Cyst spam has to go

Wolpertinger

Introduce a minimum distance between cysts. Or make it impossible to place cysts in a radius around Marines and Marine structures. Or introduce a time-between-placing-cysts that increases the more cysts you place after on another.

PsiWarp

Commander Cysts in B201 was supposed to have a 4 seconds build time, but somebody forgot to change that 1 to 4 :P

Mini-Cysts work as intended. However, you don't see many Gorges spamming them down a hallway~

Aaron_Merric

How about some type of active marine power node raises cost of cyst placement or doesnt allow cyst placement. The biggest problem I have with cyst spam is the ability of the aliens to just wipe out all your mine defenses with a few cysts.

john_b

<!--quoteo(post=1917897:date=Mar 25 2012, 07:01 PM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Mar 25 2012, 07:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1917897"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Commander Cysts in B201 was supposed to have a 4 seconds build time, but somebody forgot to change that 1 to 4 :P

Mini-Cysts work as intended. However, you don't see many Gorges spamming them down a hallway~<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Judging by your avatar, it seems like you are a master Gorge-smith.

PsiWarp

<!--quoteo(post=1919101:date=Mar 28 2012, 02:35 PM:name=john_b)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (john_b @ Mar 28 2012, 02:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919101"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Judging by your avatar, it seems like you are a master Gorge-smith.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

More of a budding Gorge who knows his Mini-Cysts :P

But yeah, at least Cyst spam is not as bad as infestation decal spam (prototype DI first patch, good times)

rantology

<a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Drakuu/cystspam.png" target="_blank">relevant </a>=o


Would it be so bad if they switched cysts to T-Res and Drifters to P-Res (maybe increased the cost of a drifter to like 5 or something?)

Actually that wouldn't help in the mid/end game when aliens have a lot of res... I can't really think of a good solution. Although I thought I read on the Dev Tracker that Flame Thrower was getting buffed but I don't recall if it was going to help with cysts/infestation.

PsiWarp

Haha Rant, love that image.

Since they are doing away with PRes for Gorge buildings, why not move Cysts to TRes? Also, the Flamethrower changes as I recall: burn away Umbra and Spore + stop Whip from whacking nades.

Floodinator

Changin cysts to Tres is a BAD idea IMO.

Reason is simple. In the early game the marines could just kill the cysts all the time delaying the whole alien economy. The game would change to hunt the cysts only.
You can kill a cysts faster than an RT generates 1 Tres.

But I see the problem whit the spam and the most simple solution is to increase the cysts cost to 3. Doesn't sound alot but it is (1/3 less cysts).

Also <b>WHY</b> do minicyst cost 3 Pres and a mature cysts only 2?
Yeah gorge can place it anywhere but a com cysts has more HP and infest range.

rantology

But its kind of the opposite atm, you say cysts would be too important if they were T-Res, but atm they are really not important at all, too easily replaceable for great advantages like hive sight, heals, marine slow and early warning nets. All for very cheap and infinitely replaceable from mid to late game... the only point in which they are not spammable is early game at the start.

Floodinator

<!--quoteo(post=1919166:date=Mar 29 2012, 01:01 AM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Mar 29 2012, 01:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919166"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But its kind of the opposite atm, you say cysts would be too important if they were T-Res, but atm they are really not important at all, too easily replaceable for great advantages like hive sight, heals, marine slow and early warning nets. All for very cheap and infinitely replaceable from mid to late game... the only point in which they are not spammable is early game at the start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But going in the other extreme is also not a good solution.
So increasing the costs ist the easiest way --> gorge already pays 3.

If you read the Design Log you would know that they are thinking about things the aliencom can cast (Alien Tree, Spikes from ground) that may cost Pres. Would sort the problem out, because the kham can spend his res in other things also, not like now only for cysts.

_Necro_

Yeah, increase cost of cysts for kham to 3 and decrease cost of gorge cysts to 2 or 1. This way, there is also more teamplay between kham and gorge again.

cH40z-Lord

<!--quoteo(post=1919271:date=Mar 29 2012, 10:44 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Mar 29 2012, 10:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, increase cost of cysts for kham to 3 and decrease cost of gorge cysts to 2 or 1. This way, there is also more teamplay between kham and gorge again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That would be something I am really looking forward too as the range of the mini-cysts has been dramatically decreased. On Mineshaft you need to spend all your 25 pres to cover a SINGLE extractor (at cavern) with cysts.

The good thing is that the range of the mini-cysts finally fits the size of the model, the bad part is that Gorges now think twice before placing a cyst in early game if you can't drop a few hydras next to it to protect a door/hallway - something more "important" than wasting all your pres just to wait ages to be able to get active in building again...

It could be possible that we need to get used to a new synergy between Gorge(s) and Khamm ( which is always great in ways it's worth it ).


