I like the fast-paced support/bomber role the Lerk has fallen into, but I'm not really liking that it took away from the Gorge. The Gorge is already feeling a bit lackluster (doesn't help that hydras are meh).
While reading the comments i changed my mind a couple of times. I was pretty pissed about the lerk bb, but i couldnt quite put my finger on it, and the nit hit me: Every time the lerk pissed the entire marine team off was at mineshaft. I still don't understand the mindset behind mineshaft. Such close hive spawns.... A 2nd hive in mineshaft is almost a guarantee, and the operation's high ceiling ensures a lerk a comfortable and easy flyby with bb.
<!--quoteo(post=1924830:date=Apr 12 2012, 11:59 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Apr 12 2012, 11:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924830"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->except lerks using bile/spores do all the other things mutas do too (like keeping marines in their base, threatening counterattacks/base trades, killing reinforcements and so on) - it's not just about attacking structures (and bile is honestly quite bad at that in anything but a 5-10 minute campaign of slowly digesting the base)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, I guess that makes sense from that angle. I was kind of thinking more about the mobile anti-building units in general and not so much a direct lerk-mutalisk analogy. I guess it exactly goes to the direction where the bbomb isn't exactly your explosive burst damage dealer it was in the gorge days.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Gorge bilebomb was pretty much a game-ender - get some fades/lerks to cover the gorges so they could bile down the base, and it was gg. Onos was strictly optional.
Lerk bilebomb is comparatively meh ... you can't deliver the enough damage output to actually kill the marine base unless you wipe out all the marines. And if you can do that, then you don't need the bilebomb.
So ending the game now requires locking the marines down in base until you have enough Onoses to win. Which can take a while.
<!--quoteo(post=1925151:date=Apr 13 2012, 02:51 PM:name=matso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (matso @ Apr 13 2012, 02:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorge bilebomb was pretty much a game-ender - get some fades/lerks to cover the gorges so they could bile down the base, and it was gg. Onos was strictly optional.
Lerk bilebomb is comparatively meh ... you can't deliver the enough damage output to actually kill the marine base unless you wipe out all the marines. And if you can do that, then you don't need the bilebomb.
So ending the game now requires locking the marines down in base until you have enough Onoses to win. Which can take a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally don't mind that - it's nice to see the Onos returned to a useful role. Once they fixed the hitboxes in NS1, HMGs made the Onos nearly useless.
Don't agree at all that it should be moved back to gorge. I'm really liking it on lerk right now (yes, even when I play marine), and I prefer the gorge to have his role focused more on what he is already doing (healer+support+'engineer'). I'd obviously like to see the gorge get a bit more to do (goo wall should be pretty cool), but I really don't want bile to be back on them. Been playing fatty lately and having a lot of fun, even without his full list of planned abilities. Quite a nice change of pace, but if it had bilebomb back it'd be just like every other alien... forced to go into the heat of battle when your slowness, relative squishiness, and "HEALER! SHOOT IT!!!" target on your back is screaming to do the opposite... no thanks (the exception being when you're attempting a rush and are healing like a maniac in the middle of combat...... where you have no time or energy to spend on anything else if you want your team to survive). That's why when I want to stare death in the face and harass like a mofo I go lerk: the KING of harassing.
What I DON'T like is the repair rate thing when a structure is all covered in bile, and mostly it's just the *feeling* of it. It's very weird to be repairing, then have it start constantly going down even when 2 people are repairing non-stop. Made me think bile or welding (or both) was bugged (or that it intentionally prevented all repairing) as there is no feedback whatsoever of what is going on. So personally I'd just prefer a change to the welding of bile bombed structures, even if it's just some kind of feedback to say "yes, it's working, but it's not enough!".
Lerks are easy enough to take down if you're aren't surrounded by people incapable of focusing fire or trapping a lerk in a room, so them having the relatively weak bile bomb is not OP to me. And again, their entire suite of abilities is harassment-oriented, so it's a perfect fit in my mind.
Also, a lot of people seem to be forgetting that neither side has all its features yet. Specifically, marines don't have their exosuit or mini-gun yet, and I imagine once they do the lerk problem will not exist in the same manner since a single marine will be able to take one down much more easily (especially if exosuit will remove gas damage... is that even confirmed yet?)
