction and crossroads. You could hide it behind the door in crossroads as well.
It's obvious the mappers didn't have relocatable CC's in mind when developing these maps but tram and mineshaft have a ton of places you can relocate to. A TON. Think of the little pit in the back of drill repair that only has a small vent leading into it. Genius relocation spot. On tram you can build it under the north tunnel or in the areas in the vents near warehouse that are tall enough to stand and run in. Or next to repair room in the maintenence area that only has 2 vents and a ladder as a way out.
Think of the fun that could be had.
In the end if it doesn't end up getting implemented I will just make a mod that allows for CC's to be dropped like any other structure. It's something the game REALLY needs to make it less predictable and boring.
>Powerpack IPs/Armory
>Spam grenades at vent enterance(s) constantly
>Wait until enemy ragequits?
sounds wierd but could work out
this way marines are having a disadvantage if they chose to relocate (or build a random 2nd base) but get further opportunities
however, the idea of relocating C&C style is great!
it would be AWESOME if marines did not start with a built CC, but with a mobile vehicle that transforms into a CC (one way only)
unfortunately it brings several disadvantages along, e.g. it could be rushed very easily at the beginning and long travels are very risky
but if you guys really want to make NS2 a competivly played game, you will <b>have to</b> get rid of the random startposition-thingy.
no competetive player wants to lose just because of having bad luck with startlocations.
"somehow" you'll have to allow the team/the commander to chose where to start, before it "actually" starts
edit: just another idea regarding relocations,
what if the CC would not just be a building that sits on the hive-locations spot (what doesnt make much sense anyway) but it docks onto the power-nodes. so every power-node is a possible CC location/spot. if a CC is built, the CC covers the powernode so the powernode is only attackable once the CC got destroyed, which eleminates power-node rushes etc, much more relocation opportunities and its quite logical
What a great reason...
sounds wierd but could work out
this way marines are having a disadvantage if they chose to relocate (or build a random 2nd base) but get further opportunities
however, the idea of relocating C&C style is great!
it would be AWESOME if marines did not start with a built CC, but with a mobile vehicle that transforms into a CC (one way only)
unfortunately it brings several disadvantages along, e.g. it could be rushed very easily at the beginning and long travels are very risky
but if you guys really want to make NS2 a competivly played game, you will <b>have to</b> get rid of the random startposition-thingy.
no competetive player wants to lose just because of having bad luck with startlocations.
"somehow" you'll have to allow the team/the commander to chose where to start, before it "actually" starts
edit: just another idea regarding relocations,
what if the CC would not just be a building that sits on the hive-locations spot (what doesnt make much sense anyway) but it docks onto the power-nodes. so every power-node is a possible CC location/spot. if a CC is built, the CC covers the powernode so the powernode is only attackable once the CC got destroyed, which eleminates power-node rushes etc, much more relocation opportunities and its quite logical<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be relatively simple to allow the game to randomly choose which side gets to pick their initial base and then allow the opposing side to choose. If both sides chose the same location you would just force a redraw and ban that location from the players selection on that bout, and then allow it if the teams both chose the same location again. To demonstrate, location C out of ABCD is chosen by both teams first round. C gets banned and this time A is chosen by both teams. In the next bout, A will be banned but C will not be banned. This is null of course in mineshaft style maps where both teams don't have overlapping initial base locations.
:D
Chris0132,
It's not really that I want a mobile CC to counter a skulk rush... it was just some random thing I made up in my head. I just want the ability to drop a comm chair at any point in the map unrestricted. You could balance it by making it cost a lot more res to drop somewhere that is not a tech point.
I don't think it could really hurt the gameplay if implemented that way. Nobody is ever going to relocate except for the people who see it as viable. All I can see it doing is improving the marines playability, and adding more options for the commander and team (Which is always a plus for an RTS). I am probably mistaken but I am willing to bet all it would take is changing a few lines of script or code to allow dropping of CC's anywhere. Anyone have an idea about how to code it?
I think it's a legit strat and it could be regulated by only allowing perhaps 1 CC drop outside of a tech point to prevent CC blocking.
