Gorge Healspray Nerf
Blasphemy
Join Date: 2008-05-02 Member: 64201Members, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
Join Date: 2008-05-02 Member: 64201Members, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">Thoughts?</div>As of build 303, healspray frequency is lowered, and energy cost increased. What do you guys think of the change?
Personally, I find the change crippling and excruciating. I can barely keep my cysts or hydras alive, let alone myself. It was useless enough to try to run from battle with the nerfed slide, but now, retreat is pointless.
It feels so painful to wait so long to cast my heal, only to see it do so little. If the frequency absolutely must stay where it is, I suggest potency is buffed. I do not feel like an effective member of the team whenever I spend my 10 res to go gorge, and now feel as though I should save my res for another class.
Personally, I find the change crippling and excruciating. I can barely keep my cysts or hydras alive, let alone myself. It was useless enough to try to run from battle with the nerfed slide, but now, retreat is pointless.
It feels so painful to wait so long to cast my heal, only to see it do so little. If the frequency absolutely must stay where it is, I suggest potency is buffed. I do not feel like an effective member of the team whenever I spend my 10 res to go gorge, and now feel as though I should save my res for another class.
Comments
Maybe increase the potency for structure healing?
Why? Nobody plays gorge in pubs, and if they do it's never to heal teammates.
And if we're making Team Fortress analogies, the gorge was great in ns1 / early ns2 <i>because </i>it was the medic and the engineer. There's no reason those roles have to be separate (or one has to be completely squashed out of the game) when you only have 5 lifeforms to work with (not 9).
ehh... buffed with more abilities, sure. but buff healing? no way, it was already excessive. three marines could be firing lmgs non stop at a few hydras that a gorge is healing and it takes MINUTES to bring it down. that's too much. the opposite doesn't occur with turrets.
did you really always get the gorge in one rifle mag? cause i rarely did, even if never missing a shot - if he was sliding away and healing himself. (also keep in mind skulks die in only 10 rounds, and lerks are three times as expensive as the gorge and die just as easily, and gorgie isn't even supposed to be a "tough" lifeform.)
all this being said, do i think the adjustment went a little too far? yeah.
so lets find the happy medium!
what do you suggest?
so lets find the happy medium!
what do you suggest?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>well let's start with the basics:</b>
where do the "25%" and "increased energy cost" come from? where do we get those numbers, and what practical difference do they make compared to the old numbers? what problem are the changes designed to solve? ("excessive" is subjective, and the sample size of games played/players playing is way too small to make judgements like that)
Obviously they make healing slower and more expensive, but how does it affect combat? What situations change, and how?
I hate to offer only questions, but you've gotta start somewhere!
and with how crappy bellyslide is you can't escape his rifle butt either! all these cool mechanics are coming together at last.
Sounds excellent. Support class should not runaway anyway if hes combat healing.
Changes were made to nerf "onos + gorge" combo which btw provided 200 heal per tick negating just about any damage.
The real problem i think with onos + gorge is onos being a complete stun machine being able to charge stomp with no movement penalties etc. and having stomp go through the air, walls, and over ledges. Interested to see how this change turns out with adren though.
My suggestion is keep the higher energy cost, return healspray speed to its previous speed, and reduce self healing ammount by a bit so you can still get the burst healing in but with a lower potential and with lower personal survivability.
With the Gorge's healspray nerfed, there's no reason to play the class. Mini-Cysts cost more, have less health and less range than Cysts. Hydras are a giant res sink that don't do much early game and are useless mid-late, you're better off putting that res into saving for other life forms. Building acceleration is nothing compared to catalyze. No bilebomb.
The Onos being too powerful too early shouldn't be solved by making another class worse.
The Onos being too powerful too early shouldn't be solved by making another class worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After playing a few more times, I agree with this completely. Hydras are expensive and do little damage.
Then increase the energy cost of heal spray, or increase shotgun damage back to a 2 shot against fade. The rof decrease is class breaking.. it really is. I have to say that once again the gorge has gotten the short end of the stick due to problems elsewhere in the game.
I love playing the gorge but i am having a hard time now seeing what use i can be.
1. Hydras, i can have 5 of them up at a choke point only for a rine to wander up with his friend in tow. "Oh look hydras, arent they cute?" "Yeah we should get some for our appartment". I mean, i've spent 75 pres on that and they just wander by. Rines could spent 75 pres on 5 lots of mines and we know the amount of damage those things can do.