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1925161:date=Apr 13 2012, 11:29 PM:name=TheIcarusKid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheIcarusKid @ Apr 13 2012, 11:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925161"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I personally don't mind that - it's nice to see the Onos returned to a useful role. Once they fixed the hitboxes in NS1, HMGs made the Onos nearly useless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is more that you enter a stage of the game where the marines can't win and the aliens has to wait for enough res to win. So the game is over, you are just waiting out the clock.
Either the marines needs a chance to get back from being pushed all the way down to their hive, with complete alien map domination, or the aliens need a faster way of killing the marine turtle at the end.
Any tech that the marines can research in the endgame that will be powerful enough to turn a full-alien map domination game is probably going to be too powerful in a normal game, so that way out seems closed.
Meaning that the aliens should have some way of ending the game faster.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1924074:date=Apr 11 2012, 08:30 AM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Apr 11 2012, 08:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree. A fast unit should never be a anti structure unit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +9000
<!--quoteo(post=1925151:date=Apr 13 2012, 10:51 PM:name=matso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (matso @ Apr 13 2012, 10:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorge bilebomb was pretty much a game-ender - get some fades/lerks to cover the gorges so they could bile down the base, and it was gg. Onos was strictly optional.
Lerk bilebomb is comparatively meh ... you can't deliver the enough damage output to actually kill the marine base unless you wipe out all the marines. And if you can do that, then you don't need the bilebomb.
So ending the game now requires locking the marines down in base until you have enough Onoses to win. Which can take a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most of the time the Lerks decide the game, just had several games where marines turtled up, 4 Lerks go in each dropping 2 BB get out, repeat. Base was down in 2 min. No other classes were involved. Even if you lose a lerk or 2 the IPs, sentrys and phasegate die on 8 BB hitting them. To be honest BB on Lerk is more effective than on the gorge, and if you trained enough you don't even need to fully enter a base to place a BB in the midle of a room.
<!--quoteo(post=1925322:date=Apr 15 2012, 01:13 AM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Apr 15 2012, 01:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Most of the time the Lerks decide the game, just had several games where marines turtled up, 4 Lerks go in each dropping 2 BB get out, repeat. Base was down in 2 min. No other classes were involved. Even if you lose a lerk or 2 the IPs, sentrys and phasegate die on 8 BB hitting them. To be honest BB on Lerk is more effective than on the gorge, and if you trained enough you don't even need to fully enter a base to place a BB in the midle of a room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now lets take 4 gorges :p. I doubt it would take 2 minutes to end the game. So much stalematitis in the current builds sigh.. :( I hope UWE are paying close attention to their game length stats.
<!--quoteo(post=1925441:date=Apr 14 2012, 05:39 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Apr 14 2012, 05:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925441"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope UWE are paying close attention to their game length stats.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they just like to make completely random changes for no rhyme or reason... :P
Obviously they're working on it and paying attention to, well, everything. There is only so much they can do at once, and balance is hardly the most important thing right now when the game isn't even feature complete yet (seeing how as soon as something else is added everyone will scream OP and they'll have to rebalance everything yet again).
Of course they will balance the hell out of the game (just like they'll increase performance) based on all sorts of game and player data/input, like they are already doing, before it is released. They haven't spent this long developing it just to force out in its current state.
<!--quoteo(post=1925493:date=Apr 15 2012, 12:40 PM:name=sickboy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sickboy @ Apr 15 2012, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, they just like to make completely random changes for no rhyme or reason... :P
Obviously they're working on it and paying attention to, well, everything. There is only so much they can do at once, and balance is hardly the most important thing right now when the game isn't even feature complete yet (seeing how as soon as something else is added everyone will scream OP and they'll have to rebalance everything yet again).
Of course they will balance the hell out of the game (just like they'll increase performance) based on all sorts of game and player data/input, like they are already doing, before it is released. They haven't spent this long developing it just to force out in its current state.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, this thing people keep saying about not being feature complete and balance was fine maybe 10-20 builds ago but its getting a bit old. Right now i think we should be a little bit realistic and realise theres really not alot of gameplay 'features' left to add (not balance tweaks or changes to existing design). Let me list them for you.