Let's see what further patches brings in, I'm almost excited and really looking forward to them! :)

swalk

Increase cost of cyst for commander to 3.
Add more alien comm pres sinks. I would still suggest umbra/fury/cloak/etc.
They directly support the team(medpack,ammo,cata equalents).

Solitario

agree, atm its too easy, too cheap and too fast, how you can expand the DI/creep

LV426-Colonist

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cyst spam has to go<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This.

Xarius

<!--quoteo(post=1919271:date=Mar 29 2012, 03:44 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Mar 29 2012, 03:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, increase cost of cysts for kham to 3 and decrease cost of gorge cysts to 2 or 1. This way, there is also more teamplay between kham and gorge again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This. And lower starting p.res to 15.

Molecule

What if they removed cysts from Kham and made it a gorge only ability, reworking the cost, range, etc.

This would involve the gorge a lot more rather than it just being a side role. It would also force more team play on the alien side, ie aliens protecting the gorge while he spreads cysts and would also prevent the retarded infestation spam into marine held areas.

Khams currently spam infestattion under the marines feet, into marine bases, etc. If cysts were gorge only, it would prevent all these issues. The gorge would have to run into the marine base to spam there and would die instantly. All in all it would result in smarter infestation play from the aliens.

Omega_K2

Solution here:

<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117523" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=117523</a>

Floodinator

The easiest solution had flayra. 8s to build, and they start with 1HP till full HP when grown.
So that each cysts that gets spawned infront of a marine kan be killed by less than 5 shots.

Making the cysts costs dynamic and increase with numbers of cysts is not as good as it first sounds. If a com will infest the mainhive with 5 cysts or more to get all corners covered, or wan'ts to build more stable cystsroutes to a RT ( instead of .... He does ::::) so that it can't be cutoff to fast and keeping the rines a bit longer away from the RT, he needs to play alot more for cysts just because he want's saver routes and the whole alienterritory covered so a marine can't just sneak in and kill a upgrade chamber or putting a PG up.

The idea with gorge only placing cysts is worse! That will mean the Aliens would need 2 players that first go com and the other one gorge from the beginning. If that gorge dies and the other team mates are onos, fade, lerk or com, and the ex gorge has only 2 res aliens are ######. This system would always that 1 players has to be a very very defensive gorge that isn't allowed to takes risks and the com is hes master that comands a player around while he needs to wait till the gorge dropped all the cysts to the RT then he needs to wait even longer till the gorge connected the next RT only to see his gorge getting killed by a marine because he had to go out in a front zone that isn't protected and can be surprised every second.
A sideefect is that alien expansion speed will drastically reduce (around 60%-100% slower with 1 gorge).
And the worst it makes alien expansion dependent form 4 things (Com, Gorge, Cysts, Drifters) instead of 3.
This 4 things get splitted between the com and the gorge (com->drifters; gorge-> Cysts) instead that only one players was needed for this job.

swalk

<!--quoteo(post=1921972:date=Apr 5 2012, 01:01 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Apr 5 2012, 01:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921972"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This. And lower starting p.res to 15.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is a bad suggestion.
If you lower starting p.res for both teams to 15, marines would get the upper hand as soon as they hit 20 res(get shotguns), and aliens would have to wait to 30 res to awnser to it with lerks.
With the close spawns it would make this even more obvious.

Xarius

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The easiest solution had flayra. 8s to build, and they start with 1HP till full HP when grown.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree this is a good solution, but it's primarily a solution to early alien expansion being too fast, not cysts being spammed. The khamm will just need more things to invest p.res in, he can spam cysts because he has no other p.res sinks. Once some of the new Khamm features come into the game this could change drastically.

Ybarra

Cyst spams are pretty cool, especially when the Alien comm runs in half a dozen or so whips.

<a href="http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578952027388271647/B6FC8F1F53EA4DB1EBD7528B7B03C51222E1A161/" target="_blank">http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57895202...03C51222E1A161/</a>

Rover

Though it wouldn't solve everything, how about powered areas supposedly having an electromagnetic field that interferes with new cyst placement? It wouldn't solve everything, but it promotes teamplay and prevents frustration.

Xarius

Having to bite every powernode as well as the RTs sounds frustrating to be honest, they take a while to take down but go back up in like 5 seconds, it's pointless.

Rover

I don't really understand why powernodes were changed to go up in a matter of seconds to begin with. They're already free.

Alternatively, make cysts grow/expand very slowly (and start at low hp?) in powered areas?

Wolpertinger

So... yeah... Cyst Spam.

Pretty much still here. More than ever.

Cee Colon Slash

I think when you see cyst spam, the game is basically over... ie., cysts spamming into the marine base?

When I comm the aliens I find I can't drop cysts as fast as I need to. It's actually useful when I don't have enough energy, because it means I can turn my attention back to building structures and researching evolutions. If I could spam cysts as fast as I -wanted- to, I probably would do nothing but...

Hunter.S.T.

see what you think of my idea for sorting out cyst spam:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=118870" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=118870</a>