Like I said I just don't really see the need for it, you can get all the functions more or less with tech point CCs, drop more than one and they're resistant to attacks, they can cover all the important parts of the map, they can be made quite defensible if the mapmaker so chooses, they may or may not contain resource nodes. Maps can be designed with any sort of CC option you desire.
Unless you're planning to exploit the fact that current maps aren't designed for CC placement anywhere to put one in an obviously broken location which is impossible for aliens to attack properly, I don't see why you need them.
Like I said I just don't really see the need for it, you can get all the functions more or less with tech point CCs, drop more than one and they're resistant to attacks, they can cover all the important parts of the map, they can be made quite defensible if the mapmaker so chooses, they may or may not contain resource nodes. Maps can be designed with any sort of CC option you desire.
Unless you're planning to exploit the fact that current maps aren't designed for CC placement anywhere to put one in an obviously broken location which is impossible for aliens to attack properly, I don't see why you need them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you played NS1 for more than 30 mins you will immediately know why relocatable CC's are USEFUL. You are right that they are probably useless unless allowed to be dropped anywhere without the need for an additional upgrade or unit. It should be allowed by default. I have yet to see an official response from the developer team as to why they won't allow CC relocations.
And your argument that not many people will use something because its difficult to pull off is kind of noobish and ignorant. Not many people play a 12 string guitar... does that make it useless? No, it makes it harder to master but with a greater reward.
Command Chair: 15 tres
Infantry Portal: 10 tres x2
Armory: 10 tres
Total: 45 tres
Phase Gate: 15 tres x2
Observatory: 10 tres
Phase Tech: 15 tres
Total: 55 tres
Difference: 10 tres for phase gate
Now, keep in mind that this is the vanilla cost. We can assume that, in whatever sort of implementation that it would go through, that it would cost more to build a second base, or relocate, to a non-TP area. What this means for the idea itself is that its fairly redundant for the purpose of getting marines in closer to the alien base when you can just get a phase gate up to there. So with that being said I see this a little redundant for that. If you could find some explicit purpose and benefit in terms of tres and efficiency of the non-TP CC idea then it would be more arguable, but at its current state I don't see it extremely practical.
It takes a long time to research phase tech and costs a lot of res. Putting a phase gate somewhere isn't relocating... I am gonna assume you are smart enough to see the difference between a phase gate placed 6 mins into the game vs an entire base relocated within 20 seconds.
My idea of having mobile CC's is cool I think but what I am argueing for at the core is allowing CC's to be placed anywhere making my idea at the start of the thread redundant.
You are already allowed to relocate your CC to different points in the map, but often the points you are restricted to don't offer any real advantage.
If you make CC's droppable anywhere then you will see a lot more flavor in matches. You will never know where the marine base could be at the start of the game. I think this is what the random start locations were trying to achieve but failed miserably because it takes the control out of the players hands. Not to mention random starts are still painfully predictable... and not really random at all.
The developers have already put in a mechanic to randomize spawn locations so it wouldn't be so far fetched to assume that CC relocations were also in their minds. They clearly decided against them for some reason which is still unknown to me.
Allowing the CC to be dropped anywhere nullifies the need for random start locations because now the players have the choice in that. You shouldn't have to put your CC on a tech point. It's too rule oriented in my opinion.
I can understand forcing hives on tech points... which gives the asymmetric gameplay element. Marines can build bases anywhere while aliens cannot.
Also keep in mind that relocating CC's isn't about starting closer to the alien base... which could actually be to your downfall. It's about being unpredictable or taking advantage of marine sided areas of maps.
then
spark ns1 mod comes out. everyone plays mod
I don't like being limited to where you can drop the CC right now, but your suggestion won't help my situation any
Alien team finds out that we're trying to relocate on Mineshaft and they crap cysts all over the place so we can't build Infantry Portals
Being able to drop a CC anywhere and I wouldn't have to put up that blind fire hard counter like that
edit TechData.lua line 206 and remove:
[kStructureAttachClass] = "TechPoint"
that should make it possible to place command stations anywhere you want.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel that there needs to be more open spaces for proper relocations, and NS2 maps do not provide such luxuries.