- Exo - Gorge buildings - MC - cyst abilities
Do any of these sound like they solve stalematitis / meaninglessly prolonged games? Or do they sound like they might infact contribute? The biggest marine feature in terms of firepower and staying power hasn't even been implemented, yet we are having horrible stalematitis especially in regular public games. It doesn't take much of a stretch of imagination.
Well ofcourse its obvious they will keep iterating. This is where player feedback comes in... taadaa.
I wouldn't imagine exosuits would help much given they'd be kinda expensive to field in a last stand situation. Gorge buildings would help attacks by boxing marines in more and supporting alien attackers.
Is it just me or did anyone else have his thumb hurt, after playing Lerk? I have to press SO MUCH Space key to fly around the map, because if i don't tapping it all the time, i get slow and fall to the ground. Holding it, don't work well, just speed up more if i tapping it like a beast.
<!--quoteo(post=1925576:date=Apr 15 2012, 10:30 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Apr 15 2012, 10:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925576"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wouldn't imagine exosuits would help much given they'd be kinda expensive to field in a last stand situation. Gorge buildings would help attacks by boxing marines in more and supporting alien attackers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> tbh im not sure. Exosuit with railguns/dual minigun seems to be the marine 'counter' to onos. I would be willing to bet that it will be immune to Onos stuns as well. Expensive or not, you have to reasonably assume that turtling marines will be using them.. :(
The problem with buildings is they get blown up by ARCS which is why any alien siege breaker has to be in large part a player based ability. Your right though, maybe UWE is planning to give gorge back bilebomb but in a structural form (mini whip or something).
<!--quoteo(post=1925590:date=Apr 15 2012, 01:19 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Apr 15 2012, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925590"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->tbh im not sure. Exosuit with railguns/dual minigun seems to be the marine 'counter' to onos. I would be willing to bet that it will be immune to Onos stuns as well. Expensive or not, you have to reasonably assume that turtling marines will be using them.. :(
The problem with buildings is they get blown up by ARCS which is why any alien siege breaker has to be in large part a player based ability. Your right though, maybe UWE is planning to give gorge back bilebomb but in a structural form (mini whip or something).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For about five minutes maybe, but once they die they won't be able to replace them. Marines hold out not by buying good weapons, but by sheer weight of numbers/picking up each other's guns.
<!--quoteo(post=1925584:date=Apr 15 2012, 07:55 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Apr 15 2012, 07:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925584"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is it just me or did anyone else have his thumb hurt, after playing Lerk? I have to press SO MUCH Space key to fly around the map, because if i don't tapping it all the time, i get slow and fall to the ground. Holding it, don't work well, just speed up more if i tapping it like a beast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been tapping space rhythmically in every FPS I've played for like 15 years, so this is fine for me. Ask me again in another 10 years when I have a morphine drip hooked up to deal with the pain in my left hand, though...
<!--quoteo(post=1924197:date=Apr 11 2012, 05:31 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Apr 11 2012, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924197"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've seen fast-attack, anti structure units in almost every FPS game I can imagine.
RA3 capitalized on air power for that role, but there were also land based alternatives. The biggest I can think of was the Commando unit, which could hop into any troop transport, ride into a base (with the appropriate support), and start demolishing structures. More conventional examples included Mirage Tanks and IFVs.
TW3/Kane's Wrath had the Shatterer for GDI, Corrupter for Scrin, and Nod had the same staple Attack Bikes and Stealth Tanks they've always had to fill the role.
Keep going back and you'll keep seeing examples; fast-moving base killers are about as old as RTS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1925568:date=Apr 15 2012, 05:42 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Apr 15 2012, 05:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, this thing people keep saying about not being feature complete and balance was fine maybe 10-20 builds ago but its getting a bit old. Right now i think we should be a little bit realistic and realise theres really not alot of gameplay 'features' left to add (not balance tweaks or changes to existing design). Let me list them for you.
- Exo - Gorge buildings - MC - cyst abilities
Do any of these sound like they solve stalematitis / meaninglessly prolonged games? Or do they sound like they might infact contribute? The biggest marine feature in terms of firepower and staying power hasn't even been implemented, yet we are having horrible stalematitis especially in regular public games. It doesn't take much of a stretch of imagination.