2. Heal spray, it was about the only useful thing i could do, spent my time looking up the ass of an Onos or 2.
Before this i was about to ask for a buff to Hydra damage as a gorge should be able to hold off 2/3 rines with 4/5 or so well placed Hydras. GL/Arc smashed my hydras to bits, as they should, but prior to that hydras should be a good defense.
Please can we undo this and buff hydra dmg or reduce their cost as currently they are laughable.
I will see how it is now when i get the chance to play.
The healspray was a bit too powerful against marines.
After i read it i think what i always think in the latest beta builds:
<!--quoteo(post=1921229:date=Apr 3 2012, 04:43 AM:name=Blasphemy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blasphemy @ Apr 3 2012, 04:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It feels so painful to wait so long to cast my heal, only to see it do so little. If the frequency absolutely must stay where it is,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did not play 203, but i don't want play the gorge anymore, he is already so helpless and die so fast and now he can't even heal very good.
But i give it a try today, im sure it will suck, because it already was like you said "painful to wait so long" now more reduced...meh
<!--quoteo(post=1921428:date=Apr 3 2012, 03:23 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Apr 3 2012, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Imo, the nerf is where it should be. Great job.
The healspray was a bit too powerful against marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"too powerful against marines"? This is a joke right?
Medpack is powerful but gorge healing?
The gorge die about 1 or max 2 shotgun hits.
and his healing spray take a while to kill one marine and you said its too powerful? lol!
The gorge's hydras and cysts have little influence on the game, and the spit attack only kills unlucky or afk marines.
Anyone who plays gorge ends up with very little res towards the end of the game so they aren't able to help then either.
So unless you need to distract one marine with two hydras at the start of the game, there's no point playing gorge, is there?
What happens a lot of the time is you wait around the corner - doing nothing - until an alien comes for healing. If they're badly hurt they wont wait ages for a gorge to heal them they'll just go back to the hive. That's if they remember gorges can heal. Most people ignore gorges in my experience....the lerk used to be in this situation didn't it. I suppose it's harder for the devs to create these classes that don't have a fixed role.
and nerfing heal spray just takes its ONLY usefull ability and removes it
i think healspray itself is fine, i just wonder why a gorge has more health and armor than a fade,
why would a 10 res life form be more resilliant than a 50 res life form -
whats the goal of the gorge anyway (builder? no thats the com? ) medic? seems like thats what structures are gonna do ie the Com again
not sure how a gorge will ever be usefull
Medpack is powerful but gorge healing?
The gorge die about 1 or max 2 shotgun hits.
and his healing spray take a while to kill one marine and you said its too powerful? lol!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to mention a single lvl 0 marine still has an advantage over a vanilla Gorge with a single hydra helping him out; if the marine sucks at aiming a commander can simply shield or give him a medkit and instantly bring back the minute of continuous Gorge/hydra damage that it spent trying to hold or defend a spot.
<!--quoteo(post=1921548:date=Apr 3 2012, 02:17 PM:name=NecropsY)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NecropsY @ Apr 3 2012, 02:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921548"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think healspray itself is fine, i just wonder why a gorge has more health and armor than a fade,
why would a 10 res life form be more resilliant than a 50 res life form -
whats the goal of the gorge anyway (builder? no thats the com? ) medic? seems like thats what structures are gonna do ie the Com again
not sure how a gorge will ever be usefull<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For me the Gorge was a heavy defensive/support unit, very useful towards fades and skulks (or lerks) that needed healing while you could position a Hydra or two on the walls alongside one on the ground to hide behind.
I can see why some people are angry at how a Gorge/Skulk combo can basically be invincible early on; though it does support 'teamwork' and helped out in a pub game when a group of skulks and myself as a Gorge broke a heavy hold on Data-core. The skulks had a health-benefit over protecting a vanilla Gorge, and the Gorge had skulks as a meatshield that enabled the four skulks to take on the half-a-dozen marines in that area.
So I haven't played this update yet, does it basically turn the Gorge heal into the slow Crag heal that can barely heal structures or units on its own?
Maybe increase the potency for structure healing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or just directly nerf the effect on the onos and put it back where it was for everything else?
Healing aliens in combat is generally not effective, the only time it is effective is on the onos, so nerfing it for the onos simply brings it in line with the general rule for the rest of the aliens.
Healing aliens in combat is generally not effective, the only time it is effective is on the onos, so nerfing it for the onos simply brings it in line with the general rule for the rest of the aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
voice of reason
wouldn't be fair to just affect one lifeform. make healspray like alcohol. the bigger you are, the less potent it is.
While I think the gorge should be able to keep up the defences he lays, it shouldn't be doable without assistance. The gorge should only be able to hold such a position for a short period of time, before desperately requiring back up.