Well ofcourse its obvious they will keep iterating. This is where player feedback comes in... taadaa.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You forgot the most important feature of all they have yet to implement. Proper and consistent hit registration. I hit enough lerks and skulks with shotties/lmgs that spilled enough blood to pump a hive, yet they are still alive. I swear its hard to tell the difference between a level 0/3 shotty/lmg.
ÒŗăNģёJoin Date: 2012-02-09Member: 144437Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
When the flamer is better it wont be such a problem, as of now its not worth the res to tech to flamer until late game where you have an abundance of res.
Comments
Hmm, I guess that makes sense from that angle. I was kind of thinking more about the mobile anti-building units in general and not so much a direct lerk-mutalisk analogy. I guess it exactly goes to the direction where the bbomb isn't exactly your explosive burst damage dealer it was in the gorge days.
Lerk bilebomb is comparatively meh ... you can't deliver the enough damage output to actually kill the marine base unless you wipe out all the marines. And if you can do that, then you don't need the bilebomb.
So ending the game now requires locking the marines down in base until you have enough Onoses to win. Which can take a while.
Lerk bilebomb is comparatively meh ... you can't deliver the enough damage output to actually kill the marine base unless you wipe out all the marines. And if you can do that, then you don't need the bilebomb.
So ending the game now requires locking the marines down in base until you have enough Onoses to win. Which can take a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally don't mind that - it's nice to see the Onos returned to a useful role. Once they fixed the hitboxes in NS1, HMGs made the Onos nearly useless.
What I DON'T like is the repair rate thing when a structure is all covered in bile, and mostly it's just the *feeling* of it. It's very weird to be repairing, then have it start constantly going down even when 2 people are repairing non-stop. Made me think bile or welding (or both) was bugged (or that it intentionally prevented all repairing) as there is no feedback whatsoever of what is going on. So personally I'd just prefer a change to the welding of bile bombed structures, even if it's just some kind of feedback to say "yes, it's working, but it's not enough!".
Lerks are easy enough to take down if you're aren't surrounded by people incapable of focusing fire or trapping a lerk in a room, so them having the relatively weak bile bomb is not OP to me. And again, their entire suite of abilities is harassment-oriented, so it's a perfect fit in my mind.
Also, a lot of people seem to be forgetting that neither side has all its features yet. Specifically, marines don't have their exosuit or mini-gun yet, and I imagine once they do the lerk problem will not exist in the same manner since a single marine will be able to take one down much more easily (especially if exosuit will remove gas damage... is that even confirmed yet?)
The problem is more that you enter a stage of the game where the marines can't win and the aliens has to wait for enough res to win. So the game is over, you are just waiting out the clock.
Either the marines needs a chance to get back from being pushed all the way down to their hive, with complete alien map domination, or the aliens need a faster way of killing the marine turtle at the end.
Any tech that the marines can research in the endgame that will be powerful enough to turn a full-alien map domination game is probably going to be too powerful in a normal game, so that way out seems closed.
Meaning that the aliens should have some way of ending the game faster.
+9000
Lerk bilebomb is comparatively meh ... you can't deliver the enough damage output to actually kill the marine base unless you wipe out all the marines. And if you can do that, then you don't need the bilebomb.
So ending the game now requires locking the marines down in base until you have enough Onoses to win. Which can take a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most of the time the Lerks decide the game, just had several games where marines turtled up, 4 Lerks go in each dropping 2 BB get out, repeat. Base was down in 2 min. No other classes were involved.
Even if you lose a lerk or 2 the IPs, sentrys and phasegate die on 8 BB hitting them.
To be honest BB on Lerk is more effective than on the gorge, and if you trained enough you don't even need to fully enter a base to place a BB in the midle of a room.
Even if you lose a lerk or 2 the IPs, sentrys and phasegate die on 8 BB hitting them.
To be honest BB on Lerk is more effective than on the gorge, and if you trained enough you don't even need to fully enter a base to place a BB in the midle of a room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now lets take 4 gorges :p. I doubt it would take 2 minutes to end the game. So much stalematitis in the current builds sigh.. :( I hope UWE are paying close attention to their game length stats.
No, they just like to make completely random changes for no rhyme or reason... :P
Obviously they're working on it and paying attention to, well, everything. There is only so much they can do at once, and balance is hardly the most important thing right now when the game isn't even feature complete yet (seeing how as soon as something else is added everyone will scream OP and they'll have to rebalance everything yet again).
Of course they will balance the hell out of the game (just like they'll increase performance) based on all sorts of game and player data/input, like they are already doing, before it is released. They haven't spent this long developing it just to force out in its current state.
Obviously they're working on it and paying attention to, well, everything. There is only so much they can do at once, and balance is hardly the most important thing right now when the game isn't even feature complete yet (seeing how as soon as something else is added everyone will scream OP and they'll have to rebalance everything yet again).
Of course they will balance the hell out of the game (just like they'll increase performance) based on all sorts of game and player data/input, like they are already doing, before it is released. They haven't spent this long developing it just to force out in its current state.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, this thing people keep saying about not being feature complete and balance was fine maybe 10-20 builds ago but its getting a bit old. Right now i think we should be a little bit realistic and realise theres really not alot of gameplay 'features' left to add (not balance tweaks or changes to existing design).
Let me list them for you.
- Exo
- Gorge buildings
- MC
- cyst abilities
Do any of these sound like they solve stalematitis / meaninglessly prolonged games? Or do they sound like they might infact contribute? The biggest marine feature in terms of firepower and staying power hasn't even been implemented, yet we are having horrible stalematitis especially in regular public games. It doesn't take much of a stretch of imagination.
Well ofcourse its obvious they will keep iterating. This is where player feedback comes in... taadaa.
I have to press SO MUCH Space key to fly around the map, because if i don't tapping it all the time, i get slow and fall to the ground.
Holding it, don't work well, just speed up more if i tapping it like a beast.
tbh im not sure. Exosuit with railguns/dual minigun seems to be the marine 'counter' to onos. I would be willing to bet that it will be immune to Onos stuns as well. Expensive or not, you have to reasonably assume that turtling marines will be using them.. :(
The problem with buildings is they get blown up by ARCS which is why any alien siege breaker has to be in large part a player based ability. Your right though, maybe UWE is planning to give gorge back bilebomb but in a structural form (mini whip or something).
The problem with buildings is they get blown up by ARCS which is why any alien siege breaker has to be in large part a player based ability. Your right though, maybe UWE is planning to give gorge back bilebomb but in a structural form (mini whip or something).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For about five minutes maybe, but once they die they won't be able to replace them. Marines hold out not by buying good weapons, but by sheer weight of numbers/picking up each other's guns.
You can't pick up an exosuit or minigun.
I have to press SO MUCH Space key to fly around the map, because if i don't tapping it all the time, i get slow and fall to the ground.
Holding it, don't work well, just speed up more if i tapping it like a beast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been tapping space rhythmically in every FPS I've played for like 15 years, so this is fine for me. Ask me again in another 10 years when I have a morphine drip hooked up to deal with the pain in my left hand, though...
RA3 capitalized on air power for that role, but there were also land based alternatives. The biggest I can think of was the Commando unit, which could hop into any troop transport, ride into a base (with the appropriate support), and start demolishing structures. More conventional examples included Mirage Tanks and IFVs.
TW3/Kane's Wrath had the Shatterer for GDI, Corrupter for Scrin, and Nod had the same staple Attack Bikes and Stealth Tanks they've always had to fill the role.
Keep going back and you'll keep seeing examples; fast-moving base killers are about as old as RTS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But isn't this just general tactics?
Let me list them for you.
- Exo
- Gorge buildings
- MC
- cyst abilities
Do any of these sound like they solve stalematitis / meaninglessly prolonged games? Or do they sound like they might infact contribute? The biggest marine feature in terms of firepower and staying power hasn't even been implemented, yet we are having horrible stalematitis especially in regular public games. It doesn't take much of a stretch of imagination.
Well ofcourse its obvious they will keep iterating. This is where player feedback comes in... taadaa.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You forgot the most important feature of all they have yet to implement. Proper and consistent hit registration. I hit enough lerks and skulks with shotties/lmgs that spilled enough blood to pump a hive, yet they are still alive. I swear its hard to tell the difference between a level 0/3 shotty/lmg.